Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[Peter Bonner]

I gather 720522 is now at Worksop.

Many thanks. Cdnt see any carriage numbers on the sides at all. Maybe they are smaller than ever.

 

[greaterangrier]

Must have been 881, there is no 681 lol There for PRM mods no doubt

ooh my lovely eyesight

 

[Class 170101]

Cant find a class 90 thread... 90014 made its way from Norwich to Crewe today behind a large logo 37.

Higher level maintenance exams are done away from Crown Point, at Crewe.

 

[59CosG95]

A rake of Mark 3s (with DVT 82136 at the London end) is currently stabled at Harwich Parkestone Yard, awaiting the move to the scrappers' at Sims Metals, Newport, tomorrow. 90013 is also present, but no word yet on when it'll go to FL.

 

[Murray J]

I didn't realise there were mark 3 sets heading to FL.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I didn't realise there were marl 3 sets heading to FL.

It's just the Class 90s (90003-90015 I believe) going to Freightliner, the coaches and DVT's for store/scrap. 90001 and 90002 going to Locomotive Services I believe

 

[DannyMich2018]

For a short while, it won't be long before they're replaced by 170s.

Well this is depending on West Midlands Railway receiving it's new Class 196's, considering none have been delivered yet and then they'll be several months at least testing/training Id' say be at least a year of full 158 operation for EMR.

 

[43096]

It's just the Class 90s (90003-90015 I believe) going to Freightliner, the coaches and DVT's for store/scrap. 90001 and 90002 going to Locomotive Services I believe

90001/2 are already owned by LSL and 90003-15 have transferred to Freightliner ownership.

 

[Murray J]

It's just the Class 90s (90003-90015 I believe) going to Freightliner, the coaches and DVT's for store/scrap. 90001 and 90002 going to Locomotive Services I believe

ah ok, just sounded to me like you were talking about the coaches.

 

[Railperf]

Just clarifying - all of GA ex - BR DMU's have now left - classes 153 156 and 170?
And what are the lease-end dates for:
Class 90 and Mk3's?
Class 315?
Class 317?
Class 321?
Class 360?
Class 379?

 

[samuelmorris]

Just clarifying - all of GA ex - BR DMU's have now left - classes 153 156 and 170?
And what are the lease-end dates for:
Class 90 and Mk3's?
Class 315?
Class 317?
Class 321?
Class 360?
Class 379?

The info I've read in this thread suggests that is indeed the case - exclusively 755s on the rural lines now.

GA don't have any 315s, TfL are hanging onto some of theirs for a while yet until the Crossrail mess is finally sorted, they are now occasionally being sent to LO to replace units in need of major work / exams prior to the 710s arriving - once they do, some LO units may end up doing the reverse.
I'm not sure on the lease dates for the fleet but to my knowledge, the 360s will be leaving first so they can join EMR. No new home has been announced for any of the other multiple units yet. The 90s will be gone as soon as practically possible as they are joining Freightliner, I believe one set of coaching stock has already been withdrawn. Leases for the other stock are likely to be extended as appropriate to cover the delay to the 720s, though I suspect the 379s are the least likely to be extended as they are famously expensive to lease (hence being replaced in the first place).

With at least an 18 month delay to the introduction to the 720s, the original lease end dates aren't really relevant any more.

 

[RailWonderer]

Given there is only 1 720 at Ilford so far, and with 6 months left on the 360 lease before they go off to refurb to join EMR in the December, it’s practically certain catastrophe on the GEML lies ahead, especially in the morning and evening peaks. Many 12 car bins will become 8 and 8 will become 4 to replace the 360s, many of which work in 12s and 8s and split and join during the day. I’m surprised we haven’t seen a Scotrail 365 situation when their 385s were delayed for windscreen curvature issues. Are GA that myopic/optimistic? The only problem is clearances and the complexity of having to clear all branches as opposed to just Glasgow-Dunblane like it was in Scotland.

As for the 379s, they don’t hve any work lined up for them so I suppose a new cheaper lease could be signed. It is always assumed the ROSCO (MacQuarie Lloyds) aren’t ever open to a renegotiation on new terms.

 

[capital12]

You’d like to think at the very least they’d temporarily take on the 8x PRM compliant 321/322s when Northern are finished with them?

 

[James321]

Means 321s will replace 360s until new 720s arrives in and replace all 321s?

 

[samuelmorris]

Given there is only 1 720 at Ilford so far, and with 6 months left on the 360 lease before they go off to refurb to join EMR in the December, it’s practically certain catastrophe on the GEML lies ahead, especially in the morning and evening peaks. Many 12 car bins will become 8 and 8 will become 4 to replace the 360s, many of which work in 12s and 8s and split and join during the day. I’m surprised we haven’t seen a Scotrail 365 situation when their 385s were delayed for windscreen curvature issues. Are GA that myopic/optimistic? The only problem is clearances and the complexity of having to clear all branches as opposed to just Glasgow-Dunblane like it was in Scotland.

As for the 379s, they don’t hve any work lined up for them so I suppose a new cheaper lease could be signed. It is always assumed the ROSCO (MacQuarie Lloyds) aren’t ever open to a renegotiation on new terms.

I think it's pretty much a certainty now that sufficient 720s will not be in passenger service by the time the 360 lease expires. Either the 360s will stay longer at GA than intended and EMR's electric services to Corby will be delayed, or 321s will stand-in for 360s (and I imagine an according number of peak services will be dropped from 12 to 8-car to compensate). I suspect what might happen is a little bit of both - a bit like how the 172s stayed on the Goblin longer than intended but eventually had to be sent on their way and the service was a bit of a disaster until the new units were ready. It's possible some old 317s from LO will be dragged out but I'm not convinced that'll happen, there won't be that many drivers trained on them and a lot of them probably have major services looming that are trying to be avoided.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I'm sure that there will be some external factors completely outside the control of Greater Anglia at play as well in a few months time, just like there were signalling faults with the rural fleet which were nothing to do with the design and performance of the new trains.

