Atherton Line

[L+Y]

Inspired by the fact I've just left Hindley station... when was the four track formation cut down to just two? And was the line from Crow Nest Junction to Lostock Junction ever four tracked?

I've a photo of C.N.J. in about 1972 showing four tracks branching in each direction, to Daisy Hill and to Lostock, albeit clearly with each route having only two tracks in use at that point.

 

[edwin_m]

The Atherton line had two tracks for suburban services, which are the ones that remain, and two more as a fast route between Manchester and Liverpool which avoided Wigan (these are now closed). There was also a link towards Preston avoiding Bolton. You will notice that most of the stations only have platforms on the northern pair of lines.

 

[Grannyjoans]

I assume Hag Fold station must have been built after it had been reduced to two tracks ? That is the only station on the route where I can't imagine four tracks ever being accomodated.
It must have been a very busy route at one time to have four tracks. Even parts of the WCML only have two tracks!

 

[S&CLER]

Inspired by the fact I've just left Hindley station... when was the four track formation cut down to just two? And was the line from Crow Nest Junction to Lostock Junction ever four tracked?

I've a photo of C.N.J. in about 1972 showing four tracks branching in each direction, to Daisy Hill and to Lostock, albeit clearly with each route having only two tracks in use at that point.

Crow Nest to Lostock Junction was never 4 tracks all the way(e.g. through Westhoughton station was always 2 tracks), but 2 of the 4 tracks from Crow Nest curved round to join the Hilton House cut-off (from the Atherton line to near Blackrod) at a point where there was a box known as "H&B" (Hindley and Blackrod Branch Junction). There was a station called Dicconson Lane about 1/4 mile north of this junction.

 

[edwin_m]

I assume Hag Fold station must have been built after it had been reduced to two tracks ? That is the only station on the route where I can't imagine four tracks ever being accomodated.
It must have been a very busy route at one time to have four tracks. Even parts of the WCML only have two tracks!

1987 according to Wikipedia. One other major impediment to reinstating the four tracks would be the bridges of the M60 and parallel roads, which were only built to 2-track width.

 

[Momo and diggy]

The Atherton line is the former lancashire and Yorkshire mainline from Manchester to Liverpool the Atherton line was the Lancashire and Yorkshire main line from Manchester to Liverpool leaving the Bolton line at windsor bridge junction now Salford crescent. The fast lines where in the right hand side but bridged over the slow lines at brindle heath to appear on the left hand side the track bed still visible. Four tracks continued through to hindley where the line splits with 2 tracks going on the direct route to pemberton and 2 tracks going to wigan wallgate

 

[Momo and diggy]

I assume Hag Fold station must have been built after it had been reduced to two tracks ? That is the only station on the route where I can't imagine four tracks ever being accomodated.
It must have been a very busy route at one time to have four tracks. Even parts of the WCML only have two tracks!

. Hag fold was opened well after the line was reduced but Atherton and hindley had fast line platforms although they were rarely used. The line was fairly busy in the morning quiet in the afternoon before bursting into life from 4 pm till 6 30 pm

 

[Bevan Price]

I assume Hag Fold station must have been built after it had been reduced to two tracks ? That is the only station on the route where I can't imagine four tracks ever being accomodated.
It must have been a very busy route at one time to have four tracks. Even parts of the WCML only have two tracks!

There was lots of coal traffic, much coming from several collieries served by the Atherton route.
Plus express passenger services between Manchester, Southport and Liverpool Exchange, with 75 mph permitted for much of the route.
Crow Nest Jn to Lostock Jn (Bolton line), and Hindley No.3 Jn to Wigan Wallgate were never more than double track.

 

[Springs Branch]

Inspired by the fact I've just left Hindley station... when was the four track formation cut down to just two? .......

A couple of sources give closure date for the fast lines between Hindley - Atherton - Pendleton as 6 September 1965.

The tracks seem to have stayed in place for a year or two after that, since there are photos of locations on the Atherton line in the last days of steam showing rusty rails still in place and signal posts with arms removed for the fast lines. A delay was hardly surprising since so much railway was closed around South Lancashire in 1965/66 that the scrap men must have found it hard to keep up.

