Future of 22x Units

[greatvoyager]

I may be wrong, but when it comes to the Cardiff-Nottingham route, wouldn't Voyagers be able to make use of 125mph running to make up for increased dwell time?

I'm not sure about the Birmingham to Stansted route as I have less knowledge of it.

Might work.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Be could if cross country took them or if they take tfw 175 and redo them as a intermediate as they will be out of service in a few years

As much as I love 175s, I don't think they'd be best put to use between Cardiff and Nottingham. They offer little improvement over the 170s, maybe more comfortable but that's about it. In fact, they may be worse as they have end doors, and unlike the Voyagers can't run at 125mph to make up for any increase in dwell time.

 

[greatvoyager]

As much as I love 175s, I don't think they'd be best put to use between Cardiff and Nottingham. They offer little improvement over the 170s, maybe more comfortable but that's about it. In fact, they may be worse as they have end doors, and unlike the Voyagers can't run at 125mph to make up for any increase in dwell time.

Voyagers would offer higher speed, it's whether they would work for commuters.

 

[Anonymous10]

As much as I love 175s, I don't think they'd be best put to use between Cardiff and Nottingham. They offer little improvement over the 170s, maybe more comfortable but that's about it. In fact, they may be worse as they have end doors, and unlike the Voyagers can't run at 125mph to make up for any increase in dwell time.

I was saying as a short term fix at least ? Idk if capacity is better

 

[greatvoyager]

I was saying as a short term fix at least ? Idk if capacity is better

It could allow more double formations if some 170s were kept. It would probably have the same problem as voyagers because of the location of the doors.

 

[Anonymous10]

It could allow more double formations if some 170s were kept. It would probably have the same problem as voyagers because of the location of the doors.

To be honest id take the end doors over not enough capacity

 

[greatvoyager]

To be honest id take the end doors over not enough capacity

It depends. The 22x would be able to use higher top speed, but 175s don't have that advantage, so could add to journey time.
I think that really the 22x main priority should be to increase capacity on the long distance intercity routes.

 

[Anonymous10]

It depends. The 22x would be able to use higher top speed, but 175s don't have that advantage, so could add to journey time.
I think that really the 22x main priority should be to increase capacity on the long distance intercity routes.

I'd still like to see increased capacity on Cardiff to Nottingham tho as the trains are often full and with increased capacity comes custom

 

[greatvoyager]

I'd still like to see increased capacity on Cardiff to Nottingham tho as the trains are often full and with increased capacity comes custom

I agree with that, I just don't believe 175s or 22x units are the best idea.

 

[Anonymous10]

I agree with that, I just don't believe 175s or 22x units are the best idea.

What in your opinion is the best option

 

[greatvoyager]

What in your opinion is the best option

Maybe a 185? Bigger doors and more consistent capacity as all are the same length. Failing that a 195 type of train.

 

[Anonymous10]

Maybe a 185? Bigger doors and more consistent capacity as all are the same length. Failing that a 195 type of train.

Maybe going for the same civity as tfw with different seats more suited to long distance would be a good idea as then maybe they could strike a cooperation agreement on maintenance from Cardiff

 

[greatvoyager]

The 222s could do with a deep clean.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Maybe a 185? Bigger doors and more consistent capacity as all are the same length. Failing that a 195 type of train.

If some 185s are leaving TPE (I'm reluctant to definitively say they are, as they will still be running Cleethorpes- Manchester, and potentially Liverpool- Nottingham in the future) then I'd be happy to see a few replace the two car 170s. Replacing three car 170s with three car 185s seems a bit redundant in my view.

As for 195s or another type of train from the Civity family, I'd say they'd be adequate, provided they were 4 carriages or more.

 

[Anonymous10]

If some 185s are leaving TPE (I'm reluctant to definitively say they are, as they will still be running Cleethorpes- Manchester, and potentially Liverpool- Nottingham in the future) then I'd be happy to see a few replace the two car 170s. Replacing three car 170s with three car 185s seems a bit redundant in my view.

