Window alignment: can it be improved?

[tom73]

So some of Japan's trains have airline style windows lining up perfectly with the seating.

Any reason why we can't have this?

 

[mmh]

So some of Japan's trains have airline style windows lining up perfectly with the seating. Any reason why we can't have this?

It's easily done if you're willing to accept porthole / aeroplane style windows.

We have managed it on a few trains with ordinary windows - e.g. class 158s as new, and some areas in some class 377 subclasses.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Are you referring to the Shinkansen/Bullet Trains or ‘conventional’ services?

As a general comment ‘airline style’ windows are very poor unless you are sitting next to them. The Bullet Trains have 3+2 seating IIRC. Pacers offer a much better view.

My experience in Japan was quite a few years ago but most passengers seemed to be focused on reading material or electronic devices.

 

[Terry Tait]

Easy to achieve, just remake air con Mk 2s to modern standards.

 

[yorksrob]

I think you could have an arrangement where the window is long enough for two airline seats. Both seats would get a window view, although the rear one would be slightly deeper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you could have an arrangement where the window is long enough for two airline seats. Both seats would get a window view, although the rear one would be slightly deeper.

The key is having the spacing the same as a Standard class bay (or pair of airline seats). The original Class 158 layout is just about perfect. This has a bay alternating with a pair of airline seats, all fully aligned. Replace 2 bays with 3 rows of airline seats for priority seating.

 

[Dougal2345]

Could the pillars between the windows be made narrower or fewer in number using modern materials?

Possible 'trivia' question: what modern main line train design, anywhere in the world, has the widest windows?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could the pillars between the windows be made narrower or fewer in number using modern materials?

Possible 'trivia' question: what modern main line train design, anywhere in the world, has the widest windows?

Depends what is meant by widest. In the UK the Class 700 has 2 very wide windows in the centre section instead of the more normal 4 narrower ones. In Switzerland there are/were some scenic-line EW I/II coaches which have had 2 or 3 windows cut together, which are the widest I've seen in terms of measurement. But you can see out best from the dedicated panoramic coaches which have narrower but bay-aligned windows that curve round the roof.

 

[yorksrob]

The key is having the spacing the same as a Standard class bay (or pair of airline seats). The original Class 158 layout is just about perfect. This has a bay alternating with a pair of airline seats, all fully aligned. Replace 2 bays with 3 rows of airline seats for priority seating.

Indeed. I suppose that the trick is to have two airline seats take up the same length as a single facing bay, then you can have more or less any configuration of airline and facing seating desired.

 

[Envoy]

Surely, the 170’s have the biggest windows due to have thin pillars.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. I suppose that the trick is to have two airline seats take up the same length as a single facing bay, then you can have more or less any configuration of airline and facing seating desired.

Actually, the Class 158 layout is cleverer than that. It recognises that due to the lack of wasted space between seat backs (don't say "luggage", nobody ever puts it there) that two rows of airline seats take up slightly less space than one table bay. So the windows are slightly smaller or closer together than they would be for a purely tables layout, and the table bay takes up a window width plus both pillars, and the pair of airline rows just the window width.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely, the 170’s have the biggest windows due to have thin pillars.

Depends what you mean by widest. They have the narrowest pillars, but not the widest windows.

 

[TRAX]

what modern main line train design, anywhere in the world, has the widest windows?

This could be one of your winners, if not the winner, with 50 % of glazing per side (french Z 50000):

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have been on many of those Z50000 and I agree - they are by far the best of all the modern generation of trains anywhere. I'd love to see a UK loading gauge version.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can keep that. 3+2 with fixed armrests, and that colour scheme!

I'll take a Pacer instead.

 

[Dougal2345]

Do pillars have to be wider in stock designed for higher speed running though, to improve crashworthiness, or could say a Class 800 or a Eurostar 374 have had thinner pillars if the designers had wanted it?

