Psychometrics

[PlexiDriver]

What makes psychometrics so hard?

What's the pass/fail rate?

Do TOCs usually hire those who make it past that stage?

How long does a passed one last on your record?

I'm sure all asked before but might be nice all in one place haha! Thank youuuu!

 

[Red1980]

1- hard is a relative term ,what's hard to some is easy/common sense to others

2- god knows.

3- no it's far from a formality that those who pass the psychometric stage get the job although some do the recruitment in a different order and as the tests are the last stage the people that pass them get the job.

4- every TOC different it used to be 5 years but some accept them for less.

 

[baz962]

What makes psychometrics so hard?

What's the pass/fail rate?

Do TOCs usually hire those who make it past that stage?

How long does a passed one last on your record?

I'm sure all asked before but might be nice all in one place haha! Thank youuuu!

I was told by the OPC in terms of pass rate , that it's around 40% ish for normal and drops to around 20% for enhanced.

 

[43066]

no it's far from a formality that those who pass the psychometric stage get the job although some do the recruitment in a different order and as the tests are the last stage the people that pass them get the job

Indeed.

The psychometric tests are a minimum standard, and only one factor that is taken into account in the recruitment process.

Sadly some drivers rack up incidents soon after passing out and it quickly becomes apparent that they lack the aptitude to do the job, despite having passed the psychometrics.

 

[OneLowban]

What makes psychometrics hard is absolutely bricking it at the thought of only having 2 chances ever and wanting the job so bad, making a mistake and not recovering well, not understanding EXACTLY what you’re supposed to do.

Not to mention getting through to the psychometrics in the first place.

Of course there may be some people that just simply can’t do the psychometrics, but this doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make a good train driver either, as said above (the opposite).

In my opinion the tests weren’t hard, I actually enjoyed doing them, but they can be easily messed up for sure.

 

[Red1980]

Indeed.

The psychometric tests are a minimum standard, and only one factor that is taken into account in the recruitment process.

Sadly some drivers rack up incidents soon after passing out and it quickly becomes apparent that they lack the aptitude to do the job, despite having passed the psychometrics.

One thing I've noticed recently is an increase in trainee drivers not even passing out.

 

[Red1980]

What makes psychometrics hard is absolutely bricking it at the thought of only having 2 chances ever and wanting the job so bad, making a mistake and not recovering well, not understanding EXACTLY what you’re supposed to do.

Not to mention getting through to the psychometrics in the first place.

Of course there may be some people that just simply can’t do the psychometrics, but this doesn’t mean they wouldn’t make a good train driver either, as said above (the opposite).

In my opinion the tests weren’t hard, I actually enjoyed doing them, but they can be easily messed up for sure.

Kinda true.....but that process isn't just about seeing what your aptitude levels are it's seeing how you're coping in a pressurised environment as well.

 

[4F89]

I cant say I ever really desired to be a driver, but maybe that's what they want. I didn't expect to get through each stage, but kept plugging away, and here I am. I understand I've been very fortunate, but thems the breaks.

 

[Duffman76]

One thing I've noticed recently is an increase in trainee drivers not even passing out.

Seriously?
Wow.
Where have you noticed this?

 

[ComUtoR]

Seriously?
Wow.
Where have you noticed this?

Happens all the time. Quite a few don't make it. A fair few don't even make their first year.

 

[OneLowban]

Kinda true.....but that process isn't just about seeing what your aptitude levels are it's seeing how you're coping in a pressurised environment as well.

Yeah that’s where I was going with making a mistake and recovering, keeping calm etc. As not completing all the questions or making a couple of errors doesn’t mean you’ve messed it up.

 

[dabollicks]

As someone who has recently taken the tests, my biggest fear was indeed the thought of only getting 2 cracks at them. I was fortunate to pass them first time and am now waiting for a DMI date, so still a hurdle to get over. I didn’t find the tests particularly hard if I’m honest, my wife on the other hand really struggled with them when I showed her the practice material. In my opinion you either “get it” or you don’t.

 

[na281093]

When you guys say you only get 2 chances do you mean with that particular company? Or 2 chances all together for a duration of time? Surely you don't just get 2 chances at it for your whole life and then you can't ever take the test again how would they be able to check this is it all kept on one database which all companies have access to?

 

[Liam00086]

When you guys say you only get 2 chances do you mean with that particular company? Or 2 chances all together for a duration of time? Surely you don't just get 2 chances at it for your whole life and then you can't ever take the test again how would they be able to check this is it all kept on one database which all companies have access to?

