Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[Thumper1127]

I've trawled RTT and these are the passenger workings (assuming I've got it right!):

Up
0545 Poole to London Waterloo 0746
0651 Southampton Airport Parkway to London Waterloo 0801
0643 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0831
0714 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0852
1015 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1151
1045 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1223
1145 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1323
1445 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1624
1515 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1653
1615 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1754
1915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2051
Down
0800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0936
0830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1008
0930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1108
1230 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1408
1300 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1435
1400 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1534
1700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1836
1715 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea 1900
1730 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1909
1830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2009
1848 London Waterloo to Poole 2108
2105 London Waterloo to Poole 2329


Arrival times may be a bit out by few mins. I think the 0643 from Portsmouth Harbour goes empty to Clapham before coming back to form the 1848 to Poole but I could be wrong.

From a Pompey Direct passenger perspective, the 1700, 1715 and 1730 from Waterloo being 10 442 provides a more consistent product for key peak fast services, bearing in mind that that 1715 was accelerated in the May timetable to not loop at Haslemere, instead being covered by the "new" 1718 Waterloo to Haslemere. If it all works it will be a significant improvement to the evening peak. Should be plenty of seats given that the strike has probably driven optional passengers away for the time being!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I've trawled RTT and these are the passenger workings (assuming I've got it right!):

Up
0545 Poole to London Waterloo 0746
0651 Southampton Airport Parkway to London Waterloo 0801
0643 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0831
0714 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 0852
1015 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1151
1045 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1223
1145 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1323
1445 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1624
1515 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1653
1615 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 1754
1915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo 2051
Down
0800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 0936
0830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1008
0930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1108
1230 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1408
1300 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1435
1400 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1534
1700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1836
1715 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea 1900
1730 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 1909
1830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour 2009
1848 London Waterloo to Poole 2108
2105 London Waterloo to Poole 2329


Arrival times may be a bit out by few mins. I think the 0643 from Portsmouth Harbour goes empty to Clapham before coming back to form the 1848 to Poole but I could be wrong.

From a Pompey Direct passenger perspective, the 1700, 1715 and 1730 from Waterloo being 10 442 provides a more consistent product for key peak fast services, bearing in mind that that 1715 was accelerated in the May timetable to not loop at Haslemere, instead being covered by the "new" 1718 Waterloo to Haslemere. If it all works it will be a significant improvement to the evening peak. Should be plenty of seats given that the strike has probably driven optional passengers away for the time being!

Full diagrams are shown on the frequently requested diagrams page including the ECS and weekend workings (weekends don’t start until the end of the weekend engineering works at Wimbledon)

The stock in Clapham Yard comes out for the 17.00 Pompey not the 18.48 Poole which is formed off the 16.15 ex Pompey. The 18.30 Pompey is Desiro stock not 442 as per your list.

 

[mchd2000]

Interesting, thanks for this. Any idea if the 444s which the 442s are replacing will be cascaded onto current Portsmouth Direct 450 diagrams? If so, is it known which services they are booked for?

 

[hwl]

Does 4 diagrams mean they have at least 8 units (preferably more) with new static converters?

 

[Don Steedy]

Does 4 diagrams mean they have at least 8 units (preferably more) with new static converters?

The original NEI ones have been successfully modified to work within frequency specs now. New ones coming later this year

 

[TEW]

Interesting, thanks for this. Any idea if the 444s which the 442s are replacing will be cascaded onto current Portsmouth Direct 450 diagrams? If so, is it known which services they are booked for?

