Face coverings compulsory on public transport in England from 15 June

[Skymonster]

How selfish of you. Whether you like them or not, the rules are there. If you don't like them, then find another way to travel.

Nope, and nope. They are unnecessary and over-the-top theatre, as I have said elsewhere, designed only to give sheeple reassurance.

 

[island]

Making rules up by yourself again I see Bletchleyite. The rules say it must cover the nose and mouth. No mention that they must be fabric, no mention that motorcycle helmets are not appropriate. I really don't understand why you can't see it - the rules are so wide open to what you would describe as "loopholes" that they are merely pure theatre aimed at trying to convince the proletariat that the government is doing something, anything. If this was a serious problem, the rules would be much tighter. Most people are too ignorant to question what is being asked of them. Its just another in a long litany of "do what we say without question" edicts from the government (including the lockdown rules), which have been ignored by many with no detriment.

Quite. ”We must do something. This is something, therefore we must do it.”

 

[CaptainHaddock]

How selfish of you. Whether you like them or not, the rules are there. If you don't like them, then find another way to travel.


If they were tighter, no doubt you would be moaning about them and trying to find a way out of it.

No, he's not being selfish, he's thinking for himself instead of blindly doing as this incompetent government tells him to do. Perhaps you should try it sometime?

 

[alex397]

Nope, and nope. They are unnecessary and over-the-top theatre, as I have said elsewhere, designed only to give sheeple reassurance.

Whatever your thoughts about them, they are still the rules. Your attitude stinks.

There's plenty of rules I think are ridiculous, but I still stick by them. I think not being allowed in first class on a commuter train when the rest of the train is busy is ridiculous but I still follow the rules.

 

[Skymonster]

Whatever your thoughts about them, they are still the rules. Your attitude stinks.

There's plenty of rules I think are ridiculous, but I still stick by them. I think not being allowed in first class on a commuter train when the rest of the train is busy is ridiculous but I still follow the rules.

A famous quote you should acquaint yourself with: "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

 

[alex397]

No, he's not being selfish, he's thinking for himself instead of blindly doing as this incompetent government tells him to do. Perhaps you should try it sometime?

He is being selfish by not following the rules. He is just thinking about himself rather than others.

I am able to think for myself thank you. I'm also able to consider what is selfish behaviour and what is not.

 

[alex397]

A famous quote you should acquaint yourself with: "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

I'm intrigued to find out what other rules and laws you are happy to break.

Speed limits? Traffic regulations? Drug laws? Company policies at your workplace?

 

[Skymonster]

I'm intrigued to find out what other rules and laws you are happy to break.

Well for one, I will admit I have broken the speed limit while driving on more than one occasion. And I am also willing to admit I will likely do so again in the future.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - another famous saying. So go on then alex397, please confirm you have NEVER broken or ignored any rule in life.

For what its worth, I am not being selfish - I am merely applying a degree of thought to the situation, which is something the government is banking on most people not doing.

 

[alex397]

Well for one, I will admit I have broken the speed limit while driving on more than one occasion. And I am also willing to admit I will likely do so again in the future.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - another famous saying. So go on then alex397, please confirm you have NEVER broken or ignored any rule in life.

For what its worth, I am not being selfish - I am merely applying a degree of thought to the situation, which is something the government is banking on most people not doing.

I don't think there are many people who can say they've never broken a rule, or the law. I don't think I've broken any rules intentionally though, except when at school. And I don't have a "rules are meant to be broken" sort of attitude you appear to have.

 

[furlong]

Don't forget to read the rule in the context of the byelaw:

12. Safety instructions
(1) The Operator may issue to any person reasonable instructions relating to safety on any part of the railway by means of a notice on or near that part of the railway. No person shall, without reasonable cause, disobey such notice.

i.e. I presume it would be for them to show that their notice complied with each of those requirements e.g. how some specific wrong type of fastening relates to safety on the relevant part of the railway.. This notice might be pushing that byelaw towards its limits.

 

[mmh]

There's something not quite right about this government accusing anyone of destroying people's employment terms & conditions....