The cut-off lines from Dobbs Brow Jn and Crow Nest Jn to Blackrod via H&B (mentioned by @S&CLER) lasted a bit longer - closed 9 September 1968.

To the west of Hindley station, a short section of former "fast" lines hung on longer still. Access to/from the Westwood Park line to Pemberton was from Hindley No.2 Junction and used the fast lines until the four tracks parting course after the A577 road bridge - although traffic via Westwood Park was very sparse at the end, down to one train per day M-Fri. Official closure date of this bit was 14 July 1969.

A 1956 photo of the impressive ironmongery at Crow Nest, with a bit of commentary in is on the Signal Box website at: https://www.signalbox.org/branches/jh/crownestjcn.htm

A more depressing early-1970s picture of partly-dismantled fast lines at Hindley No.2 Junction was posted by Karen Smith on the Wigan World website.
http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/album/photo.php?opt=5&id=5462

 

[yorksrob]

I remember being amazed to find out that Atherton once had another island platform.

You wouldn't know it from standing on the existing one !

 

[Momo and diggy]

I remember being amazed to find out that Atherton once had another island platform.

You wouldn't know it from standing on the existing one !

No it had 2 single platforms on either side

 

[yorksrob]

No it had 2 single platforms on either side

Really? Because the current platform canopy looks as though it's been there for 100 years, and it always looks as though its been an island platform.

 

[Momo and diggy]

Really? Because the current platform canopy looks as though it's been there for 100 years, and it always looks as though its been an island platform.

Sorry to mislead you the current island platforms had additional single platforms on either side has Atherton had fast and slow line platforms. The current island platform now has trains running in the opposite direction to when it was quadruple track using the old westbound fast line and the old westbound slow line

 

[Momo and diggy]

Sorry should be the old eastbound fast line and the old we

Sorry to mislead you the current island platforms had additional single platforms on either side has Atherton had fast and slow line platforms. The current island platform now has trains running in the opposite direction to when it was quadruple track using the old westbound fast line and the old westbound slow line

stbound slow line

Sorry to mislead you the current island platforms had additional single platforms on either side has Atherton had fast and slow line platforms. The current island platform now has trains running in the opposite direction to when it was quadruple track using the old westbound fast line and the old westbound slow line

 

[yorksrob]

Sorry to mislead you the current island platforms had additional single platforms on either side has Atherton had fast and slow line platforms. The current island platform now has trains running in the opposite direction to when it was quadruple track using the old westbound fast line and the old westbound slow line

Yes, I've seen the remains of the old outside platform on the South side.

Eventhough it's reduced from the glory days, whenever I've been there it's always well used and retains good facilities and shelter, which is good to see.

 

[Momo and diggy]

Sorry should be the old eastbound slow line

 

[Momo and diggy]

There was lots of coal traffic, much coming from several collieries served by the Atherton route.
Plus express passenger services between Manchester, Southport and Liverpool Exchange, with 75 mph permitted for much of the route.
Crow Nest Jn to Lostock Jn (Bolton line), and Hindley No.3 Jn to Wigan Wallgate were never more than double track.

there were also express trains to blackpool using black 5s and jubilees +the occasional patriot and the Windermere trains usually a jubilee, royal Scot or a Britannia as well as Liverpool exchange to Newcastle usually a bank hall jubilee or 45517

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The cut-off lines from Dobbs Brow Jn and Crow Nest Jn to Blackrod via H&B (mentioned by @S&CLER) lasted a bit longer - closed 9 September 1968.

Is this the same line that once had two railway stations, that both closed in 1954:-
Hilton House
Dicconson Lane and Aspull

 

[Springs Branch]

there were also express trains to blackpool using black 5s and jubilees +the occasional patriot and the Windermere trains usually a jubilee, royal Scot or a Britannia as well as Liverpool exchange to Newcastle usually a bank hall jubilee or 45517

It's interesting to note that local stopping trains were pretty much a third priority on the Atherton line from the line's opening in 1888 through to early BR days.

The line's original two main purposes - as mentioned by @Bevan Price - were to cater for express trains from Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Exchange, Southport and Blackpool and the north (avoiding the bottleneck at Bolton) and to shift millions of tons of coal from the local coalfield (much of this going to Liverpool Docks via the Westwood Park line and the sorting sidings at Aintree).

