30 minute delay announced, departed after 12 and left passenger behind

[Phil from Mon]

At Chester yesterday there was a 30 minute delay announced to the Cardiff train due to lack of crew. An American (I think) passenger slipped off for a coffee or a fag, not sure which, leaving coat and bags behind. Train left after 12 minutes without said passenger. Fortunately the guard was alerted and his luggage offloaded for safekeeping in the booking office at Wrexham. Now I, and I am sure most UK passengers, would not take such a risk but others might not be so “streetwise”. What is the railway’s liability in such a situation, and what would be the position if he had an advance ticket?

 

[221129]

The passenger was at fault.

 

[The_Train]

Always a dangerous game to get off a train unless you are at your destination so it is clearly the fault of the passenger. That said, was there any need for the operator to announce a specific length of time for the delay as opposed to just announcing that you would be delayed at Chester?

 

[221129]

Always a dangerous game to get off a train unless you are at your destination so it is clearly the fault of the passenger. That said, was there any need for the operator to announce a specific length of time for the delay as opposed to just announcing that you would be delayed at Chester?

Because people throw a hissy if they arent told the exact length of the delay, even if you dont know.

 

[Antman]

Because people throw a hissy if they arent told the exact length of the delay, even if you dont know.

Hissy fit? Passengers like to be kept informed so that they can plan ahead.

 

[pdeaves]

Because people throw a hissy if they arent told the exact length of the delay, even if you dont know.

Agreed; sometimes you just can't win!

 

[Antman]

At Chester yesterday there was a 30 minute delay announced to the Cardiff train due to lack of crew. An American (I think) passenger slipped off for a coffee or a fag, not sure which, leaving coat and bags behind. Train left after 12 minutes without said passenger. Fortunately the guard was alerted and his luggage offloaded for safekeeping in the booking office at Wrexham. Now I, and I am sure most UK passengers, would not take such a risk but others might not be so “streetwise”. What is the railway’s liability in such a situation, and what would be the position if he had an advance ticket?

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic but the passenger has only themselves to blame, what if their belongings had been stolen?

 

[smsm1]

I'd speak to the guard before getting off. I've seen occasions where people get something from a station shop, or go to the station toilet when the on train toilet isn't working, and the guard holds the train until the person has come back.

 

[2L70]

At Chester yesterday there was a 30 minute delay announced to the Cardiff train due to lack of crew. An American (I think) passenger slipped off for a coffee or a fag, not sure which, leaving coat and bags behind. Train left after 12 minutes without said passenger. Fortunately the guard was alerted and his luggage offloaded for safekeeping in the booking office at Wrexham. Now I, and I am sure most UK passengers, would not take such a risk but others might not be so “streetwise”. What is the railway’s liability in such a situation, and what would be the position if he had an advance ticket?

Shouldn’t have got off for a fag for a start, enough signs about saying smoking is banned on stations and the pre recorded TFW announcements!

 

[The_Train]

Shouldn’t have got off for a fag for a start, enough signs about saying smoking is banned on stations and the pre recorded TFW announcements!

Where does it say he was smoking on the station?

 

[Antman]

Where does it say he was smoking on the station?

Indeed, it's not even confirmed that he was smoking at all.

 

[PeterC]

If he was American what would be his expectations?
We all expect the train to leave without any fuss but is that how it would work over there?

 

[underbank]

Sorry to go against the grain here. But if there was an official announcement that the train would depart 30 minutes late, then they need to stick with that, even if circumstances change. Whoever made such a specific announcement is at fault.

 

[221129]

Sorry to go against the grain here. But if there was an official announcement that the train would depart 30 minutes late, then they need to stick with that, even if circumstances change. Whoever made such a specific announcement is at fault.

So youd prefer to more than double the delay just in case a passenger has decided to pop off for a brew? I suspect you're in the minority.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I'd rather no information rather than wrong information.

 

[221129]

I'd rather no information rather than wrong information.

And if it was the correct information to start with? In disruption things can and do often change. There is no winning with some people.