Which employment terms and conditions have they destroyed? Unless you mean destroying the job itself, then I'll agree you have a point.

 

[mmh]

Whatever your thoughts about them, they are still the rules. Your attitude stinks.

There's plenty of rules I think are ridiculous, but I still stick by them. I think not being allowed in first class on a commuter train when the rest of the train is busy is ridiculous but I still follow the rules.

It doesn't take much of an imagination to extrapolate from that thinking and reach a conclusion which Godwin (he of the Internet Law) would be proud.

 

[Journeyman]

A lot of the issues raised in the last few posts illustrate perfectly why this rule is so utterly stupid. Everyone magically considers themselves an authority on it, and everyone who disagrees with them is evil and selfish.

 

[alex397]

A lot of the issues raised in the last few posts illustrate perfectly why this rule is so utterly stupid. Everyone magically considers themselves an authority on it, and everyone who disagrees with them is evil and selfish.

You're generalising. Not ‘everyone‘ considers themselves an authority. I don’t - but Id rather listen to experts who suggest that masks could help (emphasis on could). I understand people being sceptical about wearing the masks - that’s not selfish. What is selfish is actually purposely breaking the rules just because you don’t agree with it.

There is scientific evidence suggesting that face masks can help reduce the spread. But the evidence is thin, and scientists are divided. However, until there is clearer evidence either way about how useful that face masks are, surely we should just go with it until we know more. Most people want to return to normal, and if masks help with that, then I’m all for it.

 

[BJames]

You're generalising. Not ‘everyone‘ considers themselves an authority. I don’t - but Id rather listen to experts who suggest that masks could help (emphasis on could). I understand people being sceptical about wearing the masks - that’s not selfish. What is selfish is actually purposely breaking the rules just because you don’t agree with it.

There is scientific evidence suggesting that face masks can help reduce the spread. But the evidence is thin, and scientists are divided. However, until there is clearer evidence either way about how useful that face masks are, surely we should just go with it until we know more. Most people want to return to normal, and if masks help with that, then I’m all for it.

Yes but the point is that you can actually take journeys on the railway or public transport if you don't have a car, and the journey you're taking is something that's allowed in the law. You're allowed to travel anywhere in England for exercise, and you need to avoid public transport where possible, but if you don't have a car or bike then it's not possible and you're allowed to use it. That's not selfish.

 

[alex397]

Yes but the point is that you can actually take journeys on the railway or public transport if you don't have a car, and the journey you're taking is something that's allowed in the law. You're allowed to travel anywhere in England for exercise, and you need to avoid public transport where possible, but if you don't have a car or bike then it's not possible and you're allowed to use it. That's not selfish.

I don’t disagree with that at all. I’m talking about the use of face masks.

 

[Skymonster]

Id rather listen to experts

An ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure... Enough said...

 

[alex397]

An ex is a has-been, and a spurt is a drip under pressure... Enough said...

Oh, you’re one of those people who has had enough of experts I presume. That makes sense.

 

[Skymonster]

I don't think there are many people who can say they've never broken a rule, or the law. I don't think I've broken any rules intentionally though, except when at school. And I don't have a "rules are meant to be broken" sort of attitude you appear to have.

Answer well dodged - have you ever actually broken any rule? I am not advocating "rules are meant to be broken" but I am certainly suggesting everyone has a right to individual opinion and that every rule is not automatically correct. It matters not anyway, because it has become clear that plenty of people are prepared to ignore official guidance - witness all the protest gatherings over the last week or so and the longer-term lack of compliance with social gathering. On that basis alone, it would be wise for the government to allow for a certain percentage of the population to ignore what it is asking rather than rely on total obedience. It is this gap that is indeed being exploited by the government that is relying on a proportion of the population to be obedient without question. This is not what this nation is about.

 

[Skymonster]

Oh, you’re one of those people who has had enough of experts I presume. That makes sense.

The experts on which the government has relied have demonstrably lacked credibility when subject to proper analysis of what they have said. Sure, you go ahead and rely on whatever guidance is given without question if you wish, but that is not a way of making progress in situations such as this.