Unlike today, stopping trains were few and far between, and towns along the line weren't considered to be commuter suburbs for Manchester in the same way that those along the Bury, Altrincham or Styal lines became. In British Rail days trains did not stop at any of the Atherton line stations during the mid-day off-peak period (although the station ticket offices were still staffed!)

The line's fortunes only changed when the GMPTE became serious about developing local rail services, and of course today its regular services are all local trains (even though some do run through to/from Leeds).

Is this the same line that once had two railway stations, that both closed in 1954:-
Hilton House
Dicconson Lane and Aspull

Yes, that's the line.

 

[edwin_m]

Unlike today, stopping trains were few and far between, and towns along the line weren't considered to be commuter suburbs for Manchester in the same way that those along the Bury, Altrincham or Styal lines became. In British Rail days trains did not stop at any of the Atherton line stations during the mid-day off-peak period (although the station ticket offices were still staffed!)

Basically most people living in the towns on the Atherton line worked locally. There would have been relatively few commuters into Manchester, and most of them would have been affluent enough to live in one of those leafy suburbs rather than a colliery town. The shift of economic activity from mining and manufacturing to services, which were more concentrated in central Manchester, created a need for commuting and also freed up rail capacity. Unfortunately what's missing is the investment that would make those commuter journeys truly attractive.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Basically most people living in the towns on the Atherton line worked locally. There would have been relatively few commuters into Manchester, and most of them would have been affluent enough to live in one of those leafy suburbs rather than a colliery town. The shift of economic activity from mining and manufacturing to services, which were more concentrated in central Manchester, created a need for commuting and also freed up rail capacity. Unfortunately what's missing is the investment that would make those commuter journeys truly attractive.

A well phrased response. Look at what was once the Tyldesley loop line, upon which the Leigh Guided Busway was built on as far as Ellenbrook from the Leigh area in the Manchester-bound direction.

 

[Momo and diggy]

In the 1960s there was a reasonable service to both Wigan and manchester in the early morning from walkden till 9 30 an when trains departed to both Southport and manchester. The next train to Manchester departed 4 30 pm whilst in the Wigan direction there was a train to Southport at 1 30 pm and then to wigan at 4 30pm. There was a train to Blackpool in the summer leaving at about 10 o'clock

 

[Grannyjoans]

The line's original two main purposes - as mentioned by @Bevan Price - were to cater for express trains from Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Exchange, Southport and Blackpool and the north (avoiding the bottleneck at Bolton) and to shift millions of tons of coal from the local coalfield (much of this going to Liverpool Docks via the Westwood Park line and the sorting sidings at Aintree).

It sounds like the line used to be very interesting from the trainspotters point of view. Very much the opposite to today.
When did the line lose its express trains ?
I've heard that there was still some freight using the line in the 1980s, is this right ?
I'm aware that by the 1990s there was none at all.

 

[Momo and diggy]

It sounds like the line used to be very interesting from the trainspotters point of view. Very much the opposite to today.
When did the line lose its express trains ?
I've heard that there was still some freight using the line in the 1980s, is this right ?
I'm aware that by the 1990s there was none at all.

the express trains and freight all seemed to disappear when steam ceased in 1968 and the line looked a certain candidate for closure. Fortunately the line survived with a more frequent dmu local service and the occasional merrymaker excursion trains, the platforms were a lot longer then. Nowadays the daytime service is on average 3 trains an hour and we now have a regular freight working after a gap of 50 years with the wilton Knowsley binliner passing Atherton at about 1400 hours

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just a mention of this line that was part of the journey route of one of those "Manchester Rail Travel Club" train services to quite long distance destinations in the very early 1980s, as the one in question was the only "Mystery Tour to a seaside destination" one we ever dared to venture upon and the twins were about six years old and had brought their buckets and spades. When the train was passing through Daisy Hill station, the train staff made an announcement that the destination was ... Largs. The twins were very upset to find no sand on the beach at Largs, just pebbles!!!