 

[yorksrob]

Actually, the Class 158 layout is cleverer than that. It recognises that due to the lack of wasted space between seat backs (don't say "luggage", nobody ever puts it there) that two rows of airline seats take up slightly less space than one table bay. So the windows are slightly smaller or closer together than they would be for a purely tables layout, and the table bay takes up a window width plus both pillars, and the pair of airline rows just the window width.

I've never noticed that. I'll have to look more closely next time I'm on one.

This could be one of your winners, if not the winner, with 50 % of glazing per side (french Z 50000):
View attachment 68016
View attachment 68017

Those seats look very unforgiving on soft posteriors !

 

[TRAX]

Those seats look very unforgiving on soft posteriors !

We french have less sensitive arses than British folk, and have understood that soft seats are bad for long-term back health, so we prefer seats to be designed in shape rather than in texture. Still confortable and healthier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We french have less sensitive arses than British folk, and have understood that soft seats are bad for long-term back health, so we prefer seats to be designed in shape rather than in texture. Still confortable and healthier.

Interesting, as at this very moment I'm on a TGV and the seat is far softer than any recent UK design.

 

[yorksrob]

We french have less sensitive arses than British folk, and have understood that soft seats are bad for long-term back health, so we prefer seats to be designed in shape rather than in texture. Still confortable and healthier.

I'm not sure that soft seats necessarily are that bad per se. I think that you can have a soft base, so long as the back has a sufficient bulge to support the upper back.

 

[TRAX]

All your body needs support. Soft cushioned seats don’t give you enough.

 

[davart]

The French interior looks interesting.

Great open airy feeling to it. Are they UV lamps underneath the seats? Perhaps they're there to reduce bacteria and odours?

The fixed armrests are a good idea. Helps to keep people in their seat and not spreading themselves onto the adjacent person.

The colour scheme is a bit lairy but as long as it's hard-wearing, it doesn't matter.

Hard seats aren't a problem as long as they're ergonomic so to speak.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Great open airy feeling to it. Are they UV lamps underneath the seats? Perhaps they're there to reduce bacteria and odours?

No, it's mood lighting; cycles through several different colours - same with the ceiling lights.

 

[TRAX]

The French interior looks interesting.

Great open airy feeling to it. Are they UV lamps underneath the seats? Perhaps they're there to reduce bacteria and odours?

These are ambiance lights, they are either blue or off.

The fixed armrests are a good idea. Helps to keep people in their seat and not spreading themselves onto the adjacent person.

I agree.

Hard seats aren't a problem as long as they're ergonomic so to speak.

Absolutely.

 

[yorksrob]

All your body needs support. Soft cushioned seats don’t give you enough.

I've sat on a soft cushioned seat all day and felt fine, whereas hard bottomed seats have me fidgeting after two hours.

I like the moquette on the pictured units though. Ours has gotten way too boring.

 

[TRAX]

You feel fine now, you’ll see in a few years or decades on the long-term.

 

[johnnychips]

The French interior looks interesting.

Great open airy feeling to it. Are they UV lamps underneath the seats? Perhaps they're there to reduce bacteria and odours?

Rather racist or stereotypical

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm intrigued as to why people seem to love a layout which is 3+2 with narrow seats and fixed armrests!?

 

[yorksrob]

You feel fine now, you’ll see in a few years or decades on the long-term.

I'm already in the long term. Comfortable train cushions are very low on my lifestyle risk factors.

 

[TRAX]

Rather racist or stereotypical

This wasn’t his point, but he’d be right... french transport is unbelievably disgusting and smelly.

I'm intrigued as to why people seem to love a layout which is 3+2 with narrow seats and fixed armrests!?

The seats in this train are wide enough, you don’t even feel the armrests on your hips When you’re sitting.
Sure 3+2 seating in British trains is horrible and uncomfortable, but bear in mind that this french train is 3.06 m wide, so it’s plenty of space for 3+2 seating and a wide corridor in between. Sitting in the middle seat of a triple-bench on this train, you don’t touch the passengers sitting on your sides.