Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[mmh]

You'd "prefer the virus was still around". Wow, that's wierd. At least you are thinking of others.

Aha! I keep asking lockdown supporters by what measure at what level will they feel safe and allow social distancing, masks and the like to be dropped. Would you therefore say your measure is "no virus"? If so I applaud you for being the first person to be honest, but wonder if you realise that point may never occur.

 

[Bantamzen]

So let's give it one 4 week review period (they just changed it on the quiet from 3!) and see?

That doesn't exactly help the argument, if the government can quietly change the period without hardly anyone noticing, what else could they quietly change?

 

[mmh]

So let's give it one 4 week review period (they just changed it on the quiet from 3!) and see?

No, let's not meekly accept things, particularly those introduced on the quiet and without democratic scrutiny.

I refuse to accept that mask wearing has the importance its defenders claim. If it did, why are they not outraged that we're waiting a fortnight to impose it?

 

[Tetchytyke]

the idiotic 14 day quarantine rule if you come in by Air, Sea or Train, unless you come via Eire

That isn't idiotic, it's what stopped the virus here on the rock.

What is idiotic is doing it at the end of lockdown, not the start.

 

[Skymonster]

I presume this rule will apply to all railway staff too? It needs to - after all, they are likely to come into contact with more people than the typical passenger during the course of their work.

 

[nlogax]

Aha! I keep asking lockdown supporters by what measure at what level will they feel safe and allow social distancing, masks and the like to be dropped. Would you therefore say your measure is "no virus"? If so I applaud you for being the first person to be honest, but wonder if you realise that point may never occur.

My take is I'd be happier to drop face coverings, social distancing and other things when the R value drops along with a corresponding drop in daily deaths, down to a (consistent) third to a half of where we are now in early June. For reasons that are unclear the UK's cases and daily death counts aren't dropping as quickly as other countries, unless I'm misreading the statistics?

 

[Class 33]

I think having to wear face coverings on public transport will certainly put people off making long/long-ish journeys. Myself, on a hot day during the remainder of this summer I'm hoping to go down to Weymouth or Bournemouth on the train for a day out. But with the train journey to these places being between 2 hours to 2 hours 30 minutes each way, that would be uncomfortable to wear face masks and also not being able to eat or drink. So I'd give that a miss. A journey of up to about an hour wearing a face covering would probably be just about bearable.

 

[mmh]

This 'dystopian' thing I keep reading about here..it's tin foil hattery at its finest. There's nothing dystopian about wearing masks for a short period of time to help prevent the spread of a disease for which there is no known cure.

There are many diseases without a cure we don't feel the need to attempt to suppress by criminalising everyday behaviour. We didn't introduce laws regulating sex to prevent HIV spread. Why not?

 

[Bantamzen]

My take is I'd be happier to drop face coverings, social distancing and other things when the R value drops along with a corresponding drop in daily deaths, down to a (consistent) third to a half of where we are now in early June. For reasons that are unclear the UK's cases and daily death counts aren't dropping as quickly as other countries, unless I'm misreading the statistics?

Its probably worth remembering that the death rates are of people with covid, not necessarily dying because of it. Its unclear if more detailed statics actually exist, although I would be very surprised if they did not. However a much more detailed analysis is needed to understand exactly what is going on.

 

[Scrotnig]

Question for those of you who don't like masks; if mandatory use of face coverings was linked to the full return of leisure travel on trains (ie bye bye 'essential journeys only'), would you change your minds and wear them so you could do what you enjoy doing most?

It's a tiny price to pay if it's part of a route back to normality. I've zero qualms about wearing them.

Nope. I'm a huge fan of heritage railways, but I won't ever go near one again if doing so requires me to wear a muzzle.

 

[Vespa]

All very well if you can find a mask in the first place, the ones you can find are overpriced to what it was pre Covid by profiteering shysters.