 

[edwin_m]

the express trains and freight all seemed to disappear when steam ceased in 1968 and the line looked a certain candidate for closure. Fortunately the line survived with a more frequent dmu local service and the occasional merrymaker excursion trains, the platforms were a lot longer then. Nowadays the daytime service is on average 3 trains an hour and we now have a regular freight working after a gap of 50 years with the wilton Knowsley binliner passing Atherton at about 1400 hours

It was essentially a duplicate route between Manchester and Liverpool, from the days when the L&Y, LNW and CLC were all competing for this traffic - I believe it offered the fastest journey at one time. Closing it as a fast through route didn't cause major disadvantages as it didn't serve anywhere major in between (Wigan was avoided) and enabled the concentration of services at Lime Street and conversion of the Liverpool end to Merseyrail. Its other role was to allow services between Manchester and Preston avoiding Bolton, but no doubt the demise of the massive Blackpool holiday traffic made that largely redundant.

 

[Springs Branch]

If you're interested in seeing photos of the Atherton line in steam days (in all its four-track glory), take a look at the W.D Cooper gallery on-line at: http://www.cooperline.com/wd_index.asp

The site is easy enough to use via the search boxes:-

Engine year: leave blank
Engine class: All
Year: Any
Location: Use drop-down menu to find locations such as Daisy Hill, Dobbs Brow, Walkden Troughs, Pendlebury Bank etc.​

Then click on green "Search" button.

As a native of Patricroft & Swinton, quite a lot of Wilfred Cooper's photographs were taken along the Atherton line in the 1950s & 60s. Some of these images have been published elsewhere - a lot of them I'd never seen before.

It sounds like the line used to be very interesting from the trainspotters point of view. Very much the opposite to today. When did the line lose its express trains? ......

There certainly was more variety of traffic in the past, but as mentioned, this very much petered out by 1968.

1968 was the year most regular Liverpool Exchange - Man Vic - Bradford/Leeds DMU expresses were withdrawn, along with the last Manchester - Blackpool residential expresses routed via Atherton and the Dobbs Brow - Blackrod line.

At the end of summer 1968, two timetabled loco-hauled Summer Saturday workings also finished - one from Morley Low via Huddersfield & Stalybridge to Blackpool N., another from Leicester London Rd via Chinley to Blackpool N. Both trains used the Atherton - Dobbs Brow - Blackrod route, and no doubt there were other one-off loco-hauled excursions & specials to Blackpool/Morecambe etc using this cut-off before it finally closed in September 1968.

From July 1969, the Atherton line only usually saw DMUs to/from Wigan Wallgate and Southport, except for one return summer Saturday DMU which started at Pendleton Broad St, called at all stations as far as Daisy Hill, then via DeTrafford Jn, Whelley line & Standish Jn to Blackpool N. The through train between local stations & Blackpool ended at the end of summer 1971, just before the Whelley line closed.

During the 1970s there were still a few expresses along the line to/from Southport - daily fast commuter trains (stopping only at Southport, Meols Cop, Wigan W., Salford) & Man Vic), plus a few limited-stop trains timed for Manchester - Southport bucket & spade day trippers (although a lot of these ran via Bolton).

 

[Momo and diggy]

Until about 10 years ago there was a summer only train to Blackpool North routed over De trafford junction whelley and Standish and later via Wigan North western. In the 1990s it was loco hauled by a class 37 for a couple of years with mk. 1 coaches some in network southeast livery

 

[Philip]

Were the fast lines 70 or 75mph? I've read elsewhere that it was 70, but stated further up as 75. Was welded rail used for the fast lines? It's hard to imagine the Atherton line as anything other than noisy jointed rail!

I doubt anything above 50mph was achievable anyway until Walkden if going west, given the steep climb from Pendleton to Swinton.

 

[Momo and diggy]

Were the fast lines 70 or 75mph? I've read elsewhere that it was 70, but stated further up as 75. Was welded rail used for the fast lines? It's hard to imagine the Atherton line as anything other than noisy jointed rail! The line between walkden and atherton was only welded about six years ago. As far As I can remember the fast lines were never welded but the black 5s, jubilees, patriots,and Britannia were certainly going faster than 60 so 70 to 75 seems about right.

I doubt anything above 50mph was achievable anyway until Walkden if going west, given the steep climb from Pendleton to Swinton.

did a lot spotting at walkden you could hear the jubilee roar long before the train appeared