SouthEastern franchise direct award through to 1 April 2020 (& franchise competition terminated)

[hwl]

However the Minister can remove that constraint with a literal stroke of a pen though.

TfL do a lot of bond financing.
If they borrow any more they get a credit downgrade and end up paying more to borrow...

 

[HSTEd]

TfL do a lot of bond financing.
If they borrow any more they get a credit downgrade and end up paying more to borrow...

Except that is not how that is going to work.

TfL's debt is de-facto backed by the full faith of the British Government.
Unless you think they would ever let TfL default?

There is essentially zero chance of TfL ever defaulting no matter how much they borrow, so their credit rating is essentially the same as the states.

 

[rdlover777]

Nope, just some 375/377s that currently berth in the sidings adjacent to the Hitachi depot will need somewhere else to berth overnight, nothing more to it than that.

what i wanna know is why are Thamelink trains being stabled in Ashford now, last i checked, there is no Thameslink route to Ashford

 

[hwl]

Except that is not how that is going to work.

TfL's debt is de-facto backed by the full faith of the British Government.
Unless you think they would ever let TfL default?

There is essentially zero chance of TfL ever defaulting no matter how much they borrow, so their credit rating is essentially the same as the states.

Except is it lower than the UK's.

 

[HSTEd]

Except is it lower than the UK's.

Not by a substantial margin.
Fitch puts the UK at AA with a negative watch, and TfL at AA- with a negative watch.

And if the bond issuing becomes an issue they can always just go the PWLB or similar body that the Minister can also create with the stroke of a pen.

 

[hwl]

what i wanna know is why are Thamelink trains being stabled in Ashford now, last i checked, there is no Thameslink route to Ashford

There will be, Thameslink is only 20 of 24tph peak currently.
Cambridge - Maidstone with some extensions to Ashford are the services being stabled at Ashford.

 

[hwl]

Not by a substantial margin.
Fitch puts the UK at AA with a negative watch, and TfL at AA- with a negative watch.

And if the bond issuing becomes an issue they can always just go the PWLB or similar body that the Minister can also create with the stroke of a pen.

They have already used PWLB and EIB (now closed to new UK lending) extensively too.

Ministers will probably provide some as they have been doing e.g. DLR depot changes funding but not on the scale required. They might well say "How much!!!"

 

[rdlover777]

There will be, Thameslink is only 20 of 24tph peak currently.
Cambridge - Maidstone with some extensions to Ashford are the services being stabled at Ashford.

well ok then, didn't know Thameslink was popular enough to worrent a route expansion

 

[Doomotron]

well ok then, didn't know Thameslink was popular enough to worrent a route expansion

Well I think that it should have been obvious since they've been trying to expand it since the 90s!

 

[Class 170101]

However the Minister can remove that constraint with a literal stroke of a pen though.

Can't see the current setup changing to be honest. Why would a Conservative Government help out a Labour Mayor of London? If they were both of the same political persuasion however....

Ther other thing that doesn't help the current Mayor is his fares freeze. Clearly this has reducedincome relative to costs and the Tories have had no end of fun pointing this out regardless of the merits or otherwise of the idea.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss what is actually happening regarding the Southeastern franchise direct award.

For all ideas and suggestions please use the Speculative Ideas section, thanks

There is a thread here to discuss ideas for the future of the Southeastern franchise: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/speculation-regarding-the-future-of-southeastern.188267/

 

[ScotGG]

Can't see the current setup changing to be honest. Why would a Conservative Government help out a Labour Mayor of London? If they were both of the same political persuasion however....

Ther other thing that doesn't help the current Mayor is his fares freeze. Clearly this has reducedincome relative to costs and the Tories have had no end of fun pointing this out regardless of the merits or otherwise of the idea.

Because Tories can quote they've done it and get the plaudits in time for next general or Mayoral election. It wouldnt actually have changed by the time of election and living in area and knowing local media Khan wouldn't get the praise for it

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Transport Minster response to select committee over why franchise cancelled

https://www.parliament.uk/documents...outh-eastern-franchise-competition-300819.pdf

 

[HH]

Transport Minster response to select committee over why franchise cancelled

https://www.parliament.uk/documents...outh-eastern-franchise-competition-300819.pdf

The missing question is “Why did it take you so long to realise that the new franchise was not going to deliver on passenger benefits, etc.?”

 

[RealTrains07]

Transport Minster response to select committee over why franchise cancelled

https://www.parliament.uk/documents...outh-eastern-franchise-competition-300819.pdf

So they couldn’t have applied the same to the WCP then?

