Valenta HST Driving Technique

[Kurolus Rex]

Hi there.

There is already a thread for HST driving techniques, however this mainly focuses on the current MTU/VP185 units, thus i have decided to create this thread for the Valenta HSTs specifically.

What were some of the driving techniques like when pulling away from a station?

Did the HSTs behave differently to the MTUs/VP185s when they used Valenta engines?

Thanks!

 

[Southern Dvr]

I believe there was an instruction not to take full power until the rear power car was clear of the station when departing Paddington. That instruction was relating to the noise if I recall correctly.

 

[Kurolus Rex]

I believe there was an instruction not to take full power until the rear power car was clear of the station when departing Paddington. That instruction was relating to the noise if I recall correctly.

I have heard this before too.

 

[Dampfmann]

Thank you for this thread. This video clip is relevant and perhaps ex Valenta drivers could also comment on the technique here -
which is somewhat spectacular - possibly by arrangement?

 

[Kurolus Rex]

Thank you for this thread. This video clip is relevant and perhaps ex Valenta drivers could also comment on the technique here -
which is somewhat spectacular - possibly by arrangement?

I've seen that video before too. As you say, i suspect it may of been by arrangement too. Most valenta departures I've seen don't seem to go above Notch 4 until the train has cleared the platform but i could be wrong.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi there.

There is already a thread for HST driving techniques, however this mainly focuses on the current MTU/VP185 units, thus i have decided to create this thread for the Valenta HSTs specifically.

What were some of the driving techniques like when pulling away from a station?

Did the HSTs behave differently to the MTUs/VP185s when they used Valenta engines?

Thanks!

The Haynes Manual lists the following technique:

Brakes to release
Power to Notch 1
Observe amps rise
As soon as train moves, into Notch 3
Observe amps rise and allow to settle
Once settled - into Notch 4
Observe amps rise and allow to settle
Once settled - into Notch 5
This means that Notch 5 is gone into at around 12-15mph typically

It is bad practice to go straight into full power from a stand as you can very easily overload the power car and get zilch.

 

[Kurolus Rex]

The Haynes Manual lists the following technique:

Brakes to release
Power to Notch 1
Observe amps rise
As soon as train moves, into Notch 3
Observe amps rise and allow to settle
Once settled - into Notch 4
Observe amps rise and allow to settle
Once settled - into Notch 5
This means that Notch 5 is gone into at around 12-15mph typically

It is bad practice to go straight into full power from a stand as you can very easily overload the power car and get zilch.

Brake release before going into power? Even with how long the brakes take to come off on a HST, wouldn't it be safer to leave the brakes on in Step 2 until the amps have risen?

 

[hexagon789]

Brake release before going into power? Even with how long the brakes take to come off on a HST, wouldn't it be safer to leave the brakes on in Step 2 until the amps have risen?

You select brake release and simultaneously apply power. The amps will have risen before the brakes fully release on an HST and on the level applying power with the brakes fully released is preferable anyway, it's only an issue on an uphill gradient where you want to to avoid running back of course.

 

[irish_rail]

The Haynes Manual lists the following technique:

Brakes to release
Power to Notch 1
Observe amps rise
As soon as train moves, into Notch 3
Observe amps rise and allow to settle
Once settled - into Notch 4
Observe amps rise and allow to settle
Once settled - into Notch 5
This means that Notch 5 is gone into at around 12-15mph typically

It is bad practice to go straight into full power from a stand as you can very easily overload the power car and get zilch.

Makes you wonder if this last bit is why 41001 was taken away from the 125 group, and is now knackered, over enthusiastic driving perhaps?????

 

[hexagon789]

Makes you wonder if this last bit is why 41001 was taken away from the 125 group, and is now knackered, over enthusiastic driving perhaps?????

Quite possibly, I'll have a look at my Haynes manual for the precise wording, but it says sonething about opening up to full power does the power car no favours so to speak.

 

[notadriver]

Quite possibly, I'll have a look at my Haynes manual for the precise wording, but it says sonething about opening up to full power does the power car no favours so to speak.

Are you a driver ?

 

[hexagon789]

Are you a driver ?

No, but I don't see why I can't relay information from a book which was written by an HST driver?

 

[hexagon789]

Makes you wonder if this last bit is why 41001 was taken away from the 125 group, and is now knackered, over enthusiastic driving perhaps?????

The full bit in Haynes says that full power from a stand is to be avoided as it can: result in a jerky start, overloading of the power car and power application is not quicker as the engine governor is still trying to catch up with the demand for power.

 

[43096]

Makes you wonder if this last bit is why 41001 was taken away from the 125 group, and is now knackered, over enthusiastic driving perhaps?????

Utter nonsense and couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

[Kurolus Rex]

Could you hear the engine revving up in Notch 1 on the valentas? IIRC MTU engined HSTs don't actually increase the revs until Notch 3 and only increase the amps in Notch 1 and 2 with the ETS on. Could be wrong though, not a driver.

 

[EssexGonzo]

Utter nonsense and couldn’t be further from the truth.

The truth being what, exactly?