 

[Scrotnig]

This 'dystopian' thing I keep reading about here..it's tin foil hattery at its finest. There's nothing dystopian about wearing masks for a short period of time to help prevent the spread of a disease for which there is no known cure.

And what is the 'short period of time'? There isn't one specified in this new ruling.

As others have pointed out, many of the hysterical security overreactions that were introduced at airports and elsewhere after 9/11, are still with us nearly 20 years later.

 

[Ostrich]

No. I have a car and would use that rather than have to wear masks.

Also no, I’m afraid. I’m a groundhopper (football anorak) and the thought of travelling a hour and half each way in a face covering to go see Woking FC or Newton Abbot Spurs isn’t my idea of a fun Saturday. So like Journeyman, it’ll be car journeys only to local clubs.

All academic anyway at present as football spectating isn’t coming back anytime soon.

 

[Mojo]

For reasons that are unclear the UK's cases and daily death counts aren't dropping as quickly as other countries, unless I'm misreading the statistics?

Spain, for one, has since last week, only been counting a death as having occurred if it happened on the day before writing the report. They have said they will provide a separate report once a week of all weekly deaths, but this clearly doesn’t allow for a direct comparison. Hence why the Newsnight graph the other night comparing UK to EU was meaningless.

 

[AM9]

Aha! I keep asking lockdown supporters by what measure at what level will they feel safe and allow social distancing, masks and the like to be dropped. Would you therefore say your measure is "no virus"? If so I applaud you for being the first person to be honest, but wonder if you realise that point may never occur.

A measure of zero is clearly ridiculous (and I don't think there are many who seriously think it is even possible even with an effective immunisation available because there is the antivac mentality out there), so no it isn't. I have never intimated that zero is achievable nor is it my 'measure' so your statement about being honest is bordering on insulting. Maybe you should indicate why you are holding such an erroneous view.

 

[Huntergreed]

This 'dystopian' thing I keep reading about here..it's tin foil hattery at its finest. There's nothing dystopian about wearing masks for a short period of time to help prevent the spread of a disease for which there is no known cure.

I can’t agree with that. Locking everyone indoors and making it a crime which is enforced by police if you exit your home for anything other than a list of government approved reasons is almost a dictionary definition example of a dystopian state.

This lockdown has given Britain its first (and I hope last) taste of living in a police state, where government restrictions severely restrict freedom and non-compliance is heavily shamed and punished.

Whilst wearing a mask on public transport may not seem dystopian, it’s the fact that not doing so can result in an immediate fine from police that is rather drastic. Admittedly this will mean higher compliance, and I do think it’s the right step to take for now, but it’s getting to a point where the government need to stop taking dystopian measures (restrictions on freedom or comfort, accompanied by fines and police punishment for non compliance), and started to move towards a more “common sense” based approach, once the infection rate is lower. It is my impression, however, that the government are planning on taking a route involving more enforcement than personal judgement than this however given the heavily fear driven messaging and the media and public shaming of those who do anything that could even be considered remotely a small risk of passing on the virus, as well as the fact that our first minister (Sturgeon) threatened earlier this week to impose a 5 mile radius of our home law and fine us if we’re caught outside it, which seems very, very over the top.

 

[LAX54]

That it does. It's a ridiculous rule, but I'll reply to you on the correct thread

yes, sorry, going off on a tangent there !

 

[ashkeba]

People who are symptomatic won't, or at least shouldn't be travelling in the first place. As for asymptomatic people, if they are not coughing and sneezing as they likely wouldn't be as they are asymptomatic, then the science is definitely inconclusive as to how infectious they really are. And then of course that assumes that they have the virus active in their systems, which many people won't.

A fifth of people will be sneezing grace to hay fever but could be asymptomatic spreaders of the virus. I'm sure there are other reasons people sneeze besides coronavirus and it's not realistic to quarantine such a large minority for as long.

 

[westv]

Probably already mentioned but will CCTV on public transport be redundant from the 15th?

