My suggestion for cheaper fares on the LNER route

[yorksrob]

Look under the bonnet and these are no different from VTEC in terms of fares.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Look under the bonnet and these are no different from VTEC in terms of fares.

Given that pretty much the entire staff TUPEd over, that isn't massively surprising?

 

[yorksrob]

Can we campaign to be rid of the overprivced edifice as we would with VTEC?

 

[800001]

Given that pretty much the entire staff TUPEd over, that isn't massively surprising?

No staff tupe'd over as the staff were not employed by Virgin.

Staff are employed by 'East Coast Mainline Limited'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No staff tupe'd over as the staff were not employed by Virgin.

Staff are employed by 'East Coast Mainline Limited'.

Ah, so they simply stayed with the company? I stand corrected. The point is that it's basically the same company give or take some senior management and ownership plus what letters are in the side in red.

 

[800001]

Ah, so they simply stayed with the company? I stand corrected. The point is that it's basically the same company give or take some senior management and ownership plus what letters are in the side in red.

Yeah, I think only one director left when it changed to lner.

 

[Starmill]

I am not sure where the idea that there was significant change came from? There has been tinkering with the image. Can anyone suggest a single change that has been made to the business fundamentals? They are still following the same commercial model essentially. Some people call it effective extraction of consumer surplus, other people might more pejoratively call it ripping people off. Nobody can deny that it is centred around price increases - sometimes big ones. This could change, but all of the current evidence follows this lead.

They are a capitalist enterprise, the government applies weak or no controls over the prices they're allowed to charge, and they operate in a natural monopoly. Does anyone seriously expect that there won't be price rises?

 

[yorksrob]

Overpriced in other words.

 

[Starmill]

Overpriced in other words.

Railways generally in Great Britian are overpriced. But then, the majority of British people also don't use the railway.

 

[yorksrob]

Railways generally in Great Britian are overpriced. But then, the majority of British people also don't use the railway.

I don't think that's true nowadays about the majority of British people not using the railway.

 

[PG]

Please forgive my ignorance of the finer details.

When East Coast (EC) took over from National Express (NXEC) did most higher level staff remain or leave?

What is different under the current OLR (LNER) compared to the previous OLR (EC)? Or have Dft moved the goalposts since EC were running the operation and so the two are no longer comparable?

Certainly from a passenger perspective the on train and station staff seemed to be happier under EC then under NXEC. I can't really say the same this time since LNER took over from VTEC.

 

[mde]

Staff are employed by 'East Coast Mainline Limited'.

Weren't staff TUPE'd to London North Eastern Railway Limited, as is implied in the accounts for the former East Coast Mainline Company?

The operations of the Company were transferred to LNER on 24 June 2018 as expected, in a manner that was both professional and collaborative and was recognised as such by all of the Secretary of State, Department for Transport's Permanent Secretary and Directly Operated Holdings Limited (LNER's holding company). The company was keen to ensure that, the decision having been made, the transfer was effected in a manner which has the least impact on customers, and that employees, the majority of whom transferred to the new operator under Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment (TUPE) regulations, were protected and informed throughout the process so as to minimise the impact of any uncertainty.

View PDF Full accounts made up to 31 March 2018 - link opens in a new window - 46 pages pp1-2

 

[tom73]

Look under the bonnet and these are no different from VTEC in terms of fares.

I don't understand. Why should a change in operator have any effect on fares?

 

[yorksrob]

I don't understand. Why should a change in operator have any effect on fares?

Well, the change to VTEC certainly had an effect on fares.

 

[westv]

One thing that appears to have changed are seat sales - the last one was a year ago.

 

[Failed Unit]

I am not actually understanding the thread. LNER seems competitive on the similar journeys. London - Scotland tends to be cheaper on LNER than Virgin at the times I want to travel.

I notice the lowest tier are harder to find, but then some of these were extremely cheap. But London - Lincoln seems very cheap. (Maybe to encourage travel on a new route but the cost per mile I can’t see how they make any money on the AP - it does mean they can sell more seats on the x30 by encouraging more on the x06)

 

[Wallsendmag]

One thing that appears to have changed are seat sales - the last one was a year ago.

Or it may just be that LNER have got a whole lot more sophisticated with their offers and are able to target them more accurately. I'm really not sure what people expect , given that three franchises have failed due to lack of revenue how would OLR make any difference? Having said that there are big changes coming to the fare structure in January.

 

[Ianno87]

Overpriced in other words.

I find LNER's Advances to be generally lower priced than Virgin West Coast's.

I don't know why you werecexpecting fares to come down with the switch to LNER.

It's almost as if the mantra of the big bad private operators maximising profits is actually a complete myth.

 

[yorksrob]

I find LNER's Advances to be generally lower priced than Virgin West Coast's.

I don't know why you werecexpecting fares to come down with the switch to LNER.

It's almost as if the mantra of the big bad private operators maximising profits is actually a complete myth.

I see a lot of people are comparing Scotland fares with the West Coast. Perhaps they are competitive there.

