How to get people back on trains post COVID-19?

[cactustwirly]

As I understand the new guidance, nothing will actually change. It will still be essential journeys only until the need to distance is no longer needed. It’s not looking good for train travel. I hope I’m wrong, and would love to be proven wrong.

It has changed, ToCs have dropped the essential travel message, they just say to wear a facemask and consider alternative modes before taking the train.

 

[dan5324]

I'm all for it, if it's aimed more at car drivers. I am not convinced that many train journeys can be replaced by walking, but many car journeys could.

It's funny how some people seem very keen to remind others that they should only use public transport if there is no other option, yet 'conveniently' forget that car drivers are encouraged to walk or cycle more.

I really don't think rail travel should be discouraged at the current time, but the thread is supposed to be about how to encourage people to use the train post-Covid19.

That said, arguably a good way to prepare to encourage people in the future, is to stop discouraging them quite so much now!

Grant schnapps basically said if you have a car then use it. I remember being shocked. Probably the first time ever we have been told to use our cars as the defacto transport option. The cycle encouragement only came later on when they realised the public don’t need to be told twice to use their cars.
Getting people cycling on the other hand is much more a challenge.

 

[YorksDMU]

It has changed, ToCs have dropped the essential travel message, they just say to wear a facemask and consider alternative modes before taking the train.

Thank you, that’s very good news. Now all we need is to get service levels back to normal. I live in hope.

 

[dan5324]

National rail App still says only travel if your journey is necessary. Well define “necessary”

 

[Jamesrob637]

There appears to be a misunderstanding.

To be clear, the OP was asking for people how rail travel could be encouraged post-Covid19.

As far as I am aware, no-one is saying that it should be encouraged now, though people are - quite understandably - pointing out that train companies should not be misleading people on what the actual Government advice says.

As I said before, this is arguably not within the remit of this thread, though I certainly can see how it's linked, from the point of view that actively discouraging public transport right now (and going well beyond what the Government advice says) makes it harder to encourage people to travel when the time comes to do that. Clearly there is also likely to be an intermediate period, where travel is neither discouraged nor encouraged.

This month should be the intermediate period of which you speak.

 

[Mikey C]

There appears to be a misunderstanding.

To be clear, the OP was asking for people how rail travel could be encouraged post-Covid19.

As far as I am aware, no-one is saying that it should be encouraged now, though people are - quite understandably - pointing out that train companies should not be misleading people on what the actual Government advice says.

As I said before, this is arguably not within the remit of this thread, though I certainly can see how it's linked, from the point of view that actively discouraging public transport right now (and going well beyond what the Government advice says) makes it harder to encourage people to travel when the time comes to do that. Clearly there is also likely to be an intermediate period, where travel is neither discouraged nor encouraged.

I'm not sure that's entirely correct. The OP said

"Apologies if this has already been discussed but I wondered what people thought would be the best way for TOCs to persuade both leisure travellers and commuters to start using the train again as the lockdown nears its end?"

Which to me is talking about now, a time when the lockdown is being eased, not some time in the future when Covid has gone away completely. Pubs and hairdressers reopening today, all shops open already, social cricket restarting in a week's time etc

In reality, there won't be a magic day when Covid has vanished or we all have been vaccinated for a long time, BUT there will be a significant period where we will have to manage Covid and the risks involved, while trying to get the country going again.

 

[route101]

Im happy to use the train at the moment. Heck might even go on a wee trip this week.

 

[Class 33]

Checking Northern Rail's Twitter feed again now, and they're still at it.

Our trains are for ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY.
Day trips are not essential. X
Help us keep the trains for those that need them.

Although I don't live up north and don't need to use Northern Rail, this does really anger me that they're still coming out with their claptrap on the day when the lockdown is eased again and the travel and leisure industry is opened up again. "Please don't use our trains to go shopping.", "Please don't use our trains to go on day trips.", "Please don't use our trains to for walks in the country.", etc, etc. What an unfriendly, unwelcoming TOC they are! I hope people give them some stick if they continue like this.

My local train operator is GWR. They no longer have any of this "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY", "Please don't use our trains for shopping or day trips.", etc nonsense. Their messaging is more like " If you're travelling by train, please wear a face covering, travel off peak and use mobile ticketing where possible.". And so far within the past few weeks(and indeed within the past few months) I have only been using them for very short local journeys of about 8 minutes each way to go shopping. But this week I intend to get out for a longer journey, though only somewhere no more than about an hour away - due to having to wear uncomfortable face masks. I really look forward to doing some much longer journeys soon, but will hold off on that until the compulsory face mask policy is lifted. How long that is going to be I don't know.

 

[birchesgreen]

Birmingham New Street and Chiltern (probably others too) were tweeting advice to people coming back from the pub and using the train, rather jarring compared to Northern's message.

The message seems so ingrained now, the mayor was tweeting about new buses and saying they were for essential travel only, obviously he has been too busy to look at gov.uk lately.

 

[yorksrob]

Checking Northern Rail's Twitter feed again now, and they're still at it.