 

[yorksrob]

Will the proposed fast services between Ashford and Charing Cross via the classic route still go ahead ?

 

[IceAgeComing]

Will the proposed fast services between Ashford and Charing Cross via the classic route still go ahead ?

pretty sure those proposals were based on having new rolling stock and increased capacity which, well, they aren't getting now so I doubt it especially since if anything they're losing capacity.

 

[yorksrob]

pretty sure those proposals were based on having new rolling stock and increased capacity which, well, they aren't getting now so I doubt it especially since if anything they're losing capacity.

Cheers.

I feared that might be the case, but thought it worth asking.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Will the proposed fast services between Ashford and Charing Cross via the classic route still go ahead ?

Seeing as the DofT own the 365's now just stick the shoegear back on them and that should give enough units

 

[hwl]

Seeing as the DofT own the 365's now just stick the shoegear back on them and that should give enough units

Only 8 of the ones not in use had 3rd rail gear, all the equipment was binned at various stages and wouldn't pass safety tests if refitted hence quite an expensive job.
(see 365 thread for the detail)

 

[cactustwirly]

Will the proposed fast services between Ashford and Charing Cross via the classic route still go ahead ?

Why does it need a fast service when we have HS1?

 

[Terry Tait]

The whole Southeastern situation is a great big pathetic joke, from the franchising to the lack of rolling stock to the ridiculous 2 car networker issue and the revenue on the metro being so ineffective as to giving about three generations of chavs free travel which I end up subsidising.

 

[yorksrob]

Seeing as the DofT own the 365's now just stick the shoegear back on them and that should give enough units

They seem like decent units. I could live with that.

Why does it need a fast service when we have HS1?

Because HS1 is massively overcrowded and goes to the wrong side of London.

 

[yorksrob]

Only 8 of the ones not in use had 3rd rail gear, all the equipment was binned at various stages and wouldn't pass safety tests if refitted hence quite an expensive job.
(see 365 thread for the detail)

Could they not just nick the shoe gear off of something else heading for the scrapyard ? They're not particularly hi tec.

 

[ScotGG]

Solutions only apply to other franchises. Amazing how often with SE things can't be done.

 

[Aictos]

They seem like decent units. I could live with that.



Because HS1 is massively overcrowded and goes to the wrong side of London.

HS1 goes to the right side of London, anyone wanting London Bridge can either use the classic routes or get a frequent TL from St Pancras to London Bridge.

 

[NorthKent1989]

It’s amazingly pathetic that one can travel across a large part of South London from Shortlands to Brixton for free.

My local stations at Greenwich and Blackheath are both major suburban stations, with Greenwich being an actual TfL interchange both still have no proper barriers, Greenwich is large enough to have them.

 

[Aictos]

It’s amazingly pathetic that one can travel across a large part of South London from Shortlands to Brixton for free.

My local stations at Greenwich and Blackheath are both major suburban stations, with Greenwich being an actual TfL interchange both still have no proper barriers, Greenwich is large enough to have them.

That’s something that could be rectified tomorrow in a direct award but nobody ever thinks of tackling the huge amounts of fare evasion that happens there!

 

[bionic]

The whole Southeastern situation is a great big pathetic joke, from the franchising to the lack of rolling stock to the ridiculous 2 car networker issue and the revenue on the metro being so ineffective as to giving about three generations of chavs free travel which I end up subsidising.

It’s amazingly pathetic that one can travel across a large part of South London from Shortlands to Brixton for free.

My local stations at Greenwich and Blackheath are both major suburban stations, with Greenwich being an actual TfL interchange both still have no proper barriers, Greenwich is large enough to have them.

These two posts sum SE metro operations up perfectly. Some parts of the network feel intimidating to passengers and can be downright dangerous at certain times. It's been like this since the 1990s. Whatever PR guff the company come out with they conveniently ignore this massive elephant in the room. Train travel is effectively free in southeast London.

 

[hwl]

Could they not just nick the shoe gear off of something else heading for the scrapyard ? They're not particularly hi tec.

Shoe gear - Cheap enough to buy /make all the required bits.
The main problem is that the isolation wasn't adequate previously (close but not quite) and this is now on everyones radar screens after several SWT/R 455 incidents were the new traction electronics went up in smoke but couldn't be isolated from the 3rd rail. Ditto the 458 post refurb fire. It isn't just the shoe gear...