Rail services to be increased on May 18th

[111-111-1]

If we had a situation of queues (which I don’t think we will) then there would *have* to be priority for certain people. The impact of, say, a LNER driver travelling to work on GTR not being able to book-on at the correct time would be catastrophic.

Also if they end up waiting hours to get home having missed their booked ticket train because of running late themself and come in late the next day because of fatigue.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Unfortunately they are hoist by there own petard with the 2m rule so they have to respond to the impact of implementing this in terms of briefing to public otherwise they are undermining the overall message. I'm pretty sure any operator will have put them straight about the practicalities of implementing this and the nigh impossible task in enforcing it so it will be left to Joe Public to be sensible probably with face masks which pretty well all European operators have mandated.

 

[Class83]

Unfortunately they are hoist by there own petard with the 2m rule so they have to respond to the impact of implementing this in terms of briefing to public otherwise they are undermining the overall message. I'm pretty sure any operator will have put them straight about the practicalities of implementing this and the nigh impossible task in enforcing it so it will be left to Joe Public to be sensible probably with face masks which pretty well all European operators have mandated.

"Wear a mask where you can't maintain 2m separation, e.g. at work or on public transport" << Possible new slogan idea?

 

[30907]

Exactly, some friends of mine were absolutely horrified that the average death rate is about 1400 people per day normally. People have been lead to believe that even one single death is too many.

The problem is most people have no clue of the normal scale of death in society. In an average year 500,000 brits die, and that's around 1,360 per day. It does sound like a lot but the death rate from covid (ie people who would have lived perfectly fine and have no condition but have died simply through catching the virus) I imagine is shockingly low.

The latest ONS figures suggest the number of deaths in w/e 17 and 24 April was around twice the 5-year average, having increased rapidly over the previous two weeks. That difference is a reasonable proxy figure for the number of deaths triggered by Covid19.

 

[Silverlinky]

The LNR proposed timetable from 18th May is as follows....

Liverpool to Birmingham : 1 per hour, 8 coaches
Northampton to Birmingham : 2 per hour, most formed of 8 coaches (increase from 1 per hour now)
Northampton to Euston: 2 per hour, half formed of 8 coaches and the other half with 12 coaches stopping patterns to be determined but will not be all stations as at present. Additional peak time trains in the morning.
Milton Keynes/Tring to Euston, 1 per hour, most formed of 12 coaches (new service in addition to current two per hour from Northampton)
Crewe to Euston via Trent Valley, 1 per hour, formed of 8 coaches. (extended service as it is only currently running Crewe to Rugby)
Marston Vale Line Hourly replacement bus service
St Albans Abbey, 40 minute frequency replacement bus service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems sensible. Have they not got enough stock (or 12 car platforms[1]) to do the Northampton to Euston all as 12-car?

Bet their punctuality stats haven't seen what hit them

[1] Only half the platforms at Euston can take a 12 car.

 

[Silverlinky]

Seems sensible. Have they not got enough stock (or 12 car platforms[1]) to do the Northampton to Euston all as 12-car?

Bet their punctuality stats haven't seen what hit them

[1] Only half the platforms at Euston can take a 12 car.

Punctuality often high 90's% now!!

Euston, 16 platforms currently open, only 2 (9 & 10) can not take 12 cars.

The original plan was for one of the services from Northampton to run fast.....MKC and Watford only. Not much need for 12 cars there, so thats where the "half of them 8 car" comes in....the other one per hour would be the all stations 12 car. The MKC-Euston service would take the other stations off the other current Northampton-Euston 12 car all stations service.

 

[bramling]

Unfortunately they are hoist by there own petard with the 2m rule so they have to respond to the impact of implementing this in terms of briefing to public otherwise they are undermining the overall message. I'm pretty sure any operator will have put them straight about the practicalities of implementing this and the nigh impossible task in enforcing it so it will be left to Joe Public to be sensible probably with face masks which pretty well all European operators have mandated.

One presumes they’ve moved on from last months’s classic from Matt Hancock that there’s nothing stopping a full timetable resuming. Shapps does come across as having at least some idea of realities, but whatever happens I think we can confidently say the masses won’t be cycling from Cambridge to London or such.

