• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Transdev Blazefield

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,065
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I’ll offer you a perspective as a VAMOOZ operator (as well as a good friend of AH, for what‘ that’s worth.

Others have made the point very eloquently that success and failure are difficult to define. The bus industry often defines success in terms of territory - essentially a life-sized version of the board game ‘Risk’ - and something is only a success if there there’s lots of it and it is seen to expand. The reality is a lot more nuanced.

Over the last few years huge amounts of time and effort have been expended trying to find new models - other than the conventional fixed line bus route concept - that would expand the market for bus travel. Everyone involved recognises that it’s a hugely difficult space but that there’s something there worth exploring. You would expect an international group like Transdev to be as keen as anyone else to be in that space.

But as with many industries, so called R&D - research and development of new products - is a very distinct activity from every day business, so the criteria for success and failure will be far more subtle than just how much money it makes or how big it gets, and essentially will be a matter for the innovator to decide and no one else. Bluntly, they do it for their own reasons with their own money so they get to decide where the goalposts are.

For me, there is nothing wrong with the basic premise of VAMOOZ - the idea of crowdfunded bus services. Historically, one of the big problems of new service development has been that a bunch of people will say there is a demand; the bus operator won’t want to take the risk so there’s no way of proving either way. VAMOOZ creates a platform to break through that logjam: you float an idea, and if enough people sign up, it runs, and if they don’t, it doesn’t.

Like many R&D projects, you learn as you go, and while I don’t have inside knowledge, it seems to me that the VAMOOZ team pretty quickly realised that using it as a platform to stimulate demand for individual events/day trips etc was a pretty inefficient use of scarce resource and that the real value was in establishing home-to-school and home-to-work links that wouldn’t otherwise have found a way to exist. The fact that those links have been created, and survive, combined with the fact that VAMOOZ was a much cheaper platform to develop compared to many demand-based apps, suggests that it was a success.

We got involved at CT Plus because I was (and remain) keen to develop our Yorkshire business but we have generally had a very low commercial profile in the area. We had ideas for new links that we felt would be far more likely to attract support from non-traditional bus using communities if they were associated with a sexy looking app than with our own brand that most people probably wouldn’t be familiar with that mainly ran elderly double deckers on school runs.

It hasn’t really happened, partly because of time constraints and partly because we haven’t been able to bring those opportunities to fruition for other reasons. But given that the entire risk to us was the cost of painting one double decker, which is peanuts in the grand scheme of things, well frankly, so what!? We’re not actively pursuing any VAMOOZ projects at the moment but it still very much exists as a concept and one phone call tomorrow and we could be off and running!

I can’t speak for other operators who joined the platform - I’ve a feeling one or two of them thought something magical was going to happen without them putting any effort in, which is a bit unhelpful if true - but I know in some cases it has indirectly led to things that may not have VAMOOZ stamped on the side but probably wouldn’t have existed had it not been for that brand generating interest and opening doors.

Finally, the fact that the VAMOOZ project manager is now the Marketing Manager for Transdev as a whole, should give a pretty clear indication of how those within the business feel about the project!

So it’s impossible for anyone who wasn’t sat round the board table when the project was first conceived - I certainly wasn’t - to really know whether it’s a success or failure, but I guess my point is that innovation is about far more than just a short term return on investment and that a project like VAMOOZ has to be viewed with a great deal more subtlety and insight.

Thanks @PhilStockley - good to get an opinion with some insight behind the Vamooz project if not intimate detail.

It does seem, as you suggest, that those behind Vamooz quickly appreciated what it was good for and not. As others have said, it is those key learnings that they've established and with limited capital spend.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

SCH117X

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2015
Messages
1,574
It actually started as a result of Transdev being asked by Ripon parents to provided a school bus to Harrogate and as Phil S sets out could be a start to other things if the demand was actually real and not perceived.
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
The new Burnley - Colne - Skipton service is going to be called 'Pendle Wizz'. I'm assuming because it will 'wizz' past Pendle and bypass the town that has all the bus links TO Pendle, and not because of the class b drugs that share the same name... Oh dear. As brand names go this one is pretty poor!