 

[Revaulx]

This nearly happened to my daughter and me at Lime Street last Wednesday. We got on our waiting TPE that was already well loaded. Two minutes before departure an announcement came over the station PA that the train had been cancelled owing to crew shortages. Some people got off; most including us stayed put awaiting someone to appear and chuck us off. A minute later the doors closed without (as far as I could tell) any further announcement and we set off to our destination almost on time.

If I'd been one of those who took the announcement at face value and got off, I wouldn't have been at all happy. If anyone had tried to tell me it was my fault, I'd probably have punched them in the face

 

[Andy Pacer]

And if it was the correct information to start with? In disruption things can and do often change. There is no winning with some people.

When I've been in a similar situation I would explain the disruption but avoid giving specific time information, just my opinion (which has no reason to be invalid on this forum).

 

[The_Train]

I'd rather no information rather than wrong information.

It's about being sensible with announcements. If you're going to announce a specific time for a delay maybe follow that up with something along the lines of 'this is subject to immediate change and anyone leaving the train does so at their own risk'

This nearly happened to my daughter and me at Lime Street last Wednesday. We got on our waiting TPE that was already well loaded. Two minutes before departure an announcement came over the station PA that the train had been cancelled owing to crew shortages. Some people got off; most including us stayed put awaiting someone to appear and chuck us off. A minute later the doors closed without (as far as I could tell) any further announcement and we set off to our destination almost on time.

If I'd been one of those who took the announcement at face value and got off, I wouldn't have been at all happy. If anyone had tried to tell me it was my fault, I'd probably have punched them in the face

That's completely different to the situation discussed here though. It's reasonable for people to get off a train that has been announced as cancelled but not when a train is simply announced as delayed. Clearly in your situation, whoever made the announcement would have been in the wrong but it's nice to know that you'd resort to violence should anyone 'dare' to blame you

 

[2L70]

And the most offended award of the day goes to...

 

[mmh]

Some depressing attitudes here. Why do people feel the need to attribute blame all the time? It's just an unfortunate occurrence, nobody needs to be at fault whenever something happens.

It's also worth remembering not everyone has paranoia over losing belongings. Theft is rare, and you can't (unless you take things to silly extremes) be next to your belongings all the time. (Similarities here with some of the comments over the musician who left a valuable violin on a luggage rack)

I've mentioned in the past how when trains used to make extended stops at Crewe for locomotive changes in the days between the end of smoking carriages and the disappearance of loco hauled trains, guards would suggest passengers could alight to smoke or "stretch their legs."

It's very common to see people exit the station at Chester to smoke (I often do myself) although I doubt many aren't changing trains!

 

[Leo1961]

Some depressing attitudes here. Why do people feel the need to attribute blame all the time? It's just an unfortunate occurrence, nobody needs to be at fault whenever something happens.

It's also worth remembering not everyone has paranoia over losing belongings. Theft is rare, and you can't (unless you take things to silly extremes) be next to your belongings all the time. (Similarities here with some of the comments over the musician who left a valuable violin on a luggage rack)

I've mentioned in the past how when trains used to make extended stops at Crewe for locomotive changes in the days between the end of smoking carriages and the disappearance of loco hauled trains, guards would suggest passengers could alight to smoke or "stretch their legs."

It's very common to see people exit the station at Chester to smoke (I often do myself) although I doubt many aren't changing trains!

Possibly as we now live in a world of "Where there is blame, there is a claim"

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd rather no information rather than wrong information.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we will be delayed here for approximately 30 minutes while an engineer attends, however please do be aware that we could end up with the problem solved sooner than that, or it could take longer. If you leave the train, please therefore do not leave your luggage unattended[1], take it with you, for both security reasons and in case we get cleared to leave earlier, as we will not be able to wait for you in that case, and if left unattended it may be removed and destroyed[2]. If you hold an Advance or similarly restricted ticket, please note that if you do get off and the train goes, you will have to buy a new ticket. Thank you."

[1] See It, Say It, Sorted points there
[2] More SSS points

 

[Howardh]

"Ladies and gentlemen, we will be delayed here for approximately 30 minutes while an engineer attends, however please do be aware that we could end up with the problem solved sooner than that, or it could take longer. If you leave the train, please therefore do not leave your luggage unattended[1], take it with you, for both security reasons and in case we get cleared to leave earlier, as we will not be able to wait for you in that case, and if left unattended it may be removed and destroyed[2]. If you hold an Advance or similarly restricted ticket, please note that if you do get off and the train goes, you will have to buy a new ticket. Thank you."