 

[bramling]

Also if they end up waiting hours to get home having missed their booked ticket train because of running late themself and come in late the next day because of fatigue.

Absolutely. There’s a pack of cards waiting to come tumbling down.

 

[PG]

They may want it, but they’re unlikely to get it for as long as a proportion of staff are shielded. The remaining staff can’t be expected to keep running the show forever, the collective supply of fuel will run out. There’s a limit to how much rest day working and the like can be worked before people burn out. Ultimately that could prove dangerous.

Also if they end up waiting hours to get home having missed their booked ticket train because of running late themself and come in late the next day because of fatigue.

I've highlighted just two words in the posts above.

We really don't want staff working past their own limits, the result of which could easily lead to e.g. a PTI accident or SPAD or a person not being clear of the line etc.

 

[WatcherZero]

"Wear a mask where you can't maintain 2m separation, e.g. at work or on public transport" << Possible new slogan idea?

Masks have very low protective value. Last study of masks and Covid-19 I saw had wearing a mask meant you were 40% less likely to pass on the disease if you were infected but only reduced your chances of catching it yourself by 2%.

 

[Smidster]

Masks have very low protective value. Last study of masks and Covid-19 I saw had wearing a mask meant you were 40% less likely to pass on the disease if you were infected but only reduced your chances of catching it yourself by 2%.

.
We need to be careful when talking about what masks can and can't do.

Thr slogan is that "I wear a mask to protect you and you wear one to protect me" ...if you have the infection then the idea is that by wearing a mask you are less likely to spread it.

It feels like we need some realism and pragmatism in this...you can't say on one hand "back to work folks" and on the other "but only 6 people in a carriage". We are quickly losing all sense of proportion.

Support for cycling and walking is to be supported but for most commuters it really isn't viable and we are also in the sweet spot for cycling right now...few weeks time heat will put people off and then how many will really carry on when it gets cold and dark? I would love to cycle but 25 miles in the hills of Yorkshire is very different to 5 miles across London.

Our office can apparently work at about 40% capacity and I think people would go in a couple of days per week. At this rate I may do back to back and get a hotel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One presumes they’ve moved on from last months’s classic from Matt Hancock that there’s nothing stopping a full timetable resuming. Shapps does come across as having at least some idea of realities, but whatever happens I think we can confidently say the masses won’t be cycling from Cambridge to London or such.

I think that was a bit more about buses than trains to be honest, give or take the likes of Merseyrail.

 

[317 forever]

Shapps can spout what he likes, this certainly is not workable.

What's the difference between Boris Johnson and Grant Shapps?

Boris has Dominic Cummings pulling his strings, while Grant has Chris Whitty pulling his strings.

 

[317 forever]

Shapps knows 10% is not practical but hasn't got the balls to admit it. I await to see all the people who normally commute from Chorley or Bolton to Manchester taking to their bikes.

There's also the small matter of public transport being so heavily stigmatised that road traffic has increased quite a bit since March and declined much less since February than public transport use. This makes cycling more dangerous on the roads than had public transport not been so stigmatised.

 

[87015]

Seems sensible. Have they not got enough stock (or 12 car platforms[1]) to do the Northampton to Euston all as 12-car?

Bet their punctuality stats haven't seen what hit them

[1] Only half the platforms at Euston can take a 12 car.

Only platforms 9 and 10 at Euston cant take 12 cars.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only platforms 9 and 10 at Euston cant take 12 cars.

Cheers to both who replied pointing this out - I stand corrected, I thought it was all the "middle" platforms!

 

[LoogaBarooga]

I'm worried railway staff are going to end up getting shafted when this is all over. The government seem intent on discouraging the use of trains so they're not going to keep running trains at a fraction of their capacity indefinitely.

They've always wanted to whittle down staff numbers and this seems like a golden opportunity for them.

 

[Huntergreed]

I'm worried railway staff are going to end up getting shafted when this is all over. The government seem intent on discouraging the use of trains so they're not going to keep running trains at a fraction of their capacity indefinitely.

They've always wanted to whittle down staff numbers and this seems like a golden opportunity for them.