 

[Ianno87]

The experts on which the government has relied have demonstrably lacked credibility when subject to proper analysis of what they have said. Sure, you go ahead and rely on whatever guidance is given without question if you wish, but that is not a way of making progress in situations such as this.

Do you not wear a seatbelt in the car, because 99% of the time, they have no contribution to your safety? (But the 1% of the time, they are of course lifesavers)

 

[alex397]

Answer well dodged - have you ever actually broken any rule? I am not advocating "rules are meant to be broken" but I am certainly suggesting everyone has a right to individual opinion and that every rule is not automatically correct. It matters not anyway, because it has become clear that plenty of people are prepared to ignore official guidance - witness all the protest gatherings over the last week or so and the longer-term lack of compliance with social gathering. On that basis alone, it would be wise for the government to allow for a certain percentage of the population to ignore what it is asking rather than rely on total obedience. It is this gap that is indeed being exploited by the government that is relying on a proportion of the population to be obedient without question. This is not what this nation is about.

I didn’t dodge the answer. I thought that was pretty clear - yes, there is no doubt I have broken rules in my lifetime like the majority of people, but I certainly try not to. The issue with face masks seems quite a serious rule to break.

so, because there has been various rule breaking from protest groups and others, that means it’s ok for everyone else to just ignore the rules?

The experts on which the government has relied have demonstrably lacked credibility when subject to proper analysis of what they have said. Sure, you go ahead and rely on whatever guidance is given without question if you wish, but that is not a way of making progress in situations such as this.

It’s not just experts picked by our government I’m talking about, but elsewhere too. I’m sceptical of a lot of what our government does, particularly our current one.

I’m sceptical about this government ruling about face masks too. It was brought in too late, and appears to have just been done to show they are doing something. But I still think it can be effective, even if it has just a mild impact.

 

[mmh]

Answer well dodged - have you ever actually broken any rule? I am not advocating "rules are meant to be broken" but I am certainly suggesting everyone has a right to individual opinion and that every rule is not automatically correct.

Everybody has broken rules and government guidance. Every single one of us. Because we give an importance and usefulness ranking to everything we are ever told, whether we realise it or not.

 

[WM Bus]

Same in Birmingham yesterday, about 50% of passengers were wearing masks (including me) but there was no attempt by any of the drivers to enforce the rule, I guess because there is not much a driver can do if someone point blank refuses to wear a mask.

On a lot of buses it seems to be more than 50% wearing them. Probably more 70% from what i've seen.
That is true, not much that they can do I think and they can't demand someone who has a medical condition to wear one.
I believe its just being recorded on the machines how many aren't wearing them.

 

[adc82140]

Do you not wear a seatbelt in the car, because 99% of the time, they have no contribution to your safety? (But the 1% of the time, they are of course lifesavers)

I think seat belts should be banned, and the airbag replaced by a giant spike coming from the steering wheel. I guarantee everyone would drive extremely carefully.

 

[westv]

I think seat belts should be banned, and the airbag replaced by a giant spike coming from the steering wheel. I guarantee everyone would drive extremely carefully.

Wouldn't it get in the way?

 

[adc82140]

Wouldn't it get in the way?

Nah. It'd deploy like an airbag.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Hopefully as people start to notice many of their fellow passengers aren't wearing masks and aren't being challenged, they'll see no good reason to wear a mask themselves, meaning mask wearing on trains will decline and this silly and pointless law will soon fall by the wayside.

 

[GoneSouth]

It's not up to First Bristol to enforce the rule. Theoretically it's up to the police, but they are never going to have the resources free to do that. It's going to have to be self policing, and yes, common sense will have to come in to it.

Well they should find some resources, it could be a nice little earner. Think more traffic wardens = more parking fines, therefor more policing of buses = more face fines. It’s self financing and might go a small way to pay back the furlough debt

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Noticed a lot online saying you must wear face coverings in stations as well as on trains. Aside from TfL, have any of them actually changed their byelaws or are they making stuff up again?