How to get people back on trains post COVID-19?

[RomeoCharlie71]

Just been watching the ITV News. And on it, it mentioned "The ban on non-essential travel will be lifted on 4th July.". Excellent. Now that means that come next Saturday, train operators like Northern Rail and ScotRail will have to finally stop it with their "Essential journeys only" and "Key workers only" rubbish. Let's see if that actually happens though.....

Not necessarily ScotRail as Scotland is following different guidelines/regulations at the moment.

 

[Huntergreed]

Just been watching the ITV News. And on it, it mentioned "The ban on non-essential travel will be lifted on 4th July.". Excellent. Now that means that come next Saturday, train operators like Northern Rail and ScotRail will have to finally stop it with their "ESSENTIAL JOURNEYS ONLY", "KEY WORKERS ONLY" and "Please don't use our trains to go shopping or for day trips." rubbish. Let's see if that actually happens though.....

Did they have a source for this announcement?

Non essential travel was never banned. Some TOC’s just decided to pretend it was to try and make things easier for themselves.

 

[greyman42]

That isn’t quite guaranteed, as if the member of staff intimates that a passenger has been abusive then they certainly won’t be travelling. That has certainly been used at my place as a way of getting rid of troublesome people.

How is ignoring a member of staff and boarding a train with a valid ticket, troublesome?

 

[DB]

How is ignoring a member of staff and boarding a train with a valid ticket, troublesome?

Indeed - and how many stations actually have BTP anywhere nearby to deal with this sort of thing anyway? In most cases, it's only the big ones. The whole 'see it say it sorted' nonsense has given many the impression that there are BTP staff waiting around every corner to deal with problems, when in fact there are mostly only a handful of them covering a wide area.

 

[al78]

I'm goiog to Pyecombe for a walk tomorrow and was thinking of getting the train from Horsham to Hassocks, or cycling there and getting the train back. I have (surprisingly) managed to get some face masks. If I turn up to Horsham station tomorrow, am I likely to get questioned as to the necessity of my journey and persuaded not to travel? The national rail website is still putting up the message about not travelling by train if you don't have too.

 

[Huntergreed]

I'm goiog to Pyecombe for a walk tomorrow and was thinking of getting the train from Horsham to Hassocks, or cycling there and getting the train back. I have (surprisingly) managed to get some face masks. If I turn up to Horsham station tomorrow, am I likely to get questioned as to the necessity of my journey and persuaded not to travel? The national rail website is still putting up the message about not travelling by train if you don't have too.

No, you are almost guaranteed not to get questioned, and if you do you can chase this up as the legislation permits journeys for any purpose provided you have considered other forms of transport.

 

[YorksDMU]

Just been watching the ITV News. And on it, it mentioned "The ban on non-essential travel will be lifted on 4th July.". Excellent. Now that means that come next Saturday, train operators like Northern Rail and ScotRail will have to finally stop it with their "ESSENTIAL JOURNEYS ONLY", "KEY WORKERS ONLY" and "Please don't use our trains to go shopping or for day trips." rubbish. Let's see if that actually happens though.....

Thank you for posting about the information that the atrocious messaging being maybe removed from next Saturday, 4th July. I’ll only believe it if it happens though. I have been travelling by rail though, and not once have I been prevented from using the trains to go shopping for something which is not available in Beverley. So if it isn’t stopped, I will continue to use the train regardless. I know my rights thanks to this lovely site.

An edit to add that if more people are to travel by rail, distancing on the trains will have to be reduced to no more than one metre plus extra trains introduced rather than on services from Hull being, largely, one train every two hours which is a totally inadequate service.

 

[al78]

No, you are almost guaranteed not to get questioned, and if you do you can chase this up as the legislation permits journeys for any purpose provided you have considered other forms of transport.

Thanks. I have considered driving and cycling both ways. I'd rather not drive if public transport is viable (it feels like a waste of resources for me alone to drive a relatively short journey), and I'm not sure how tired I'll be after a 20 mile bike ride and a seven mile hilly walk, so would like the option of getting the train back from Hassocks if cycling 20 miles home feels like too much (I have done this before).

 

[greyman42]

Thank you for posting about the information that the atrocious messaging being maybe removed from next Saturday, 4th July. I’ll only believe it if it happens though. I have been travelling by rail though, and not once have I been prevented from using the trains to go shopping for something which is not available in Beverley. So if it isn’t stopped, I will continue to use the train regardless. I know my rights thanks to this lovely site.