I don’t think the cycle to work message will overly affect capacity, once the masses are told they can go back to work, most will I imagine, and those who commuted by rail before into the major cities are likely to continue to do so.

 

[43094]

One operator of which I’m aware, is planning an increase in services from 18th May - of approximately 20% (in comparison to now).

They’re also looking at the feasibility of ‘reservation only’ as part of the solution.

 

[Mag_seven]

Reminder - this thread is for the discussion of the increase in rail services from 18th May.

thanks

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

This is Viennas approach here

Some soundbites

Mouth and nose protection in vehicles and subway stations is mandatory

We continuously monitor passenger numbers and adjust our measures

For example, employees from the security and control service as well as the service staff are constantly on the net as the “eyes of the company” so that we can quickly and reliably carry out readjustments on individual lines.

and this one will have Shapps & Khan in meltdown

The right behavior of passengers is just as important as the interval adjustments. There is space for up to 900 passengers in a subway train - but only if the entire vehicle is used.

The Wiener Linien announces this and asks the passengers to use all entrances

They've been running increased mobility since 14th April and there infection rate remains in decline albeit they of course never allowed it to run riot in the first place.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don’t think the cycle to work message will overly affect capacity, once the masses are told they can go back to work, most will I imagine, and those who commuted by rail before into the major cities are likely to continue to do so.

In Cardiff a bike is no substitute for a train for most journeys. No one is going to cycle 12 miles from Newport every day. Realistically it would be possible to cycle from the following to the City centre or Cardiff Bay.

Any station on the Radyr to Coryton City Line
Llandaf
Heath High Level
Grangetown
Dingle Road
Penarth
Cogan

Anywhere else is probably too far or too hilly. Pre virus most trains were absolutely packed long before any of these stations, apart from the Penarth branch which probably has enough capacity anyway.

 

[yorksrob]

This is Viennas approach here

Some soundbites




and this one will have Shapps & Khan in meltdown



They've been running increased mobility since 14th April and there infection rate remains in decline albeit they of course never allowed it to run riot in the first place.

900 people on a subway train. That sounds like a bit more than 10% capacity.

I wonder if they have markings on the floor to indicate where to stand.

 

[chris11256]

Similar in my case. I work in Stratford and there's no way I'm cycling 38 miles each way, for me the train is the only option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Cardiff a bike is no substitute for a train for most journeys. No one is going to cycle 12 miles from Newport every day.

Reply moved to the cycling thread:

E-scooters could be legalised and extra funding for cycling

Not sure if this is better in another forum or even an existing thread in this forum, but today’s Times reports that the legalisation of e-scooters may be rushed through as part of government plans to avoid traffic chaos as and when the economy gets going again but social distancing puts...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[WatcherZero]

RMT is asking members not to go in to work as it doesnt feel the conditions are right, its also saying that it had agreed to increasing services from 18th may but as the service increases are coming in earlier it doesnt feel bound by the agreement anymore.

 

[Bletchleyite]

RMT is asking members not to go in to work as it doesnt feel the conditions are right, its also saying that it had agreed to increasing services from 18th may but as the service increases are coming in earlier it doesnt feel bound by the agreement anymore.

An unofficial strike? Stupid move. The Government will crush them with full public support.

They should at least have had the sense to ballot and thus make it legal.

 

[High Dyke]

An unofficial strike? Stupid move. The Government will crush them with full public support.

They should at least have had the sense to ballot and thus make it legal.

No need to consider a strike. The railway industry already has procedures in place for staff to stop work and report something that is unsafe. The 'Worksafe' procedure is a documented process where the employee can challenge something which is unsafe (e.e. lack of social distancing on trains). The matter is assessed and a decision reached. If the employee still doesn't feel safe then the employers policies should take that into account, without detriment to the employee. Trade Unions are merely advising their staff to use the appropriate policies of their employer to ensure their health, safety and well-being at this time.

Then again, the Rail Industry Coronavirus Forum, an industry wide body, has already stated there is no intention to impose the May 2020 summer timetable on the 17th May.

 

[Bletchleyite]

RMT issues fresh COVID-19 advice to members

Thanks. It appears that the RMT have in fact not "advised members not to go into work" as is suggested above, but only that they should not work if they consider the situation unsafe. Quite different.