TOC plans regarding advance tickets if destinations become no-go (Coronavirus)?

[Howardh]

Been looking for a thread on this site but can't find one (apologies if there is!!); basically as a passenger with advanced tickets for specific trains, if a destination has government advice not to enter; will rail companies refund or accept the ticket for a later date?

Note - my two-night stayover in Brighton is covered by my insurance, but day-trip wouldn't be?

Can't actually recall anything like this before - maybe foot-and-mouth but that wouldn't affect the vast majority of stations.

Clearly TOC's must be thinking of this and planning?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Usually TOCs will give a full refund if the train on which you were booked is cancelled (regardless of what else runs). I can't imagine this situation would differ.

 

[Howardh]

Usually TOCs will give a full refund if the train on which you were booked is cancelled (regardless of what else runs). I can't imagine this situation would differ.

Not thinking specifically of being cancelled, as in Italy I think trains are running a full service (??) but there are clearly large areas which the trains (and planes) go through where the public has been "advised" (as in with threat of action) not to enter. Certain people can move using public transport - medics, press, police etc, so there will be pax on those trains.

I would imagine that would be the case here, a near-normal timetable but with virtually empty trains should the situation be severe enough to demand action like Italy?

If pax aren't guaranteed a refund from a running train, they are more likely to catch that train rather than lose their money, so it would make sense for TOC's to offer full refunds even if the train runs, to hopefully prevent the spread?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The situation in Italy is being rather misreported - commuting to work is still allowed in many cases, it isn't really quarantine.

I don't think we would be running a full service of empty trains, they would be cut back (the easy way to do that would be to switch the whole network to a semi-permanent Sunday timetable) or cancelled entirely.

 

[Howardh]

The situation in Italy is being rather misreported - commuting to work is still allowed in many cases, it isn't really quarantine.

I don't think we would be running a full service of empty trains, they would be cut back (the easy way to do that would be to switch the whole network to a semi-permanent Sunday timetable) or cancelled entirely.

If there's mass illness or self-quarantine amongst train staff, the reduced timetable will happen anyway by default!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there's mass illness or self-quarantine amongst train staff, the reduced timetable will happen anyway by default!!

True.

It's also about the best reason I've heard for guards to hide in the back cab I wonder if they might consider suspending on-board revenue protection and catering to minimise staff-passenger contact.

 

[Tom B]

Isn't there a getout for 'acts of dog' similar to industrial action? Or is this only on TfL services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't there a getout for 'acts of dog' similar to industrial action? Or is this only on TfL services.

"Acts of God" aren't a get-out not to refund for a service not being delivered at all. They can be in business-business contracts or contracts of insurance[1] but not business-consumer goods/services contracts, AIUI.

Of course if the event causes company failure (e.g. Flybe) then you get nowt unless e.g. your credit card company is liable (over £100 only). Unlikely a TOC would fail in that way though, it'd get renationalised with the Government taking on liabilities.

They are for compensation for poor service delivery (but not I think Delay Repay unless the Government makes specific provisions) but that's different.

[1] The main reason for this, I believe, is not because they wouldn't logically be insurable events, but because they would, if covered, cause a very large number of claims and potentially bankrupt the insurer.

 

[Tom B]

Ah yes - I suppose there are different rules between delay repay and refunds.

 

[westv]

Usually TOCs will give a full refund if the train on which you were booked is cancelled (regardless of what else runs). I can't imagine this situation would differ.

I thought you had to be delayed too if the train you were booked on was cancelled. So if you get an alternative service and you arrive less than 29 minutes late there is no refund.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought you had to be delayed too if the train you were booked on was cancelled. So if you get an alternative service and you arrive less than 29 minutes late there is no refund.

You're thinking about Delay Repay. You are allowed to get a refund and not travel if your booked train is cancelled per NRCoT 30:

30.1. If the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed, or your reservation will not be honoured, and you decide not to travel, you may return the unused Ticket to the original retailer or Train Company from whom it was purchased, where you will be given a full refund with no administration fee being charged.This Condition applies to all Tickets, including Tickets (such as Advance Tickets) that are otherwise non-refundable, and also applies if you have begun your journey but are unable to complete it due to delay or cancellations and return to your point of origin.

There is no specification of how long a delay must be, therefore one minute is quite adequate. (or perhaps 5 or 10 given that these are the definition of delayed for stats purposes?)

 

[infobleep]

I was attending an event in Manchester at the end of April. All tickets booked through TrainSplit site as advances. I take it not much chance of getting the money back.

It was for work so if not I may travel anyway and have a couple of days extra holiday up that way.

Edit Actually I see it is possible to rebook the tickets for a different date. Alas the date is 6 October and no advanced tickets avilable for sale then. I can't even book a flexible ticket on their site so far ahead. I'll start a separate thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was attending an event in Manchester at the end of April. All tickets booked through TrainSplit site as advances. I take it not much chance of getting the money back.

No, sadly. Though if the Government wishes to discourage travel without banning it outright, making a temporary change to this (i.e. allowing refunds of Advances sold for April and May, say) may be the thing to do. I don't think, for instance, Flybe ticket acceptance was the railway being nice, I think they were told to do it.