An edit to add that if more people are to travel by rail, distancing on the trains will have to be reduced to no more than one metre plus extra trains introduced rather than on services from Hull being, largely, one train every two hours which is a totally inadequate service.

I have been travelling throughout June including long distance journeys for leisure and have never been questioned by anyone.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Did they have a source for this announcement?

Non essential travel was never banned. Some TOC’s just decided to pretend it was to try and make things easier for themselves.

I look forward to Northern removing their ridiculous "out of use" signs from 75 per cent of the seats on their trains.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I look forward to Northern removing their ridiculous "out of use" signs from 75 per cent of the seats on their trains.

Only on 50 per cent of the seats from the 4th of July

 

[AdamWW]

Did they have a source for this announcement?

Non essential travel was never banned. Some TOC’s just decided to pretend it was to try and make things easier for themselves.

Rather like the announcement that people should start travelling to work for non-essential jobs if they couldn't do it from home...when in fact the goverment guidance from the start had been to do so.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Getting rid of the ridiculous requirement to wear masks would be a very good start!

Same here. If wearing masks outside and on public transport is still happening by late August / early September then I won't be travelling on trains with seat reservations til there's an end to social distancing and requirements to wear masks outside and on public transport.

If I'm going to make a leisure trip then it's to and from Didcot Parkway and Reading each way on a Class 387 - just like with a bus, find a seat and stay there !

Until then, I won't be using any public transport.

 

[Jonny]

To answer OP's question, perhaps getting rid of the whole masks charade on the basis that it poses a net risk to the wearer.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I'm sure it is feasible to walk or cycle to non-essential shops within 5 miles of your home if you are that desperate to go to them. You've only got until July 3rd until that nonsense is lifted though.

And is also worth noting ScotRail are still only operating 60% service next week.

Little if anything is changing south of the border next week either. July 5th sees the next increase in timetables and frequencies.

Unless you count tomorrow onwards as "this week" rather than "next week!" I usually go Monday to Sunday as one whole week.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

LNER seem to "get it" and seem to be preparing people for a change... they tweeted this a short while ago.

We can’t wait to have you all back on-board. We miss you.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Well as I started this thread I suppose I ought to come up with a few ideas myself!

Firstly, I agree that the current restrictions on train, especially face masks and social distancing need to go as soon as possible.

At this point it would be great if TOCs would use this opportunity to review just how (un)welcoming the on train (and on station) environment has become to the average potential traveller. For years we’ve been subjected to a barrage of signs and announcements detailing all the things we can’t do, lots of potential threats to our safety and even more pointless patronising messages telling us what we already know. I would propose scrapping all this and reserve posters and announcements for relevant information – i.e. where the train is going to, where it’s stopping and what facilities are available on board. No “see it say it sort it”, no warnings about unattended luggage or platform gaps, get rid of it all!

In terms of getting passengers back on board, I would like to see TOCs introduce a number of short term special offers, especially those that have invested in new trains. Transpennine Express are a good example of this; prior to the lockdown they had a £1 offer so passengers could try out their new Nova trains. I booked a number of these but never got to use any of them; it would be nice if the offer could be reintroduced now the lockdown is as good as over. Long distance operators such as EMR and XC certainly need to rebuild their leisure market and think about how to attract people back. Perhaps promoting rover tickets, which few outside the enthusiast fraternity seem to know about, would be a good start?

The commuter market is a trickier one; some may even say that if home working takes off long term, it may be gone for good or at least substantially reduced. Although this may be good news for us commuters who are still traveling as we’re now more likely to get a seat, the loss of revenue may mean it’s no longer cost effective to run quite such an intensive service. One thing however I would like to see is a “part time” season ticket for people who only need to come into work 2 or 3 days a week. Priced at around 2/3 of the full season ticket price I reckon this could well take off.

Finally the whole concept of first class travel needs an overhaul. The days of charging hundreds of pounds for a first class return to London may be gone for good but post-Covid a lot of people will want the extra space and more relaxing environment, so maybe making first class more accessible to the leisure traveller would be a good idea? For example you could extend the “weekend first” option to all off peak trains throughout the week and make the supplement a lot smaller – i.e. a fiver each way?