The diagrams have all changed with the new timetable anyway. The remaining 450s on fast services Monday-Friday as of Monday should be:

Up
1P12 0512 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1G22 0745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P28 0915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P36 1115 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P40 1215 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P44 1315 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (9-444/450)
1P46 1345 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1G60 1715 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P62 1745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P90 0640 Havant to London Waterloo (12-450)
1P18 0710 Havant to London Waterloo (12-450)
1P58 1644 Fareham to London Waterloo (12-450)

Down
1P13 0700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P21 0900 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (12-450)
1P25 1000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P29 1100 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (9-444/450)
1P31 1130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P39 1330 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P43 1430 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P47 1530 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (9-444/450)
1P49 1600 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P57 1800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (12-450)
1P63 1930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P65 2000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P71 2130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P73 2200 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)

 

[RealTrains07]

Stupid question but thought I might as well ask for clarification sakes if anything

The 442s coming back was for them to replace the 450 diagrams on the fast Portsmouth to Waterloo line via Guildford line correct?

I thought I would ask as I have never seen or been aware of any driver training taking place or any 442 actually running through Guildford, Godalming or stations around there before?

 

[Thumper1127]

Thanks for that, not sure how I managed to include the 1830 from Waterloo!

Any idea what the 1718 Waterloo to Haslemere is booked - 8 or 12 450? I’m looking to see what the total capacity is out of Waterloo between 1700 and 1800.

Full diagrams are shown on the frequently requested diagrams page including the ECS and weekend workings (weekends don’t start until the end of the weekend engineering works at Wimbledon)

The stock in Clapham Yard comes out for the 17.00 Pompey not the 18.48 Poole which is formed off the 16.15 ex Pompey. The 18.30 Pompey is Desiro stock not 442 as per your list.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thanks for that, not sure how I managed to include the 1830 from Waterloo!

Any idea what the 1718 Waterloo to Haslemere is booked - 8 or 12 450? I’m looking to see what the total capacity is out of Waterloo between 1700 and 1800.

It should be 12-450

 

[Thumper1127]

Thanks. I haven’t been out of Waterloo in the evening peak since the May timetable change but will be the week after next. It’ll be interesting how, with full formations, the additional 1718 and revised (faster) 1715, leadings will be spread to Guildford and further south.

 

[Bigfoot]

The 442s coming back was for them to replace the 450 diagrams on the fast Portsmouth to Waterloo line via Guildford line correct?

No.

I thought I would ask as I have never seen or been aware of any driver training taking place or any 442 actually running through Guildford, Godalming or stations around there before?

You can be taught how to drive a specific traction type on any route. Route knowledge and traction knowledge are two different things.

As for 442s on the Portsmouth direct there were a couple of services each day before they were withdrawn from service because of the issues of interference with the signalling equipment.

 

[TEW]

Thanks. I haven’t been out of Waterloo in the evening peak since the May timetable change but will be the week after next. It’ll be interesting how, with full formations, the additional 1718 and revised (faster) 1715, leadings will be spread to Guildford and further south.

The 1718 was 8-450 from May to December and didn't look too overcrowded. As a 12-car it should be rather roomy so hopefully take some Guildford passengers off the 1715. I can't recall seeing the 1715 and noticing how busy that was.

 

[Thumper1127]

It will be interesting to see how it settles down with full formations. The additional 1718 was intended to pull passengers off the 1715 which in turn may have seen some passengers for Haslemere and south thereof move from the 1730 to the 1715. It looked a really good plan. I will be aiming for the 1715 one evening and the 1730 the next to see how it has panned out. Getting a bit off the 442 subject as such but it is related.

 

[RealTrains07]

No.

Then what Portsmouth service are they intended to operate?? as the diagrams suggest they are all working the Portsmouth via guildford services?

but iam correct in thinking that the 442s are replacing 450 diagrams so they can be displaced to other routes?