Also worth noting that the 152 will no longer serve Altham Business Park outside of peak times. Always found it mildly irritating having to go round the business park on the late services when the business park is all but closed!

Have to say that these seem to be the most positively received changes to happen to the bus network in the area in a long time!

https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/915750/bus-service-changes-april-2020.pdf
 

Alexbus12

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2018
Messages
387
The new Burnley - Colne - Skipton service is going to be called 'Pendle Wizz'. I'm assuming because it will 'wizz' past Pendle and bypass the town that has all the bus links TO Pendle, and not because of the class b drugs that share the same name... Oh dear. As brand names go this one is pretty poor!

Tbf, it's not as bad as 'Trax'... I don't think I've ever heard any punters on the service call it by it's route name...

What vehicles are they going to use?
 

carlberry

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2014
Messages
3,169
The new Burnley - Colne - Skipton service is going to be called 'Pendle Wizz'. I'm assuming because it will 'wizz' past Pendle and bypass the town that has all the bus links TO Pendle, and not because of the class b drugs that share the same name... Oh dear. As brand names go this one is pretty poor!

Also worth noting that the 152 will no longer serve Altham Business Park outside of peak times. Always found it mildly irritating having to go round the business park on the late services when the business park is all but closed!

Have to say that these seem to be the most positively received changes to happen to the bus network in the area in a long time!

https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/915750/bus-service-changes-april-2020.pdf
It might be an age thing, or a southern thing, however I've always associated wizz with 'Going out for a wizz' which was just a reference to finding a toilet!
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
What vehicles are they going to use?

I think the route has a PVR of 4, going off a 60 minute journey each way at a 30 minute frequency. The ex MancZap/Red4s would more than likely be used... but knowing the sometimes odd ways Transdev do things there's a chance they'll revive the ex-280 B7RLEs that have been sat rotting away for the past four years...

MancZaps would be ideal though!
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
Considering the brand name format for a lot of the services is [thing]line, I think Pennine Line would have been a good one, considering the final destination of the service, and also a small nod to a previous and well respected former operator. Including Pendle seems to be an odd choice considering you can't actually get to Pendle (or really see it) from anywhere the service runs.
 

philthetube

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2016
Messages
3,762
The route is in tho borough of pendle from Brierfield to Thornton, past barnoldswick.
 

cnjb8

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
2,134
Location
Nottingham
Isn't that brewed by Moorhouse's these days?

Not quite a brand I'd have chosen, given what having a wazz means round West Yorkshire and East Lancs.
Everyone in the north knows what it means :lol:
I think Transdev need to rethink that.
 

Alexbus12

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2018
Messages
387
Rossos public inquiry was on the 3rd March, Alex Hornby hasn't put anything positive out on twitter like the last time they were called so I imagine it didn't go too well. Does anyone know the outcome of it? Ta
 

Stan Drews

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2013
Messages
1,579
Considering the brand name format for a lot of the services is [thing]line, I think Pennine Line would have been a good one, considering the final destination of the service, and also a small nod to a previous and well respected former operator. Including Pendle seems to be an odd choice considering you can't actually get to Pendle (or really see it) from anywhere the service runs.
I’m not sure where you think Pendle is, but this ‘new’ service will spend most of its time wizzing through it, and linking it to Burnley and North Yorkshire. The Mainline will continue to serve the parts it misses by wizzing down the M65.
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,675
Location
Yorkshire
Tbf, it's not as bad as 'Trax'... I don't think I've ever heard any punters on the service call it by it's route name...

Looks like they've solved this by not giving it a number - so you'll not have a choice of what to call it.
 