 

[Darandio]

The truth being what, exactly?

We never get to find that out. Everything is always either nonsense, uninformed wibble or wrong but it's never expanded further than that.

 

[EssexGonzo]

We never get to find that out. Everything is always either nonsense, uninformed wibble or wrong but it's never expanded further than that.

Exactly. It does rather seem too easy to deride the other argument when seemingly not actually knowing what the truth is that the other argument is so distant from.

 

[43096]

Could you hear the engine revving up in Notch 1 on the valentas? IIRC MTU engined HSTs don't actually increase the revs until Notch 3 and only increase the amps in Notch 1 and 2 with the ETS on. Could be wrong though, not a driver.

You might want to consult the Haynes Manual: https://www.125group.org.uk/product/inter-city-125-haynes-manual/

A power car with ETS on runs in notch 2 to provide train supply, so engine speed will increase only in notch 3. A power car without ETS on idles at the same as notch 1, so engine speed increases when it goes into notch 2.

 

[43096]

Exactly. It does rather seem too easy to deride the other argument when seemingly not actually knowing what the truth is that the other argument is so distant from.

All too easy for people to sling accusations around that have never been substantiated and expanded upon. The NRM offered no evidence to back its accusations.

From the many journeys I had behind 41001, it was never driven in any way other than what you would expect from a professional, highly competent mainline driver.

 

[Kurolus Rex]

You might want to consult the Haynes Manual: https://www.125group.org.uk/product/inter-city-125-haynes-manual/

A power car with ETS on runs in notch 2 to provide train supply, so engine speed will increase only in notch 3. A power car without ETS on idles at the same as notch 1, so engine speed increases when it goes into notch 2.

£25 - No thanks!

I came across this departure which seems to be very similar to the earlier departure.

The departure seems more gradual than is suggested in the Haynes Manual. Assuming the driver starts in Notch 2, it appears the driver then goes into Notch 3 once the brakes are released fully, before going into 4 shortly after, then pausing for a bit and going into Notch 5 around 5mph. It's worth noting though that drivers rarely appear to follow manuals exactly and i'm not discrediting the manual at all. It's something that will ultimately vary depending on the driver.

Edit:
This departure seems more similar to the technique suggested in the Haynes Manual with what looks like a Notch 3 departure.

 

[hexagon789]

Could you hear the engine revving up in Notch 1 on the valentas? IIRC MTU engined HSTs don't actually increase the revs until Notch 3 and only increase the amps in Notch 1 and 2 with the ETS on. Could be wrong though, not a driver.

No, all 3 engine types are idle revs in notch 1.

For the ETS-supplying power car there is no change in revs until Notch 3 is selected, on the other power car (generally the leading one), the revs first increase in Notch 2.

According to Haynes the only difference in engine speed per notch between a Valenta and an MTU is Notch 4 - 1,390rpm on a Valenta but 1,420rpm on an MTU.

 

[hexagon789]

£25 - No thanks!

I came across this departure which seems to be very similar to the earlier departure.

The departure seems more gradual than is suggested in the Haynes Manual. Assuming the driver starts in Notch 2, it appears the driver then goes into Notch 3 once the brakes are released fully, before going into 4 shortly after, then pausing for a bit and going into Notch 5 around 5mph. It's worth noting though that drivers rarely appear to follow manuals exactly and i'm not discrediting the manual at all. It's something that will ultimately vary depending on the driver.

Edit:
This departure seems more similar to the technique suggested in the Haynes Manual with what looks like a Notch 3 departure.

Notch 2 starts seem the most common these days.

 

[Kurolus Rex]

Hmmm. Is the ETS supplying loco always the leading vehicle?

 

[43096]

Hmmm. Is the ETS supplying loco always the leading vehicle?

Normally the rear one. Gives both a slightly better environment for the driver and also allows the driver to put ETS back on whilst on the move should it cut out for whatever reason.

 

[hexagon789]

Hmmm. Is the ETS supplying loco always the leading vehicle?

Rear as 43096 states, is usual, also means the leading one is usually pulling more which is usually preferable in push-pull arrangements

 

[Kurolus Rex]

Normally the rear one. Gives both a slightly better environment for the driver and also allows the driver to put ETS back on whilst on the move should it cut out for whatever reason.

Rear as 43096 states, is usual, also means the leading one is usually pulling more which is usually preferable in push-pull arrangements

Ah, that explains why you'd still be able to hear Notch 2 from the leading loco then. Thanks for the info!

 

[hexagon789]

Ah, that explains why you'd still be able to hear Notch 2 from the leading loco then. Thanks for the info!

I would politely suggest that if you want that sort of detail in general on HSTs and it interests you - invest in a copy of the Haynes manual. It's full of in-depth technical details and an interesting read as well.

 

[Kurolus Rex]

I would politely suggest that if you want that sort of detail in general on HSTs and it interests you - invest in a copy of the Haynes manual. It's full of in-depth technical details and an interesting read as well.

I'd love to read it, problem is finding a spare £25

 

[hexagon789]

I'd love to read it, problem is finding a spare £25

Try Amazon or eBay, I got my copy for £15