You get 2 chances in your life, unless they change the test, then your life’s get reset. Yes it’s all kept on a database so all companies can get the information.

 

[na281093]

Wow, didn't know that. I'll be sure to practice like mad should I ever get invited to the assessment day for it.

 

[43066]

One thing I've noticed recently is an increase in trainee drivers not even passing out.

Likewise.

For such a competitive job to break into it’s unbelievable how many complete melts slip through the net and end up with a key.

The recruitment process generally is clearly lacking.

 

[Red1980]

Likewise.

For such a competitive job to break into it’s unbelievable how many complete melts slip through the net and end up with a key.

The recruitment process generally is clearly lacking.

Yeah. My old TOC in particular have serious issues.

I always said these new tests that were brought in a few years ago were fantastic as they looked far more relevant to the actual day to day job you're going to be doing.

I look now though at the amount of people struggling with the basics needed to do the job safely and struggling to make their pass out it's making me wonder whether the actual testing is testing for "enough aptitude" or whether there's a failing somewhere else within the recruitment process.

Don't get me wrong I make the same errors most experienced drivers do day to day, but some of the reasons I've heard for people not passing out is concerning to say the least.

It's a shame really as I love this job and want everyone else going for it to pass out too and get the enjoyment out of it that I and many others do.

 

[Red1980]

Seriously?
Wow.
Where have you noticed this?

Yeah unfortunately.

I can only speak for my former TOC with my comment but it wouldn't surprise me if the same issues happened with most TOCs.

 

[Red1980]

Wow, didn't know that. I'll be sure to practice like mad should I ever get invited to the assessment day for it.

Not sure if you were aware that as long as you keep passing certain parts of the assessments you can take them as much as you like....it's just when you fail one of your lives go.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm teaching you to suck eggs (really not the intention) but it does confuse some who aren't familiar with the process.

 

[Eggs&Bacon]

What happens if you’re in a Talent Pool, but do the tests for another company and fail.? Would the company you’re in a Talent Pool with be notified, and that’s your lot.? I’m aware that once you have passed the tests you should just go straight to DMI. But, from reading on here you maybe required to sit the lot again or if a enhanced pass is needed.

 

[Dave Tasty]

My understanding is that each time you sit the tests the results overwrite your previous test scores. So by resitting them and failing or not reaching enhanced (if your talent pool company require that) you effectively remove yourself from the talent pool by virtue of not achieving the required standard.

Like I say that's my understanding, but there are more experienced people on here so am happy to be corrected.

 

[Eggs&Bacon]

That is exactly what I mean, it can be a very long process. To then sit them again and fail would be gutting. But, as I understand it being in a Talent Pool isn’t a job offer. So do you take the plunge and do them again, or wait it out in a Talent Pool for a job that may not materialise.

 

[Dave Tasty]

That my friend is the million dollar question and one only you can answer. I (and thousands of others) have recently applied to TPE, the word on here is that they will only take results from up to two years ago. I think I am slightly outside of that window, seeing as I am already in a talent pool I would have a tough decision to make - if I make the sift, and there is no guarantee of that.

 

[Red1980]

I've never liked talent pools. I can see why they're used from a company perspective but I've also seen the disappointment they cause and to a certain extent the false hope it sometimes gives.

If I've got my pass and see talent pool jobs going I'd personally steer clear because of the assessment risks etc...... obviously that's if it's true a fail would wipe out your previous pass. It also depends on the level of desperation for the job from the candidate of course.

If you're unsure about talent pools I'd take a look at the east coast thread from a while back.....it's got all of the pros and cons of them in there.

 

[Stigy]

I've never liked talent pools. I can see why they're used from a company perspective but I've also seen the disappointment they cause and to a certain extent the false hope it sometimes gives.

If I've got my pass and see talent pool jobs going I'd personally steer clear because of the assessment risks etc...... obviously that's if it's true a fail would wipe out your previous pass. It also depends on the level of desperation for the job from the candidate of course.

If you're unsure about talent pools I'd take a look at the east coast thread from a while back.....it's got all of the pros and cons of them in there.

It also doesn’t help that TOCs/FOCs/OPC can never seem to give definitive answers about anything such as pass marks being overwritten if you fail and the VSE being part of the psychometric assessments etc.

 

[Red1980]

It also doesn’t help that TOCs/FOCs/OPC can never seem to give definitive answers about anything such as pass marks being overwritten if you fail and the VSE being part of the psychometric assessments etc.