[1] See It, Say It, Sorted points there
[2] More SSS points

On an aircraft (admittedly you can't get off!) the captain will announce "we are being held for xx minutes, however if a slot becomes available we could depart earlier". It's not hard for the guard to announce "we will be delayed for xx minutes but could depart earlier when the problem/hold-up's sorted, please do not leave the train."

 

[43096]

If he was American what would be his expectations?
We all expect the train to leave without any fuss but is that how it would work over there?

If they’re used to Amtrak then it might be a 4hr delay or more!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So youd prefer to more than double the delay just in case a passenger has decided to pop off for a brew? I suspect you're in the minority.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here, you will find on Amtrak (to which the chap if he’s American is probably more used to), if they have a break stop for say 15 minutes (and announced) which happen periodically on long distance Amtrak trains even if they are running late they will still honour it.

Sounds like the chap thought the system here would behave in the same way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here, you will find on Amtrak (to which the chap if he’s American is probably more used to), if they have a break stop for say 15 minutes (and announced) which happen periodically on long distance Amtrak trains even if they are running late they will still honour it.

Sounds like the chap thought the system here would behave in the same way.

Yes, I've experienced that - they will decide on arrival how long they're staying for and tell you and stick to it - you can wander off including leaving luggage in sleeper compartments.

 

[Ianno87]

If he was American what would be his expectations?
We all expect the train to leave without any fuss but is that how it would work over there?

If Amtrak long distance trains are anything to go by, lengthy long stops at stations where passengers are free to do as they please in the meantime are par for the course. Although relatively few Americans will ever travel by train ever at all.

"Ladies and gentlemen, we will be delayed here for approximately 30 minutes while an engineer attends, however please do be aware that we could end up with the problem solved sooner than that, or it could take longer. If you leave the train, please therefore do not leave your luggage unattended[1], take it with you, for both security reasons and in case we get cleared to leave earlier, as we will not be able to wait for you in that case, and if left unattended it may be removed and destroyed[2]. If you hold an Advance or similarly restricted ticket, please note that if you do get off and the train goes, you will have to buy a new ticket. Thank you."

[1] See It, Say It, Sorted points there
[2] More SSS points

Or, more simply, "We are going to be delayed here whilst an engineer attends to a problem with the train. We expect this to take around half an hour to resolve, although if we fix it sooner, we'll be on our way as soon as we can, so please stay on the train".

 

[6Gman]

And if it was the correct information to start with? In disruption things can and do often change. There is no winning with some people.

Ah, but was the announcement "this train will be delayed by 30 minutes" or "this train is likely to be delayed by 30 minutes" or "this train will be delayed by approximately 30 minutes" or "this train will be delayed by up to 30 minutes", all of which have different meanings?

Saw something similar at Shrewsbury. The Heart of Wales train was announced as delayed by 90 minutes (!) because of a track fault. Of course, perhaps the necessary repair would have been completed sooner - but sitting on the Dogbox, or on Platform 3 at Shrewsbury for 90 minutes is unappealing.

Not sure there's a single correct answer to be honest, but not a good outcome for the passenger/s involved.

 

[L401CJF]

Not quite the same, but I caught a West Highland line train to Fort William a few years back, of course they split at Chrianlarich so half can go to Oban and the other to Mallaig via Fort William. The guard made a very clear announcement over which coaches where going where, which was departing first, and that if anybody wanted to get off to stretch their legs, have a smoke etc then they where more than welcome too. Also informed everybody that the doors would close so the train could split but not to worry, and then made very clear announcements on the platform when it was time to board again. He advised we would have around 10 minutes.

The same applies here, in that if the announcement was clear the passenger probably wouldn't have missed getting back on. If it was me personally, I would have taken my luggage anyway to be safe.

I've seen similar happen a few times at Crewe on London Midland services when toilets have been out of use on the train, however anybody getting off had been advised to inform the guard so they knew how many people to wait for. Clear communication is the key factor, although the blame lies on both parts