Abellio Greater Anglia Class 755s (Regional Trains)

[hwl]

If you do some calculations based on the length info in the Stadler 755 datasheet here - https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feabmu0916e.pdf - the 755 car lengths are approx 15.7m for the intermediate passenger cars, 6.7m for the power car, and 21m for the end cars.

The 745 datasheet is here - https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/feaemu0818e.pdf

So 755:
Driving cars 21.31m
Intermediate cars: 15.70m
Power car: 6.69m

745:
Driving Cars 21.31m
Intermediate cars: 19.40m

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes. The blank space on vehicles 6 and 7 has electronics etc in it. As I understand it, they are 2 6 car flirts, back to back with the cabs deleted from one end of each set. I saw a YouTube video a while ago proclaiming them to be the longest flirts in the world.

I believe that's right. The only other longish ones I know of are the PKP IC ones (which being high-floor are quite like ours) but those are only 8-section.

The SBB EC250 sets come close (11-section) but while they are built on a platform similar to a FLIRT and look like one they are actually a higher-speed product known as the SMILE. With a 160mph top speed, these could be a good bet for HS2 (allowing level access on both classic and HS platforms) if the top speed is reduced.

 

[hwl]

Yes. The blank space on vehicles 6 and 7 has electronics etc in it. As I understand it, they are 2 6 car flirts, back to back with the cabs deleted from one end of each set. I saw a YouTube video a while ago proclaiming them to be the longest flirts in the world.

The drawing show cars 6+7 as the same lenghts as 2-5 and 8-11 but with the space above the motor bogies used for traction electronics and no windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The drawing show cars 6+7 as the same lenghts as 2-5 and 8-11 but with the space above the motor bogies used for traction electronics and no windows.

Yeah, they have the same "bit behind the cab" as cab vehicles but omit the actual cab moulding.

 

[Carlgoss]

I wonder how many millions of pounds worth of new rolling stock is sitting in the Norfolk countryside getting covered by smoke smuts from a steam loco......! If you have time, watch 3 and half minutes of FLIRT after FLIRT after FLIRT.........

Yea Gods! Classic piece of film Alan! And they've got to put 1000 miles on each set before revenue service?!! Sooty revenue service as you say!
745 12 car in the siding alongside platform 1 at Norwich this morning waiting to head out on a test run. Nice to see them out and about.

 

[ac6000cw]

To summarise, a 745 has four motor bogies (at the outer ends of each half-set), and a 755 two motor bogies (at the outer ends of the set), with the traction electronics for each motor bogie inside the body above it. So rather more like a 'loco' arrangement than a typical EMU with the traction electronics under the floor.

Does anyone know where the main transformer is fitted (the pantograph is on a non-motored car)?

 

[rdlover777]

if it's the same construct as 755's then driving cars are 20m, intermediates are 16m

so a 12 car set will be approx 200m...roughly equivalent to a cl90+9*mk3+dvt set in terms of seating.

They *average* 19.7 m in length - a 12 car 745 is 236.6 m long over the couplers.

(based on the info attached to this post - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...adler-flirt-trains.148431/page-2#post-3027536 )

Oh that's good then, because I had a crazy idea for a Open-access operator ordering 745 based units fitted with 3rd rail gear and HS1 equipment to compete with SE's 395s

 

[TheEdge]

Does anyone know where the main transformer is fitted (the pantograph is on a non-motored car)?

Not sure, this is pure guess but where the two half sets meet the end 1/4 (maybe a bit less) of those vehicles is windowless and ends up looking a bit like the power pack on the BMUs, so my guess is there.

 

[ac6000cw]

Oh that's good then, because I had a crazy idea for a Open-access operator ordering 745 based units fitted with 3rd rail gear and HS1 equipment to compete with SE's 395s

The basic FLIRT design is only offered for up to 200 km/h, so it's not really fast enough for HS1 (the 395's can do 225 km/h)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The basic FLIRT design is only offered for up to 200 km/h, so it's not really fast enough for HS1 (the 395's can do 225 km/h)

The SMILE, which is FLIRT-based, would suit though.

 

[AS43]

To summarise, a 745 has four motor bogies (at the outer ends of each half-set), and a 755 two motor bogies (at the outer ends of the set), with the traction electronics for each motor bogie inside the body above it. So rather more like a 'loco' arrangement than a typical EMU with the traction electronics under the floor.

Does anyone know where the main transformer is fitted (the pantograph is on a non-motored car)?

There's no main transformer as such, each power car has its own transformer mounted on the underframe.

 

[rdlover777]

The basic FLIRT design is only offered for up to 200 km/h, so it's not really fast enough for HS1 (the 395's can do 225 km/h)

I've seen 92s using HS1 during the day, infact, the other day i saw one light engine at Medway Viaduct, and they do 87 mph

 

[hooverboy]

We travelled on a Flirt between Wymondham and Ely last Saturday morning (09.50) in a 4-seater bay. We were very impressed. Didn't use the "facilities" Incidentally, we were at the carriage end next to the power car but you couldn't hear any noise from it.

they are very quiet on the inside! I was very impressed.

on the outside they sound like proper trains when pulling off!...I like them a lot!

for me it was the acceleration that was the best feature....way faster than sprinters, you can actually feel a bit of g force when pulling away and you're belting it down the track in no time at all.
I don't think they were being fully used in anger either...I get the feeling there is a LOT more in the tank if properly thrashed.(yes 2600BHP for a 4 car 150/pacer at 80m long and 100tonnes is a bit excessive!)
I think they would beat the top+tail 37 short set in a race quite decisively.!
the 3 car sets would probably keep up!