Yes it does seem all of those organisations prefer candidates to have as little knowledge about the whole process, scoring in particular as possible.

 

[43066]

I've never liked talent pools. I can see why they're used from a company perspective but I've also seen the disappointment they cause and to a certain extent the false hope it sometimes gives.

If I've got my pass and see talent pool jobs going I'd personally steer clear because of the assessment risks etc...... obviously that's if it's true a fail would wipe out your previous pass. It also depends on the level of desperation for the job from the candidate of course.

If you're unsure about talent pools I'd take a look at the east coast thread from a while back.....it's got all of the pros and cons of them in there.

Agree with this.

I don’t like talent pools either but they are a symptom of a buyers’ market and unfortunately aren’t going away anytime soon. They give TOCs a resource they can dip into as and when they require, but do not serve the interests of candidates.

Personally if I’d been sat in the GTR talent pool for two years (that thread makes sad reading) I’d be applying elsewhere on the basis that, if you’ve passed the tests once, you should be able to pass them again. The VTEC recruitment thread from a couple of years back also made unhappy reading - quite a few who had been placed into the pool never received offers.

Qualified drivers are also increasingly recruited on a talent pool basis, although these tend to move a lot more quickly because the market for qualified drivers is much smaller and depots only tend to recruit when they have active vacancies.

 

[Stigy]

Agree with this.

I don’t like talent pools either but they are a symptom of a buyers’ market and unfortunately aren’t going away anytime soon. They give TOCs a resource they can dip into as and when they require, but do not serve the interests of candidates.

Personally if I’d been sat in the GTR talent pool for two years (that thread makes sad reading) I’d be applying elsewhere on the basis that, if you’ve passed the tests once, you should be able to pass them again. The VTEC recruitment thread from a couple of years back also made unhappy reading - quite a few who had been placed into the pool never received offers.

Qualified drivers are also increasingly recruited on a talent pool basis, although these tend to move a lot more quickly because the market for qualified drivers is much smaller and depots only tend to recruit when they have active vacancies.

Agreed. It’s much the same with the Freightliner talent pool. I’m certainly glad I was never placed in to it now, as I probably wouldn’t have applied for other jobs on that basis, and this not getting my current job (ironically via a trainee driver talent pool...).

When I went for my DMI with Freightliner, I was assured that if placed in a pool, it wouldn’t be the same as other talent pools, and they merely needed to use them whilst they sorted the logistics of courses out. I wasn’t successful and was gutted at the time, but seeing how many people are in limbo now from about 18-months ago (the same intake as I applied for) I’m glad I wasn’t.

Admittedly things happen on the railway, especially on the freight side of things which affect recruitment, but even so...

 

[Red1980]

Agree with this.

I don’t like talent pools either but they are a symptom of a buyers’ market and unfortunately aren’t going away anytime soon. They give TOCs a resource they can dip into as and when they require, but do not serve the interests of candidates.

Personally if I’d been sat in the GTR talent pool for two years (that thread makes sad reading) I’d be applying elsewhere on the basis that, if you’ve passed the tests once, you should be able to pass them again. The VTEC recruitment thread from a couple of years back also made unhappy reading - quite a few who had been placed into the pool never received offers.

Qualified drivers are also increasingly recruited on a talent pool basis, although these tend to move a lot more quickly because the market for qualified drivers is much smaller and depots only tend to recruit when they have active vacancies.

Yeah I agree.

If TOCs are going to have talent pools they should shorten the time candidates are in there then it kind of takes away their dilemma of wondering whether to apply elsewhere after a period of say 2-3 years in there and jeopardise the pass they've got.

TOCs across the board should have an industry wide timescale that a candidate can sit in a talent pool if for nothing more than their welfare and career! Just tell the candidate at the beginning "you're in this for X amount of time then it's back to square one if you've not heard from us"

If they're insistent on having these talent pools then the time scales tests are valid for should be the same across the board as well.....none of this one TOC accepts a pass for 2 years whilst another does for 5 years nonsense. It's time they started throwing the people applying a bit of a bone to be honest.

This is all a bit " perfect world" obviously but at least everyone knows where they stand.

 

[Eccles1983]

I don't think the tests are to blame for people falling through the cracks.

I suspect it is the standard or level of practical instruction given nowadays. Instructors are under pressure to get through trainees as quick as possible, and with a increasing workload it's inevitable that a higher fail rate is experienced.

TOC driver training is just a production line now. Get them in and out as quick as possible - regardless of route or knowledge gaps.