Even if they are able to replace all the 360s with the same number of 720s by the time that they go off lease, there will still be short forms all over the place since you cannot see the 720s getting anywhere near the class leading MTIN of the 360s.

 

[AC47461]

You’d like to think at the very least they’d temporarily take on the 8x PRM compliant 321/322s when Northern are finished with them?

That's exactly what I've been thinking. GA should be all over these when they become available. There may be small differences, and only 8 units, but it's a bit of a no-brainer even as a stop gap. They managed to integrate the ex-GTR ones quick enough. It would certainly be quicker than bringing in the (possibly only) other solution which would be the spare 365s, given they'd need to be passed to run, driver training, staff training etc. (a whole host of other things more knowledgeable people on here than me would know about).

 

[Shunter_69]

There are only 21 x 360’s so to assume a disaster is on the horizon in 6 months is a tad over the top

 

[samuelmorris]

There are only 21 x 360’s so to assume a disaster is on the horizon in 6 months is a tad over the top

Not really - losing 21 units without any to cover for them will have a serious impact. It shouldn't result in too many cancellations, but that's a lot of daily short-forms until sufficient 720s come along to replace them.

 

[captainbigun]

That's people being left on platforms during both peaks. That would be untenable for Abelio, so they must have a plan.

 

[trebor79]

Maybe they could hang onto some of the Mk3 sets and either run them on the suburban routes. Or more likely put some 755s and/or 745s onto the suburban routes for a while.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There are only 21 x 360’s so to assume a disaster is on the horizon in 6 months is a tad over the top

Already there are a number of services short formed every evening due in part to 321s being borrowed for Norwich. With the 745 rollout being slowed to a halt again and the MK3 rakes not able to be used past the end of March, it's likely even more EMUs will have to be used on Norwich services.

You won't be able to simply allocate 21x Class 321 trains to the diagrams that are run by 21x 360 and everything will run the same as it is now since the MTIN of the 360s is much higher than the 321s, so that alone will cause more short formations and honestly the 360 accleration is vastly better than the 321s which helps them make up delays etc as well.

 

[Trainfan344]

Hire in a couple of 88s from DRS and run them with the Mk3s while the 745s cover the suburban diagrams or bring back the short set on the local lines between Norwich and Yarmouth/Lowestoft using 68s again...

 

[Wivenswold]

While I agree things will be tight, I think there's a little too much doom, not to mention Machiavellian "hopecasting"

We seem to be forgetting that 30 x 379s will cascade to WA lines shortly as the Stansted Express 745s are next for introduction (last estimate I saw was April/May 20) Those 379s are also cleared on the GEML and Harwich Branch and Ilford 317s can also be used on the GEML. So long as non-PRM 321 leases/authorisation are flexible there shouldn't been too much disruption.

So long as there are no serious teething problems introducing 720s on the Southend Vic line by early summer(and the 345s didn't seem to disagree with that branch) then things aren't looking too bad.

Lots of "ifs" though. Essex voted Tory last year, I think any problems will be quickly resolved by DfT. Though we do have a PM who prefers shiny new infrastructure rather than dirty old railways for the proletariat.

 

[samuelmorris]

Those 379s are also cleared on the GEML and Harwich Branch and Ilford 317s can also be used on the GEML

But as far as I'm aware the staff that can drive them are not? One unit is one matter, but bringing almost the entire fleet across I think will have some difficulties.

I wouldn't read much into the politics, Essex is a Tory stronghold and isn't going anywhere any time soon. No need to be seen to putting a lot of effort in.

 

[Shunter_69]

My point was you have 6 months to bring in 21 x 720 and with 50 already built that shouldn’t be an issue if they have learnt from the 345/710 introduction.

 

[Bringback309s]

Shame the 315s have been scrapped. They could have stood in on Walton's, Harwich's, Southminster's and peaks to Southend...

 

[samuelmorris]

Shame the 315s have been scrapped. They could have stood in on Walton's, Harwich's, Southminster's and peaks to Southend...

Very few of them have. However, at 75mph units they are not suitable to run many fast services without timetable adjustments.

My point was you have 6 months to bring in 21 x 720 and with 50 already built that shouldn’t be an issue if they have learnt from the 345/710 introduction.

6 months is not long enough to bring 21 units in yet (technically only 14 could replace the 360s as they are 50% longer units, but given the lower reliability they'll have to begin with, 21 would be about right). Testing hasn't even started.

 

[Shunter_69]

But as far as I'm aware the staff that can drive them are not? One unit is one matter, but bringing almost the entire fleet across I think will have some difficulties.

I wouldn't read much into the politics, Essex is a Tory stronghold and isn't going anywhere any time soon. No need to be seen to putting a lot of effort in.

Ilford drivers sign 317 already so a few modified diagrams could cover some of the shortfall by running to Ipswich and Braintree.

 

[Wivenswold]

It looks tight, I'll give you that but it's not gone wrong yet and I baffled regarding the clamber to call it first. Predicting the future at the moment is a foolish approach.

There would be time to make some diagrams to 379s and train a small roster's worth of drivers. The 379s were, after all, the original back-up plan when it was thought the Stadlers would take longer to introduce than the Aventras, which brings me nicely back to predicting the future.