 

[PG]

No, sadly. Though if the Government wishes to discourage travel without banning it outright, making a temporary change to this (i.e. allowing refunds of Advances sold for April and May, say) may be the thing to do. I don't think, for instance, Flybe ticket acceptance was the railway being nice, I think they were told to do it.

Perhaps I missed it but if that was the case I'd have expected the government would not have missed the opportunity for a bit of fanfare in telling us how they'd arranged for the railway to take Flybe passengers.

 

[cuccir]

If your journey is to somewhere you know that you'll eventually travel to, even if there are limitations through March-May, I'd recommend booking via CrossCountry. You can ammend Advance fares and in principle keep doing this until eventually you get a date that you do travel.

 

[PG]

If your journey is to somewhere you know that you'll eventually travel to, even if there are limitations through March-May, I'd recommend booking via CrossCountry. You can ammend Advance fares and in principle keep doing this until eventually you get a date that you do travel.

Does this apply if you aren't travelling on a XC route?

 

[mmh]

Perhaps I missed it but if that was the case I'd have expected the government would not have missed the opportunity for a bit of fanfare in telling us how they'd arranged for the railway to take Flybe passengers.

@Bletchleyite is correct. There was a thread on the subject started last week: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tocs-asked-to-accept-flybe-passengers.201554/

 

[221129]

Does this apply if you aren't travelling on a XC route?

As long as its booked through XC yes.

 

[221129]

@Bletchleyite is correct. There was a thread on the subject started last week: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tocs-asked-to-accept-flybe-passengers.201554/

Not quite, the government asked but doesnt have the power to force that sort of thing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite, the government asked but doesnt have the power to force that sort of thing.

With a major review coming up, TOCs refusing to play ball with the Government are not going to find things fun or profitable moving forwards.

 

[Skymonster]

Hopefully the rail industry will now have the decency to offer no-penalty refunds for advance tickets bought by football fans who have no need to travel due to the postponement of fixtures across the UK.

 

[mmh]

With a major review coming up, TOCs refusing to play ball with the Government are not going to find things fun or profitable moving forwards.

Indeed. Ignoring the government isn't how big business works, let alone pseudo-private business reliant on the government for its existence.

 

[mmh]

Hopefully the rail industry will now have the decency to offer no-penalty refunds for advance tickets bought by football fans who have no need to travel due to the postponement of fixtures across the UK.

Many will also have hotel rooms booked. The impact of no football will be massive for many businesses in the leisure and tourism industry. There are hotels and pubs which only survive by football related trade.

Farcically, the Welsh Rugby Union waited til this afternoon to announce the cancellation of the Wales v Scotland game tomorrow, only 3 hours after announcing it was going ahead. Far too late to prevent unnecessary travel to Cardiff, which is now full of rugby fans with nothing to do tomorrow except go to packed pubs. Genius.

 

[Saperstein]

LNER have just announced they are removing their admin fee and offering refunds in the wake of the Coronavirus crisis.

We are helping customers to book with confidence by removing our admin fee and offering refunds for anyone wanting to change their travel plans with us after booking.


For more information visit: lner.co.uk/travel-informa…. #Covid_19

https://twitter.com/lner/status/1238530786304962560?s=21

Let’s hope other TOCs follow suit.

Edit: the link didn’t paste properly but is https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/coronavirus-travel-information/

 

[trainophile]

Many will also have hotel rooms booked. The impact of no football will be massive for many businesses in the leisure and tourism industry. There are hotels and pubs which only survive by football related trade.

Farcically, the Welsh Rugby Union waited til this afternoon to announce the cancellation of the Wales v Scotland game tomorrow, only 3 hours after announcing it was going ahead. Far too late to prevent unnecessary travel to Cardiff, which is now full of rugby fans with nothing to do tomorrow except go to packed pubs. Genius.

I was on a packed TfW train from Crewe with about 200 Scottish fans when the news broke this afternoon. They didn't seem to be too disappointed, despite having travelled all day. I expect Cardiff will be a bit rowdy tonight and tomorrow!

 

[jtuk]

Hopefully the rail industry will now have the decency to offer no-penalty refunds for advance tickets bought by football fans who have no need to travel due to the postponement of fixtures across the UK.

I'm just waiting to be half a grand out of pocket when they postpone the Euros

 

[alistairlees]

The announcement is on the RDG website

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/uk-rail-industry/about-my-journey/coronavirus.html

Discuss.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The announcement is on the RDG website

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/uk-rail-industry/about-my-journey/coronavirus.html

Discuss.

For those who don't like links the pertinent section is thus;

"Q: If I decide not to travel due to concerns about coronavirus, will I get a refund?

A: At the current time, there is no advice against travelling. Nevertheless, if your ticket is refundable, you will be able to claim a refund as normal. If you have a non-refundable ticket and choose not to travel, you should contact your travel insurer. "

In other words, sounds like the TOCs are passing the issue on and refusing to take responsibility.

 

[causton]

In other words, sounds like the TOCs are passing the issue on and refusing to take responsibility.

LNER has already issued advice more generous than what RDG is suggesting. I dare say more TOCs will follow suit.

 

[PG]

LNER has already issued advice more generous than what RDG is suggesting. I dare say more TOCs will follow suit.

My money would be on the other TOC run by the OLR ie Northern as being the next one to follow. After that not sure, depends which one is most in need of getting in the governments good books!