As for 195s or another type of train from the Civity family, I'd say they'd be adequate, provided they were 4 carriages or more.

I'd say retain the 170s as if there weren't enough 185s they could run double or more 170s

 

[greatvoyager]

If some 185s are leaving TPE (I'm reluctant to definitively say they are, as they will still be running Cleethorpes- Manchester, and potentially Liverpool- Nottingham in the future) then I'd be happy to see a few replace the two car 170s. Replacing three car 170s with three car 185s seems a bit redundant in my view.

As for 195s or another type of train from the Civity family, I'd say they'd be adequate, provided they were 4 carriages or more.

Totally agree.

 

[coradiafan2000]

The 222s could do with a deep clean.

Last time I was on a 222 a couple of months ago, they seemed pretty clean?

 

[greatvoyager]

Last time I was on a 222 a couple of months ago, they seemed pretty clean?

Some of them are a bit dusty.

 

[greatvoyager]

Maybe going for the same civity as tfw with different seats more suited to long distance would be a good idea as then maybe they could strike a cooperation agreement on maintenance from Cardiff

Agreed.

 

[greatvoyager]

I'd say retain the 170s as if there weren't enough 185s they could run double or more 170s

Totally agree.

 

[greatvoyager]

Last time I was on a 222 a couple of months ago, they seemed pretty clean?

To be honest, I don't think as much effort will be put in seeing as their being replaced.

 

[coradiafan2000]

To be honest, I don't think as much effort will be put in seeing as their being replaced.

In terms of comfort, I think 222s are superior to 80xs in almost every way, but the 800s SMELL clean. Probably just because they're new.

 

[greatvoyager]

In terms of comfort, I think 222s are superior to 80xs in almost every way, but the 800s SMELL clean. Probably just because they're new.

That's true.

 

[Bosch91]

Has a re-power ever been on the cards? As I understand a major factor of tocs not wanting these units is that they drink fuel. Engine technology has progressed a lot since the early 2000’s. Surely a engine change for newer more efficient engines (and greener) if a refurbishment ever happens.

 

[greatvoyager]

Has a re-power ever been on the cards? As I understand a major factor of tocs not wanting these units is that they drink fuel. Engine technology has progressed a lot since the early 2000’s. Surely a engine change for newer more efficient engines (and greener) if a refurbishment ever happens.

The fuel consumption, although high, is a little exaggerated. I think it comes down to how much longer the units will be in service. Usually around 30-35 years, so they're around about half life now, it would depend whether anyone would be prepared to pay for it.

 

[greatvoyager]

Also, 222s could do with having more standard class seating in lieu of first class.

 

[Bosch91]

The fuel consumption, although high, is a little exaggerated. I think it comes down to how much longer the units will be in service. Usually around 30-35 years, so they're around about half life now, it would depend whether anyone would be prepared to pay for it.

I guess it will just come down to cost, especially if they are still reliable which they seem to be. With them desperate for a mid life refurbishment and especially calls for diesels to clean up thier act a re-engine Program doesn’t seem that far fetched.

 

[greatvoyager]

I guess it will just come down to cost, especially if they are still reliable which they seem to be. With them desperate for a mid life refurbishment and especially calls for diesels to clean up thier act a re-engine Program doesn’t seem that far fetched.

I agree.

 

[greatvoyager]

In terms of comfort, I think 222s are superior to 80xs in almost every way, but the 800s SMELL clean. Probably just because they're new.

I think it would be nice if all 22x units had a better smell.

 

[The Ham]

The fuel consumption, although high, is a little exaggerated. I think it comes down to how much longer the units will be in service. Usually around 30-35 years, so they're around about half life now, it would depend whether anyone would be prepared to pay for it.

The fuel usage is also compared on a per seat basis, as such they look bad compared to a 7 or 8 coach HST. Like many complaints, if they were longer units then this would likely be better.