On Yorkshire - London, they always seem to be £50+ one way whenever I want to travel.

 

[gray1404]

I notice that VTWC withdrew a lot of their lower tier Advance fares that were routed VTWC & Connections to/from London and stations in the South East Region. They have still retained their lower tier Advances that are routed VT/VTWC Only (including to London) and for VTWC & Connections when travel does not involve stations to/from the South East.

Does anyone know why they did this?

That said it was always difficult to get their lower priced Advances anyway, especially if travel with another TOC was involved that offered real/counted place reservations.

I think this is a factor in which East Coast may now be cheaper then the West Coast on some flows.

 

[yorksrob]

Or it may just be that LNER have got a whole lot more sophisticated with their offers and are able to target them more accurately. I'm really not sure what people expect , given that three franchises have failed due to lack of revenue how would OLR make any difference? Having said that there are big changes coming to the fare structure in January.

Up or down is all I'm interested in.

 

[Hadders]

I’d love to see rail fares reduced but anyone who thought that LNER would reduce fares when they took over from VTEC is living in a different world.

VTEC failed because they weren’t making sufficient profit to pay the premium payments they’d promised the government for the privilege of running the franchise.

The government will not want to lose out on premium payments and will want LNER to maximise their payments to them (as LNER is nationalised technically it’s not a premium but in effect it’s the same thing).

LNER has two ways to maximise their profits - increase fares or cut costs. They’ll be doing both.

 

[Failed Unit]

I see a lot of people are comparing Scotland fares with the West Coast. Perhaps they are competitive there.

On Yorkshire - London, they always seem to be £50+ one way whenever I want to travel.

How does they compare to Virgins north west - London or EMRs? LNER can’t push too high as they have competition (in terms of a comparable journey time) unless people are too scared to travel on 180s

 

[yorksrob]

How does they compare to Virgins north west - London or EMRs? LNER can’t push too high as they have competition (in terms of a comparable journey time) unless people are too scared to travel on 180s

GC are typically a few quid below VTEC. Traditionally it has been possible to get bargain fares to Yorkshire on EMR, but these are only a few South in the morning and a few North in the Evening.

 

[Ianno87]

I see a lot of people are comparing Scotland fares with the West Coast. Perhaps they are competitive there.

On Yorkshire - London, they always seem to be £50+ one way whenever I want to travel.

I semi-regularly do Cambridge-Stevenage/Peterborough-Leeds-Bolton journeys and usually pay £25-35 Advance each way (no Railcard). Starting price via London is £41.

I notice that VTWC withdrew a lot of their lower tier Advance fares that were routed VTWC & Connections to/from London and stations in the South East Region. They have still retained their lower tier Advances that are routed VT/VTWC Only (including to London) and for VTWC & Connections when travel does not involve stations to/from the South East.

Does anyone know why they did this?

That said it was always difficult to get their lower priced Advances anyway, especially if travel with another TOC was involved that offered real/counted place reservations.

I think this is a factor in which East Coast may now be cheaper then the West Coast on some flows.

Only last year, I got a ~£13 Advance each way between Cambridge and Kidderminster via Euston (bargain!)

Now, the cheapest tier is £25 each way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see a lot of people are comparing Scotland fares with the West Coast. Perhaps they are competitive there.

For reasons of a historical quirk (the abolition of SuperSavers at a key time to fare regulation) VTWC's Off Peaks are a bit cheaper than the relevant comparison (Super OP) on other lines, which also provides a cap on Advance fares, if that's any help?

 

[yorksrob]

I semi-regularly do Cambridge-Stevenage/Peterborough-Leeds-Bolton journeys and usually pay £25-35 Advance each way (no Railcard). Starting price via London is £41.



Only last year, I got a ~£13 Advance each way between Cambridge and Kidderminster via Euston (bargain!)

Now, the cheapest tier is £25 each way.

It used to be relatively straightforward getting around £25 one way to London. Haven't had one of those for a while now.

 

[westv]

Or it may just be that LNER have got a whole lot more sophisticated with their offers and are able to target them more accurately. I'm really not sure what people expect , given that three franchises have failed due to lack of revenue how would OLR make any difference? Having said that there are big changes coming to the fare structure in January.

And there was me thinking they have failed due to the large figures they promised to pay to the Government for the franchise.

 

[yorksrob]

For reasons of a historical quirk (the abolition of SuperSavers at a key time to fare regulation) VTWC's Off Peaks are a bit cheaper than the relevant comparison (Super OP) on other lines, which also provides a cap on Advance fares, if that's any help?

Could well be. On another thread I mentioned competitive walk on fares on LMR. I suspect these help to keep Virgin and successors in check.

The West coast seems to be a different world.

 

[cactustwirly]

Well it's not just the ECML where there's been fare rises.
On the MML, two years ago it used to be relatively easy to find advances from Leicester to London for £12 (with Railcard) now it's more like £19. For the first time ever I bought a Super Off-peak return for around £50