 

[AM9]

There are many diseases without a cure we don't feel the need to attempt to suppress by criminalising everyday behaviour. We didn't introduce laws regulating sex to prevent HIV spread. Why not?

There's a slight difference between spreading a potentially lethal disease from sex with another person and catching a lethal disease by travelling in the same bus or train as another person. How would you have introduced a law in each case?

 

[mmh]

A measure of zero is clearly ridiculous (and I don't think there are many who seriously think it is even possible even with an effective immunisation available because there is the antivac mentality out there), so no it isn't. I have never intimated that zero is achievable nor is it my 'measure' so your statement about being honest is bordering on insulting. Maybe you should indicate why you are holding such an erroneous view.

My view is that zero may never happen, I'm not sure why that is erroneous. Neither am I sure how suggesting honesty is insulting. Not my intention, I'm sorry you feel that.

You haven't mentioned what your acceptable level of risk is though. It's not zero, OK. But what is it?

My concern is that if one is to support curtailing freedoms, one should also be expected to explain why and exactly how and when they will be restored.

 

[LAX54]

Its probably worth remembering that the death rates are of people with covid, not necessarily dying because of it. Its unclear if more detailed statics actually exist, although I would be very surprised if they did not. However a much more detailed analysis is needed to understand exactly what is going on.

Population UK 68 million, those with Covid 282,800, those that passed away, (with covid mentioned) 40,000

 

[AM9]

Probably already mentioned but will CCTV on public transport be redundant from the 15th?

Not at all. It will record how people behave, particularly when others ignore the rules. As far as identity goes, with cameras on stations they can be tracked as they alight and many town and city centre cameras have gait recognition which can lead to apprehension of offenders.

 

[ashkeba]

All very well if you can find a mask in the first place, the ones you can find are overpriced to what it was pre Covid by profiteering shysters.

Until yesterday, woven plastic face coverings were 75p in Spar and reusable cloth ones £3-5 in Decathlon. They may sell out now, of course, but if you can't find one, make one. There are lots of patterns online, including no-sew.

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit, I agree with Siddique Khan's point that if compulsory in public transport, face coverings should be made compulsory in other enclosed public settings.

I'm uneasy about public transport being made a special case in this respect, and I think that there will be more rigorous review of their benefit/disbenefit if applied to a larger range of settings.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I'm wondering what will become of TOC roles such as chefs, Retail Service Managers, First Class Hosts - as they are there to provide food & refreshments to passengers, won't their roles be obsolete while face covers are still mandatory on public transport?

CJ

 

[nlogax]

There are many diseases without a cure we don't feel the need to attempt to suppress. We didn't introduce laws regulating sex to prevent HIV spread. Why not?

I think you've just compared apples to tinned peaches.

 

[AM9]

My view is that zero may never happen, I'm not sure why that is erroneous. Neither am I sure how suggesting honesty is insulting. Not my intention, I'm sorry you feel that.

You haven't mentioned what your acceptable level of risk is though. It's not zero, OK. But what is it?

My concern is that if one is to support curtailing freedoms, one should also be expected to explain why and exactly how and when they will be restored.

My statement was in regard to your thinking that my measure was anything like zero, and nothing that I have posted could reasonably be read as such.

 

[Bantamzen]

A fifth of people will be sneezing grace to hay fever but could be asymptomatic spreaders of the virus. I'm sure there are other reasons people sneeze besides coronavirus and it's not realistic to quarantine such a large minority for as long.

There are various ways for hay fever sufferers to deal with this, from using treatments to simply carrying a issue. This method seems to have worked for decades, even centuries so I'm a little unclear as to why these don't t work any more?

 

[AM9]

I'm wondering what will become of TOC roles such as chefs, Retail Service Managers, First Class Hosts - as they are there to provide food & refreshments to passengers, won't their roles be obsolete while face covers are still mandatory on public transport?

CJ

I imagine that their roles won't be needed for the duration of face covering rules and possibly distancing measures.