Whatever happens it’s unlikely the pre-lockdown passenger levels will return for a long while, so clearly the TOCs marketing departments are going to have to be a lot more imaginative!

 

[westv]

Talking of 1st class, I wonder when LNER will start to reinstate the on board catering.

 

[LowLevel]

People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.

www.gov.uk

Guidance has been updated today for starting 4th July - reduction to 1m distancing with mitigations with 2m as an ideal across the board for public transport and the only rider on journeys being that you should consider all other options before using public transport.

 

[AdamWW]

People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19

Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.

www.gov.uk

Guidance has been updated today for starting 4th July - reduction to 1m distancing with mitigations with 2m as an ideal across the board for public transport and the only rider on journeys being that you should consider all other options before using public transport.

Given seat pitch is (I think) usually less than 1 m, does moving from 2 to 1 m make much difference capacity-wise?

Or does Pythagoras let you use all rows if you alternate between window and aisle seats?

I believe National Express are planning on using window seats in all rows on their (road) coaches except behind the driver rather than sticking to the 1 m rule.

My personal view is still that if you're circulating the same air round a vehicle then spacing probably isn't the most important thing. National Express say they have added UV filters to the air conditioning systems in their coaches. I haven't heard of rail companies doing the same.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Well as I started this thread I suppose I ought to come up with a few ideas myself!

Firstly, I agree that the current restrictions on train, especially face masks and social distancing need to go as soon as possible.

At this point it would be great if TOCs would use this opportunity to review just how (un)welcoming the on train (and on station) environment has become to the average potential traveller. For years we’ve been subjected to a barrage of signs and announcements detailing all the things we can’t do, lots of potential threats to our safety and even more pointless patronising messages telling us what we already know. I would propose scrapping all this and reserve posters and announcements for relevant information – i.e. where the train is going to, where it’s stopping and what facilities are available on board. No “see it say it sort it”, no warnings about unattended luggage or platform gaps, get rid of it all!

In terms of getting passengers back on board, I would like to see TOCs introduce a number of short term special offers, especially those that have invested in new trains. Transpennine Express are a good example of this; prior to the lockdown they had a £1 offer so passengers could try out their new Nova trains. I booked a number of these but never got to use any of them; it would be nice if the offer could be reintroduced now the lockdown is as good as over. Long distance operators such as EMR and XC certainly need to rebuild their leisure market and think about how to attract people back. Perhaps promoting rover tickets, which few outside the enthusiast fraternity seem to know about, would be a good start?

The commuter market is a trickier one; some may even say that if home working takes off long term, it may be gone for good or at least substantially reduced. Although this may be good news for us commuters who are still traveling as we’re now more likely to get a seat, the loss of revenue may mean it’s no longer cost effective to run quite such an intensive service. One thing however I would like to see is a “part time” season ticket for people who only need to come into work 2 or 3 days a week. Priced at around 2/3 of the full season ticket price I reckon this could well take off.

Finally the whole concept of first class travel needs an overhaul. The days of charging hundreds of pounds for a first class return to London may be gone for good but post-Covid a lot of people will want the extra space and more relaxing environment, so maybe making first class more accessible to the leisure traveller would be a good idea? For example you could extend the “weekend first” option to all off peak trains throughout the week and make the supplement a lot smaller – i.e. a fiver each way?

Whatever happens it’s unlikely the pre-lockdown passenger levels will return for a long while, so clearly the TOCs marketing departments are going to have to be a lot more imaginative!

A fiver for First is good if catering is limited or non-existent. Maybe a tenner if over a 2hrs trip.

 

[Luke McDonnell]

Hello again, on the subject of this thread when do you think I should start seeing my friend again who I regularly travel by train to see on a regular basis (once a week or every 2 weeks normally)?
I’m just asking this because like me he has Asperger's but he is more nervous and anxious of going out into the world again than I am as he like me can get anxious about reading sensational headlines about the virus and the risks that it poses.

I am 39 years old and he is in his late 40s which I would still class as a pretty low risk group. Just asking this as most social and economic restrictions are due to be lifted at the weekend so in principle I should be able to see him without any difficulties and go and visit him, but would I be OK travelling by train after that date - I travel LSP-Chester either by TfW or Merseyrail which would be the best route to take and I would be more comfortable travelling by train before he does but I will go to his first because of his anxieties he will probably get anxious about me picking it up on the train and giving it to him.