Although I don't live up north and don't need to use Northern Rail, this does really anger me that they're still coming out with their claptrap on the day when the lockdown is eased again and the travel and leisure industry is opened up again. "Please don't use our trains to go shopping.", "Please don't use our trains to go on day trips.", "Please don't use our trains to for walks in the country.", etc, etc. What an unfriendly, unwelcoming TOC they are! I hope people give them some stick if they continue like this.

My local train operator is GWR. They no longer have any of this "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY", "Please don't use our trains for shopping or day trips.", etc nonsense. Their messaging is more like " If you're travelling by train, please wear a face covering, travel off peak and use mobile ticketing where possible.". And so far within the past few weeks(and indeed within the past few months) I have only been using them for very short local journeys of about 8 minutes each way to go shopping. But this week I intend to get out for a longer journey, though only somewhere no more than about an hour away - due to having to wear uncomfortable face masks. I really look forward to doing some much longer journeys soon, but will hold off on that until the compulsory face mask policy is lifted. How long that is going to be I don't know.

The way I look at it, I've been travelling by train for forty years, so I don't need some here today, gone tomorrow sham company lecturing me on when I should be travelling or not.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, the police are now saying "use public transport", at least in the context of pub visits and the prevention of drink driving...

Make sure you plan your journey home by taxi, public transport, or with a sober designated driver, in advance.

 

[northernchris]

Thank you, that’s very good news. Now all we need is to get service levels back to normal. I live in hope.

I was on a Northern service today and noticed the labelled out of use seats were confined to every aisle seat, with every window seat being available. It was a double set, whereas pre-Covid would have been allocated 2 carriages, so it actually had the same seated capacity as March. I noticed another unit had lost its out of use covers on seat completely, so although there's still a lot of services to be reintroduced, capacity looks to be increasing onboard

 

[yorksrob]

I was on a Northern service today and noticed the labelled out of use seats were confined to every aisle seat, with every window seat being available. It was a double set, whereas pre-Covid would have been allocated 2 carriages, so it actually had the same seated capacity as March. I noticed another unit had lost its out of use covers on seat completely, so although there's still a lot of services to be reintroduced, capacity looks to be increasing onboard

That's interesting. The Northern trains I was on either had all the sash's or none at all. None had been noticably reconfigured.

 

[DB]

Checking Northern Rail's Twitter feed again now, and they're still at it.

Although I don't live up north and don't need to use Northern Rail, this does really anger me that they're still coming out with their claptrap on the day when the lockdown is eased again and the travel and leisure industry is opened up again. "Please don't use our trains to go shopping.", "Please don't use our trains to go on day trips.", "Please don't use our trains to for walks in the country.", etc, etc. What an unfriendly, unwelcoming TOC they are! I hope people give them some stick if they continue like this.

I don't know what it is with the Northern franchise, but all of them since privatisation have been fairly anti-passenger (although nothing like this, of course), and have consistently demonstrated the 'couldn't care less' approach, plus having some of the dirtiest, tattiest trains of any TOC.

Most of their frontline staff (apart from some barrier jobsworths) are fine, and always have been, but the companies themselves have never given a very good impression.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know what it is with the Northern franchise, but all of them since privatisation have been fairly anti-passenger (although nothing like this, of course), and have consistently demonstrated the 'couldn't care less' approach, plus having some of the dirtiest, tattiest trains of any TOC.

Most of their frontline staff (apart from some barrier jobsworths) are fine, and always have been, but the companies themselves have never given a very good impression.

I don't know. Serco/Abellio Northern seemed to have a fairly cheerful make do and mend approach.

The current franchise has tried to do some good with new trains and services but was hobbled by the industrial relations issue early on and now seems to be coming out poorly (in comparison with other franchises) with COVID.

 

[DB]

I don't know. Serco/Abellio Northern seemed to have a fairly cheerful make do and mend approach.

The current franchise has tried to do some good with new trains and services but was hobbled by the industrial relations issue early on and now seems to be coming out poorly (in comparison with other franchises) with COVID.

Under Serco/Abellio, the trains were probably the filthiest and tattiest I've ever seen them - the current lot are marginally better for this.

 

[yorksrob]

Under Serco/Abellio, the trains were probably the filthiest and tattiest I've ever seen them - the current lot are marginally better for this.

True to an extent, although I still maintain that they've gone about replacing the wrong seats (158/6's instead of 150's).

To be fair to old Northern, they did a nice job of facelifting some of their units - the 144's had a particularly nice purple/lilac ambiance. There were too many tatty 142's etc around though.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Checking Northern Rail's Twitter feed again now, and they're still at it.



Although I don't live up north and don't need to use Northern Rail, this does really anger me that they're still coming out with their claptrap on the day when the lockdown is eased again and the travel and leisure industry is opened up again. "Please don't use our trains to go shopping.", "Please don't use our trains to go on day trips.", "Please don't use our trains to for walks in the country.", etc, etc. What an unfriendly, unwelcoming TOC they are! I hope people give them some stick if they continue like this.