 

[ashkeba]

I've seen 92s using HS1 during the day, infact, the other day i saw one light engine at Medway Viaduct, and they do 87 mph

Occasional paths is different to running regular services with them, though!

 

[hooverboy]

Not sure, this is pure guess but where the two half sets meet the end 1/4 (maybe a bit less) of those vehicles is windowless and ends up looking a bit like the power pack on the BMUs, so my guess is there.

I would have thought transformer is on the motor car.
less power dissipation.

 

[ac6000cw]

There's no main transformer as such, each power car has its own transformer mounted on the underframe.

Ah, so there is a 25kV bus line running along the set. Makes the traction equipment very modular (and Stadler do make a point about 'redundancy' in the traction equipment in the datasheet).

 

[dk1]

Looks like 418 has suffered the camera fault yet again. 0809 ex-Cambridge will start Ely but rest of diagram commencing 0959 fast Yarmouths are all caped as no other option (except standby buses) are available.

 

[Antman]

Really daft question, but can the central power car be engineered not with a diesel prime mover, but a very large battery pack, so it is effectively a battery loco? Surely 15-20 tons of battery or whatever delivers a lot of range....and can charge on the 25kv?

Or just not enough to get down the various off grid bits (and back!).

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Really daft question, but can the central power car be engineered not with a diesel prime mover, but a very large battery pack, so it is effectively a battery loco? Surely 15-20 tons of battery or whatever delivers a lot of range....and can charge on the 25kv?

Or just not enough to get down the various off grid bits (and back!).

I guess so, because TFW are having a tri-mode version which is diesel, electric and battery.

 

[dk1]

Really daft question, but can the central power car be engineered not with a diesel prime mover, but a very large battery pack, so it is effectively a battery loco? Surely 15-20 tons of battery or whatever delivers a lot of range....and can charge on the 25kv?

Or just not enough to get down the various off grid bits (and back!).

Yes it has been designed for conversion or removal altogether. It's just not suitable for the routes these currently serve.

 

[Class455]

Are the Norwich in 90 services still being worked by 90's and MK3's?

 

[pompeyfan]

Looks like 418 has suffered the camera fault yet again. 0809 ex-Cambridge will start Ely but rest of diagram commencing 0959 fast Yarmouths are all caped as no other option (except standby buses) are available.

Why can’t the guard dispatch? Wasn’t that the whole point of the agreement?

 

[trebor79]

Does seem odd that the guard can't do the doors and despatch. In fact I witnessed a guard being trained and practising doing just that (and a bleep bleep to the driver) on Thursday.
Perhaps they aren't yet cleared for degraded operations without an instructor on board?

 

[dk1]

Why can’t the guard dispatch? Wasn’t that the whole point of the agreement?

They will be able to to get the unit back to Norwich but it will then have to be taken out of traffic. The driver will release at stations before they take over.

 

[dk1]

Does seem odd that the guard can't do the doors and despatch. In fact I witnessed a guard being trained and practising doing just that (and a bleep bleep to the driver) on Thursday.
Perhaps they aren't yet cleared for degraded operations without an instructor on board?

All guards are trained to take over during failure of equipment until such time as the unit can be removed from service.

 

[trebor79]

Really daft question, but can the central power car be engineered not with a diesel prime mover, but a very large battery pack, so it is effectively a battery loco? Surely 15-20 tons of battery or whatever delivers a lot of range....and can charge on the 25kv?

Or just not enough to get down the various off grid bits (and back!).

The very best lithium ion batteries have an energy density of approx 230Wh per kg. So 20 tonnes of battery will provide 4.6MWh of storage.
Without knowing the fuel capacity I of the diesel version, I can't work out an equivalent range, but it's unlikely to be practical. The diesel engines have a max output of just under 2MW. Let's say they average 50% output. So our battery can store around 4 hours worth of power. Maybe just about enough for a round trip Norwich Cambridge and return.
Charging would be interesting. You wouldn't be able to pull more than about 5MW off the overhead, so it's going to take an hour to charge.
And that's assuming there's space for 20te of batteries, which once packaged with control electronic and thermal management is is going to take a lot of space.

FWIW, I don't believe batteries are the future for trains or cars. For sure there will be some small number of trains run on batteries, bit for lost applications it won't make economic or operational sense.

 

[trebor79]

All guards are trained to take over during failure of equipment until such time as the unit can be removed from service.

Ah ok that makes sense. I wonder if the "until the unit can be removed from service" bit will be revisited if the cameras prove to be unreliable.

 

[pompeyfan]

Ah ok that makes sense. I wonder if the "until the unit can be removed from service" bit will be revisited if the cameras prove to be unreliable.

Agreed, seems odd that the unit can’t continue all day with guard dispatch, but hey ho.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Agreed, seems odd that the unit can’t continue all day with guard dispatch, but hey ho.

I'm not sure they will prove unreliable as its tried and tested tech, used in many applications, probably just that one camera which may ultimately be replaced

 

[dk1]

755418 has consistently proved problematic with this issue & has been removed from traffic on a few occasions now. Patience is running rather thin from GA with it. It was management that decided they didn't want guards included in door operation except in emergency & that's exactly what we've got & have to adhere to. Simply cancelling trains is not an emergency.

I think most of us expect the stance against conductor operation (closing doors only) to change & things are very fluid & alter on a week to week basis. Time will tell.