Bwsbro

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2013
Messages
391
According to Lancashire Council Bus changes. The new name for the X43 between Burnley and Skipton will be Pendle Wizz
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
I’m not sure where you think Pendle is, but this ‘new’ service will spend most of its time wizzing through it, and linking it to Burnley and North Yorkshire. The Mainline will continue to serve the parts it misses by wizzing down the M65.

I was referring to Pendle Hill. To be fair you're probably right, I just think it's a pretty poor name. Especially considering what else 'wizz' is also known for...
 

Alexbus12

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2018
Messages
387
Looks like they've solved this by not giving it a number - so you'll not have a choice of what to call it.

They have a number. 467&468. These are what the locals call it. Not the daft name "trax" that's plastered on the buses. The stickers inside are even more cringe- "let's make trax". :lol:
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
They have a number. 467&468. These are what the locals call it. Not the daft name "trax" that's plastered on the buses. The stickers inside are even more cringe- "let's make trax". :lol:

But it 'creates desire', apparently. It's also supposed to be a nod to the East Lancs Railway, although I must admit I didn't pick up on it until someone told me! Maybe that's just because I'm not from the area though.
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
These 'Transdev Art' advertising campaign images they're pumping out at the moment are brilliant. I don't know if they've been designed in house or if Stenning has been involved, but either way they're impressive.

ESHGfleWsAAPdoA.jpeg
 

NorthOxonian

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
5 Jul 2018
Messages
1,490
Location
Oxford/Newcastle
These 'Transdev Art' advertising campaign images they're pumping out at the moment are brilliant. I don't know if they've been designed in house or if Stenning has been involved, but either way they're impressive.

View attachment 75330

That looks very similar to the example of maps given on the Best Impressions site. I do rather like their network maps, though I'd appreciate more detail on town networks.
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
More news!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...18WrsNvpMMl43AOeXj-i3Md_jL-0L43tgo-QWyOlCplLc

Looks like the X41 has been saved (again??) as it's one of many services in and around Greater Manchester that have received a share of government funding. The 273 between Bolton, Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall is also being restored to an hourly service.

I wonder if these services will be put out to tender at some point, considering they're receiving funding for them?
 

Andyh82

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2014
Messages
3,548
More news!

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...18WrsNvpMMl43AOeXj-i3Md_jL-0L43tgo-QWyOlCplLc

Looks like the X41 has been saved (again??) as it's one of many services in and around Greater Manchester that have received a share of government funding. The 273 between Bolton, Ramsbottom and Rawtenstall is also being restored to an hourly service.

I wonder if these services will be put out to tender at some point, considering they're receiving funding for them?
That MAY receive a share of funding, Not has.
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
PR blurb from Transdev regarding the Pendle Speed Wizz states that it'll 'run using high quality leather seated double decker buses with free wifi and USB power at each seat'. I'm guessing it'll be the 05 ex-WW's, as they're the only ones with leather and USB charging. I am surprised it isn't the MancZaps though. Wonder where they'll end up now...
 

Bungle965

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
2 Jul 2014
Messages
2,852
Location
Blackley and Broughton/ Walsall South
PR blurb from Transdev regarding the Pendle Speed Wizz states that it'll 'run using high quality leather seated double decker buses with free wifi and USB power at each seat'. I'm guessing it'll be the 05 ex-WW's, as they're the only ones with leather and USB charging. I am surprised it isn't the MancZaps though. Wonder where they'll end up now...
Can anyone advise on whether or not the loadings on them justify double deckers?
Sam
 

RustySpoons

Member
Joined
5 Apr 2019
Messages
773
Can anyone advise on whether or not the loadings on them justify double deckers?
Sam

Nothing official, just going off what I've seen but I don't think they're regularly heavy loaded. Rush hour journeys could justify deckers though, but I suppose the same could be said for most services.
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
12,675
Location
Yorkshire
They have a number. 467&468. These are what the locals call it. Not the daft name "trax" that's plastered on the buses. The stickers inside are even more cringe- "let's make trax". :lol:

The Pennine Wizz doesn't. Which is what we were talking about.
 

Top