 

[mchd2000]

The diagrams have all changed with the new timetable anyway. The remaining 450s on fast services Monday-Friday as of Monday should be:

Up
1P12 0512 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1G22 0745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P28 0915 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P36 1115 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P40 1215 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P44 1315 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (9-444/450)
1P46 1345 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1G60 1715 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P62 1745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P90 0640 Havant to London Waterloo (12-450)
1P18 0710 Havant to London Waterloo (12-450)
1P58 1644 Fareham to London Waterloo (12-450)

Down
1P13 0700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P21 0900 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (12-450)
1P25 1000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P29 1100 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (9-444/450)
1P31 1130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P39 1330 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P43 1430 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P47 1530 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (9-444/450)
1P49 1600 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P57 1800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (12-450)
1P63 1930 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P65 2000 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P71 2130 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
1P73 2200 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)

Thanks for this - Is it possible for you to provide a complete list of the morning and evening peak formations, please? i.e. arriving into Waterloo between 07:30 and 09:00 and departing on the return between 16:30 and 19:00

 

[theironroad]

Then what Portsmouth service are they intended to operate?? as the diagrams suggest they are all working the Portsmouth via guildford services?

but iam correct in thinking that the 442s are replacing 450 diagrams so they can be displaced to other routes?

Correct.

The 442 project was to bring back 2+2 seating for the 2tph fast services from pompey to London, which has been a desire of Pompey line commuters for years.

444/450 would still be used on stoppers/semis. Excess stock would then cascade to other routes to strengthen trains.

I don't know why Bigfoot said no, because this was the whole aim of the project and still is.

Bigfoot is correct in that driver training on traction doesn't have to been on same route and the vast majority of 442 training has been Fratton to Bournemouth and back via netley.

 

[Thumper1127]

Ultimately they are intended to replace virtually all 450s on the fasts but not the stoppers. Fasts will be covered by 444 or 442. But as they are not all in service yet quite a few 450s will remain on fasts, particularly off peak for a while.

 

[387star]

Saturdays used to be 450 only subday used to be 444 only not sure if still the case

 

[TEW]

Thanks for this - Is it possible for you to provide a complete list of the morning and evening peak formations, please? i.e. arriving into Waterloo between 07:30 and 09:00 and departing on the return between 16:30 and 19:00

Morning
2P96 0602 Haslemere to London Waterloo (8-450)
2P18 0712 Haslemere to London Waterloo (12-450)
1P90 0640 Havant to London Waterloo (12-450)
1P18 0710 Havant to London Waterloo (12-450)
2P92 0640 Hilsea to London Waterloo (12-450)
2P16 0611 Petersfield to London Waterloo (12-450)
2P22 0658 Portsmouth & Southsea to London Waterloo (12-450)
2P12 0425 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
1P12 0512 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)
2P14 0519 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (10-444)
2P90 0550 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (10-444)
1P16 0615 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (10-444)
1G18 0643 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (10-442)
1P20 0714 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (10-442)
2P94 0731 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (10-444)
1G22 0745 Portsmouth Harbour to London Waterloo (8-450)



Evening
1P49 1600 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (8-450)
2P49 1615 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (5-444)
1P51 1631 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (10-444)
2P51 1645 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (12-450)
1P53 1700 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (10-442)
1G53 1715 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea (10-442)
2P53 1718 London Waterloo to Haslemere (12-450)
1P55 1730 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (10-442)
1G55 1745 London Waterloo to Havant (12-450)
1P57 1800 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (12-450)
1G57 1815 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea (10-444)
2P91 1817 London Waterloo to Haslemere (12-450)
1P59 1830 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (10-444)
2P59 1846 London Waterloo to Portsmouth & Southsea (12-450)
1P61 1900 London Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour (10-444)

 

[dctraindriver]

Wonder if it will be as unpopular on 442s as it is with drivers on 455s.

Really? I much prefer the retractioned 455.....

 

[hwl]

The original NEI ones have been successfully modified to work within frequency specs now. New ones coming later this year

Thanks.

 

[Bigfoot]

Really? I much prefer the retractioned 455.....

Exactly!

 

[RichSwitch]

There were two 5Qxx trains today from XBM (Bournemouth T&RSMD) to XGL (Portsmouth & S’sea DCS). These were pathed via Eastleigh. 5Q19 @ 10.42 ex XBM and 5Q42 @ 14.42 ex XBM. Both arrived 28 late @ Fratton(12.38 and 16.38 respectively).