My local train operator is GWR. They no longer have any of this "ESSENTIAL TRAVEL ONLY", "Please don't use our trains for shopping or day trips.", etc nonsense. Their messaging is more like " If you're travelling by train, please wear a face covering, travel off peak and use mobile ticketing where possible.". And so far within the past few weeks(and indeed within the past few months) I have only been using them for very short local journeys of about 8 minutes each way to go shopping. But this week I intend to get out for a longer journey, though only somewhere no more than about an hour away - due to having to wear uncomfortable face masks. I really look forward to doing some much longer journeys soon, but will hold off on that until the compulsory face mask policy is lifted. How long that is going to be I don't know.

They're dropping it from tomorrow

I wouldn't use Northern on a Sunday even pre-COVID-19 to be fair. Too sparse a service and cancellations while greatly reduced from a year or two ago were still occasional.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

They're dropping it from tomorrow

Yes, I heard that too. I spoke to a Northern guard on Friday evening and she said the stupid "out of use" sashes are going from tomorrow as well.

 

[Starmill]

I think the people claiming that there's no need for any form of intervention, or only a light-touch way such as improving the operation and dropping what they call hostile messaging, are probably in some denial about just how dire the financial straits are now for the industry.

It reminds me of how well the giant ash cloud did for the railway, when people who never used trains tried them for the first time and thought they weren't so bad, but in reverse.

I see that today the think tank Resolution Foundation are urging the Treasury to offer £500 spending vouchers to adults in England. It seems unlikely to me that any such consumer spending incentive will be forthcoming from this Chancellor, but if it is, it would be an excellent beginning to make it available for bus and rail journeys.

 

[DB]

I think the people claiming that there's no need for any form of intervention, or only a light-touch way such as improving the operation and dropping what they call hostile messaging, are probably in some denial about just how dire the financial straits are now for the industry.

It reminds me of how well the giant ash cloud did for the railway, when people who never used trains tried them for the first time and thought they weren't so bad, but in reverse.

I agree.

When even those of us who up until now have been very pro-public-transport are in many cases actively looking at getting cars, it shows just how successful the railways (and bus companies) have been at alienating their user base. They seem not to realise that they can't tell everyone to go away for months, then expect them all to come back when they decide that they want the ticket revenue again (which will probably be when the government funding stops and franchisees are responsible again). It doesn't help that my local operator is Northern, who have been probably the most extreme in their hostile messaging over the past few months.

 

[squizzler]

When even those of us who up until now have been very pro-public-transport are in many cases actively looking at getting cars, it shows just how successful the railways (and bus companies) have been at alienating their user base.

Is there any evidence to support this actually happening, or are people making appropriately supportive noises about motoring whilst continuing to take the train (or mostly stay at home)?

I don't know a motor dealer to ask, but business pages seem more concerned about the plight of the motor trade than the rail industry. Certainly, sales figures suggest that nobody is actually buying (new) cars right now, and many people who lease them are handing back the keys. The grass is not always greener!

 

[DB]

Is there any evidence to support this actually happening, or are people making appropriately supportive noises about motoring whilst continuing to take the train (or mostly stay at home)?

I don't know a motor dealer to ask, but business pages seem more concerned about the plight of the motor trade than the rail industry. Certainly, sales figures suggest that nobody is actually buying (new) cars right now, and many people who lease them are handing back the keys. The grass is not always greener!

It's difficult to tell at the moment due to the number still furoughed and home working, and the fact that the hostile messaging is only ending this weekend - but the next month will no doubt give a good indication.

Most likely to be largely second-hand cars, I would have thought.

 

[Starmill]

It takes a lot more to come back from "Thank you for not travelling with us today" than it does from car dealers simply being closed.

 

[Ianno87]

It takes a lot more to come back from "Thank you for not travelling with us today" than it does from car dealers simply being closed.

It would be akin to car dealers remaining open and saying "key workers only" or "we're open, but please do not buy a car unless it is essential"

 

[DB]

It would be akin to car dealers remaining open and saying "key workers only" or "we're open, but please do not buy a car unless it is essential"

And from what I've seen (yes, I have been looking!) car dealers mostly opened as soon as it was allowed again, and they were one of the first categories where it was allowed.

 

[DB]

"Thank you for not travelling with us today"

Certainly in the case of Northern, it's not been that polite!

(I see I've been edited - we seem to have a very puritanical view on here as to what consitutes 'bad language'!)

 

[Starmill]

It's what they said just a few hours ago but OK.

https://twitter.com/northernassist/status/1279686463995744257

Thank you for choosing not to travel with us today, helping to keep the trains for those who need them.

If you are making an essential journey, plan ahead https://t.co/NG4sfYSrmC https://t.co/YMo3gkfuQT

 

[philosopher]

Is there any evidence to support this actually happening, or are people making appropriately supportive noises about motoring whilst continuing to take the train (or mostly stay at home)?

I know a couple who are thinking of buying a car as they have the impression that they should not be using public transport. I am not whether they will actually go ahead and buy a car though.

 

[Huntergreed]

I know a couple who are thinking of buying a car as they have the impression that they should not be using public transport. I am not whether they will actually go ahead and buy a car though.

I know a few people who have bought a car because they’ve said the transport operators obviously don’t want them anymore.