Robertj21a
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
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So, in essence, we're partly back to the old chestnut - how is it that 12-coach trains have routinely operated DOO through London for very many years without serious problems arising ?
And we all know how that works out. They'll then say "oh, trains can run if needs be without a OBS/TE as the driver will be able to control the doors" and from there it's a slippery slope.
So, in essence, we're partly back to the old chestnut - how is it that 12-coach trains have routinely operated DOO through London for very many years without serious problems arising ?
I like how you ignore incidents such as the FCC one near Kentish Town West from back in May 2011 and similar in your DOO support.
I like how you ignore incidents such as the FCC one near Kentish Town West from back in May 2011 and similar in your DOO support.
They look massively lucrative to me. GTR have advertised them at salary £35k rising to £37k, plus sale commission. Presumably some overtime is also available, and that's before we come to profit sharing scheme, free travel benefit and the Railway Pension.That's what I thought the Southern OBS would be - but it seems to be a success as a role in its own right, even if it's a slightly odd one, and doesn't look like it'll go anywhere any time soon.
They look massively lucrative to me. GTR have advertised them at salary £35k rising to £37k, plus sale commission. Presumably some overtime is also available, and that's before we come to profit sharing scheme, free travel benefit and the Railway Pension.
Or to put it another way they're paid more than many guards, but they don't have the legal duty that guards with a safety critical brief do. This means that their work is less risky.
This isn't the thread for it, but it's quite questionable if the OBS staff represent value for money compared to guards at, say, EMR Regional.
Not really, I could have also chosen Transport for Wales and maybe a handful of others. I was choosing an example of where the guard can be relied upon to actually interact with passengers wherever there's an opportunity to do so. Hull Trains for example would certainly also fit the bill, but I wasn't sure if their guards are paid less than the figures from the ad quoted.Any reason for choosing EMR Regional ? -it seems a strange comparison when Southern OBS are often on the trunk London routes from Sussex etc.
They look massively lucrative to me. GTR have advertised them at salary £35k rising to £37k, plus sale commission. Presumably some overtime is also available, and that's before we come to profit sharing scheme, free travel benefit and the Railway Pension.
Or to put it another way they're paid more than many guards, but they don't have the legal duty that guards with a safety critical brief do. This means that their work is less risky.
This isn't the thread for it, but it's quite questionable if the OBS staff represent value for money compared to guards at, say, EMR Regional.
They look massively lucrative to me. GTR have advertised them at salary £35k rising to £37k, plus sale commission. Presumably some overtime is also available, and that's before we come to profit sharing scheme, free travel benefit and the Railway Pension.
Or to put it another way they're paid more than many guards, but they don't have the legal duty that guards with a safety critical brief do. This means that their work is less risky.
This isn't the thread for it, but it's quite questionable if the OBS staff represent value for money compared to guards at, say, EMR Regional.
Wouldn't you expect there to be a small premium for the safety critical nature of the work of a guard?The cost of living is higher in the South of England and also OBS pay and working weeks includes Sunday as part of the working week. They are paid more a less the regional average for other TOCs including their owns Conductors.
I agree. I think that, at the moment, value for money and customer care quality are both being overlooked, in favour of the same old debate along the same old lines about who is in control of what. It will probably not come as a surprise that I am almost as interested in both good value for money and good quality customer care as I am in safety standards.I have made the point previously that there really needs to be a complete review of the whole concept of DOO on the national network which would consider not just the safety aspects but also the financial and the customer service aspects.
I agree. I think that, at the moment, value for money and customer care quality are both being overlooked, in favour of the same old debate along the same old lines about who is in control of what. It will probably not come as a surprise that I am almost as interested in both good value for money and good quality customer care as I am in safety standards.
Wouldn't you expect there to be a small premium for the safety critical nature of the work of a guard?
Just a gentle nudge this isn’t a DOO thread.... it’s all been done to death.
Sort of fair comment - but the heading suggests that this is indeed a DOO thread !
Maybe the opinions of the drivers who will have to work any such trains should be taken into consideration.
DOO - Bad
DCO - Acceptable
For all we know, he might do. But I assume he means that he'll just accept doing the doors if there's still a second person for customer service duties.From a driver’s perspective, wouldn’t you rather have a guard dispatching you?
From a driver’s perspective, wouldn’t you rather have a guard dispatching you?
For all we know, he might do. But I assume he means that he'll just accept doing the doors if there's still a second person for customer service duties.
I can say that working with a Guard is the best option operationally and has a significant impact on my day.
If that Guard was reduced to being a second member and DOO was increased to have a second member of staff I really believe that is the way forward.
Not really. So many services have operated perfectly well as DOO that it must put into doubt whether those 'safety critical' issues are really so critical to the safe operation of the railways. The whole issue tends to get a bit clouded by the RMT insistence on doors.....doors....doors......
I would also like ALL stations to be staffed from the first to the last train like LO has.
The above statements seem a little contradictory.
Personally, having driven both DOO and guarded trains, I’d always rather work with a guard.
In an urban environment yes, but rural halts with just three trains a day?
That’s theoretically a good idea but in practice a complete waste of time given the RMTs position is currently so entrenched it couldn’t accept any verdict other than it being deemed unsafe & should be discontinued.I have made the point previously that there really needs to be a complete review of the whole concept of DOO on the national network