I didn’t see them for myself but I’m assuming both were class 442.

Does anyone know if there was an operational reason why these ran late? Or was it a performance issue?

If it was performance related, we’ll see how the timetabled 9Pxx run tomorrow on the PMH - WAT. Last time in service before being withdrawn due to EMI, these were arriving at both WAT and PMH about 24 late even though all other trains were on time.

I’m also assuming these have not been retractioned yet.

 

[Western Sunset]

2403 + 2408 were on 5Q42 - this left BM on time.

 

[Train Boy]

Tomorrow

2413+2417 down to work;
1G18 0643 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo via Cobham & Stoke D'Abernon
5Y16 08+48 London Waterloo - Clapham Yard Sidings
5P53 15+52 Clapham Yard Sidings - London Waterloo
1P53 1700 London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
1P66 1915 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1B69 2105 London Waterloo - Poole

2403+2408 down to work;
1P20 0714 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1P23 0930 London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
1P38 1145 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1P41 1400 London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
1P56 1615 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1B95 1848 London Waterloo - Poole

No info on the Bournemouth starting diagrams yet. Obviously, can easily be swapped overnight...

 

[HowardGWR]

I've never travelled on a class 442 but from where I live now, it would not be very costly to pick up one at Poole, just to sample it. As I understand it, it's like travelling in an HST (Mark 3 coaches) only with a different noise. Is that right?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I've never travelled on a class 442 but from where I live now, it would not be very costly to pick up one at Poole, just to sample it. As I understand it, it's like travelling in an HST (Mark 3 coaches) only with a different noise. Is that right?

Not far off

 

[joncombe]

I've never travelled on a class 442 but from where I live now, it would not be very costly to pick up one at Poole, just to sample it. As I understand it, it's like travelling in an HST (Mark 3 coaches) only with a different noise. Is that right?

That is how I remember it, but I've not been on them since they left SWT (as was) the first time. The interiors have been changed since then. But I certainly remember it as similar to an HST but the seats were different (without the fixed armrests) and nicely reclined so it was very comfortable.

 

[nlogax]

That is how I remember it, but I've not been on them since they left SWT (as was) the first time. The interiors have been changed since then. But I certainly remember it as similar to an HST but the seats were different (without the fixed armrests) and nicely reclined so it was very comfortable.

Thinking back to their early years on NSE it didn't really feel like an HST to me, mainly because of those seats. Also the smattering of Eddie Pond's works at the ends of the carriages and the general 'new train smell' that certainly didn't inhabit HSTs at the time.

One thing that really felt different was the noise. On HSTs at the time regardless of Mk3 sound insulation the Valentas at both ends were a constant reminder that two diesel engines were integral in getting you from A to B. On 442s while there was the familiar whine from the old REP kit under the motor carriage, the overriding sensation was of peace and quiet for those of us who were well used to Mk1-based EMUs on the same route. Bogie noise was noticeably absent..442s felt like they barely skimmed the tracks and pointwork.

 

[RealTrains07]

Tomorrow

2413+2417 down to work;
1G18 0643 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo via Cobham & Stoke D'Abernon
5Y16 08+48 London Waterloo - Clapham Yard Sidings
5P53 15+52 Clapham Yard Sidings - London Waterloo
1P53 1700 London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
1P66 1915 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1B69 2105 London Waterloo - Poole

2403+2408 down to work;
1P20 0714 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1P23 0930 London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
1P38 1145 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1P41 1400 London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour
1P56 1615 Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo
1B95 1848 London Waterloo - Poole

No info on the Bournemouth starting diagrams yet. Obviously, can easily be swapped overnight...

Are the 442s gonna be working Portsmouth via guildford services going forward or is this temporary??

wouldnt mind catching a 442 to and from Guildford