Could anyone give me an idea of the current risk to reassure him?
I would think it is rather low at the moment with trains being still rather empty and mask wearing in place to mitigate that too.

I have a disabled pass BTW so I can use that on Merseyrail but not TfW so which would be the best route to take I would give me a sense of things returning to normality.

My Mum who I live with has been nervous about me returning to rail travel because she again worries about me picking it up and giving it to her she is in her 60s so more at risk so just asking if anyone could give me an idea of how risky train travel is currently, but IMO I would think it would be rather low with masks and social distancing on services as well as declining community infections?

Luke

 

[Butts]

Talking of 1st class, I wonder when LNER will start to reinstate the on board catering.

Bring back The free Whisky immediately

 

[philosopher]

The commuter market is a trickier one; some may even say that if home working takes off long term, it may be gone for good or at least substantially reduced. Although this may be good news for us commuters who are still traveling as we’re now more likely to get a seat, the loss of revenue may mean it’s no longer cost effective to run quite such an intensive service. One thing however I would like to see is a “part time” season ticket for people who only need to come into work 2 or 3 days a week. Priced at around 2/3 of the full season ticket price I reckon this could well take off.

With regards to commuting, providing train operators maintain the pre 2019 service levels, then the reduced level of overcrowding and greater chance of a seat could in itself be used as an incentive to get commuters back on trains. For example, the train operating companies could advertise to commuters that you can now get a seat and work on the train.

 

[AdamWW]

With regards to commuting, providing train operators maintain the pre 2019 service levels, then the reduced level of overcrowding and greater chance of a seat could in itself be used as an incentive to get commuters back on trains. For example, the train operating companies could advertise to commuters that you can now get a seat and work on the train.

In the longer term, not having to lease and maintain rolling stock that is just used in the peaks might be more cost-effective than at present.

(An extreme example being the Rhymney 37's, fun as they were)

 

[squizzler]

The way I see it the train industry is in the same position now as the motoring community was in the early 1950's. Back then, petrol was still rationed, I think, but there were grand plans afoot to build all those motorways. Whatever cognitive dissonance that caused does not seem to have prevented a boom in motoring when petrol stopped being rationed and cars were available to buy.

Like the case with petrol rationing, the rail industry is suppressing the supply, but with so many network improvements, and HS2, still to come. The programme to reconnect towns that lost their rail services in the 1960's is still very visible in the press. All in all, I don't think the public mindshare for trains has ever been higher, even if nobody is sure if they should ride them.

The motor trade by contrast is where the railways were at that time. Rather like the railways being stuck with dirty steam engines, the car industry is stuck with obsolescent internal combustion in a world that is going electric. Motoring is so entrenched now, it is perhaps even more poorly equipped that the rail companies back in the day (which never 'owned' the transport market to the same extent) to see what its main roles will be as 'mobility as a service' and automatic taxis begin to eat into the traditional ownership pattern of 'one adult = one car'.

I like to think that the current period will be seen as a period of fasting that makes the following feast even more satisfying.

 

[Jonny]

Talking of 1st class, I wonder when LNER will start to reinstate the on board catering.

Bring back The free Whisky immediately

The sooner the better, I say.

 

[jtuk]

To answer OP's question, perhaps getting rid of the whole masks charade on the basis that it poses a net risk to the wearer.

This, I'm not going anywhere while this whole preventing the spread theatre is still going on

 

[Skymonster]

Ministers to tone down warnings over use of trains and buses in boost for public transport

Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are r

www.thetimes.co.uk

Ministers to tone down warnings over use of trains and buses in boost for public transport
Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.

Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are running empty.

The Times has learnt that the government will monitor use of public transport over the weekend and early next week before possibly abandoning the approach it has maintained since March. Over the past three months commuters have been told to use other forms of transport with buses and trains only used for essential journeys.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Ministers to tone down warnings over use of trains and buses in boost for public transport

Public transport is likely to be opened up to thousands more passengers under government plans to drop official advice warning them to stay away.Ministers are preparing to tone down warnings over the use of trains and buses amid criticism from operators and backbench MPs that too many services are r

www.thetimes.co.uk

About time! I hope they also fine the likes of Northern and EMR for their excessive and dishonest scaremongering.