Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
From: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ir-new-nova-trains.195468/page-2#post-4298962
That TPE services stop in more minor locations is perhaps down to fact that no-one has bothered to 4-track a serious TPML yet, and segregate local and inter-city traffic. The fact that the "Northern Powerhouse Rail" project is aligned more with TPE routes and destinations than XC destinations might tell us something about how TPE *ought* to be running, if only the infrastructure were there.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree that it should be more IC, but the infrastructure isn't there, and by and large people prefer a more frequent but slower regional express service than a fast but infrequent IC.
You could do it that way on the German model - you'd have something like the following with long end-doored locomotive hauled trains:
- 0.5tph IC Liverpool-Manchester Pic-Leeds-York-possibly Darlo-Durham-Newcastle
- 0.5tph IC Liverpool-Manchester Pic-Leeds-Hull
And these using stock using shorter trains with doors at thirds:
- 0.5tph RE Liverpool-Newcastle, present TPE stopping pattern
- 0.5tph RE Liverpool-Hull, present TPE stopping pattern
- 0.5tph of RB (all stations) on sections of those routes
- plus a bit more infill. South TPE is definitely RE rather than IC (the IC would be Liverpool-Notts, and would also be 0.5tph Liverpool-Manchester Pic-Sheffield-Nottingham plus 0.5tph RE)
That would fit the present lines, but it isn't, I'm sure, what people would want.
So if we accept that the present service is a high-frequency RE, it needs suitable stock for taking high loadings, lots of passenger boarding/alighting, short stops, quicker turnarounds, easy circulation and high standing capacity for commuter times - so something like a Class 170, 185 or 195, not end-doored IC layout coaches. I don't deny they look nice, but they will return us to the days of the morning peak stop at Manchester Oxford Road taking well over 5 minutes, for example.
If TPE isn't considered InterCity, then there's a passive pennine-shaped hole in the services that are considered inter-city.
That TPE services stop in more minor locations is perhaps down to fact that no-one has bothered to 4-track a serious TPML yet, and segregate local and inter-city traffic. The fact that the "Northern Powerhouse Rail" project is aligned more with TPE routes and destinations than XC destinations might tell us something about how TPE *ought* to be running, if only the infrastructure were there.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree that it should be more IC, but the infrastructure isn't there, and by and large people prefer a more frequent but slower regional express service than a fast but infrequent IC.
You could do it that way on the German model - you'd have something like the following with long end-doored locomotive hauled trains:
- 0.5tph IC Liverpool-Manchester Pic-Leeds-York-possibly Darlo-Durham-Newcastle
- 0.5tph IC Liverpool-Manchester Pic-Leeds-Hull
And these using stock using shorter trains with doors at thirds:
- 0.5tph RE Liverpool-Newcastle, present TPE stopping pattern
- 0.5tph RE Liverpool-Hull, present TPE stopping pattern
- 0.5tph of RB (all stations) on sections of those routes
- plus a bit more infill. South TPE is definitely RE rather than IC (the IC would be Liverpool-Notts, and would also be 0.5tph Liverpool-Manchester Pic-Sheffield-Nottingham plus 0.5tph RE)
That would fit the present lines, but it isn't, I'm sure, what people would want.
So if we accept that the present service is a high-frequency RE, it needs suitable stock for taking high loadings, lots of passenger boarding/alighting, short stops, quicker turnarounds, easy circulation and high standing capacity for commuter times - so something like a Class 170, 185 or 195, not end-doored IC layout coaches. I don't deny they look nice, but they will return us to the days of the morning peak stop at Manchester Oxford Road taking well over 5 minutes, for example.