South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Doveymain158]

I know that. The depot that's there now though, the one that's already been built, is a temporary construction depot.

The permenant rail depot you're referring to is a different thing entirely and will be built later.

Im under the impression that Treforest is going to be a permanent site. Thats where maintenance staff is going to be based.

 

[Cardiff123]

Im under the impression that Treforest is going to be a permanent site. Thats where maintenance staff is going to be based.

What's been built in Treforest to date has been a temporary building for the next 4 -5 years as a base for the construction of the Metro on the CVL.
The permanent maintenance depot and control centre on the Treforest site is yet to be built

 

[Fieldar]

Taffs Well = permanent maintenance depot and control centre

New £100m train depot to open in Taffs Well | Transport for Wales

The Welsh Government will invest nearly £100m in the new Transport for Wales depot which will house and service 36 of the new Metro vehicles operat

trc.cymru

Treforest Estate = Metro Infrastructure Hub

Transport For Wales News - Home

News from Transport For Wales

news.tfwrail.wales

 

[CaldicotHalt]

Do we know what is involved in Phase 2 works. I have looked on their website but can't find anything definite.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Do we know what is involved in Phase 2 works. I have looked on their website but can't find anything definite.

What do you mean by Phase 2 works? Stuff that is not in the current plan? Or a phasing of the work already committed to? If the former then I don't think there is any formal commitment, so nothing that would appear on their website, other than maybe a vague aspiration.

 

[CaldicotHalt]

Linking to this story on the BBC website yesterday. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales...s-business&link_location=live-reporting-story
It's exactly what works are being carried out from August.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Ah ok. Well this was asked just a few posts up, and there is one broad answer that the work is to do with wiring (maybe putting "a few posts up" even), but no more specific than that. I think it might be helpful if there was more publicity as to what is being carried out, so that people a) start to see firm progress and b) understand the need for the line closures. This is an exciting project for the Valleys, and it would do no harm to promote it more.

 

[anthony263]

Plus we might see the class 398s operating alongside the class 150s until the rhondda valkeys are wired.

 

[anthony263]

I thonk people will be looking forward to seeing the new rolling stock

 

[Cardiff123]

Full details of upcoming construction work can be found here: https://tfwrail.wales/metro/faq

And more general info here: https://tfwrail.wales/metro

 

[Cardiff123]

TfW Rail's detailed Metro pages are here: https://tfwrail.wales/metro

 

[Tumbleweed]

Do we know what is involved in Phase 2 works. I have looked on their website but can't find anything definite.

Phase 2 is what's about to commence. From the BBC news page:

"Phase two work, upgrading lines on the Merthyr, Treherbert, Aberdare and Rhymney lines, is scheduled to be completed by 2023"

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Phase 2 is what's about to commence. From the BBC news page:

"Phase two work, upgrading lines on the Merthyr, Treherbert, Aberdare and Rhymney lines, is scheduled to be completed by 2023"

Thanks! Any info on what that upgrade involves? (There are too many posts for me to search through this thread, and the official South Wales Metro site doesn't seem to be that informative).

 

[Tumbleweed]

Thanks! Any info on what that upgrade involves? (There are too many posts for me to search through this thread, and the official South Wales Metro site doesn't seem to be that informative).

Off the top of my head, electrification, some new stations, track redoubling in places.

 

[Envoy]

Thanks! Any info on what that upgrade involves? (There are too many posts for me to search through this thread, and the official South Wales Metro site doesn't seem to be that informative).

Please see this PDF of the upgrade work:>

 

[yorkie]

We are currently consulting on how to structure threads regarding the South Wales metro; if you wish to be part of that discussion, please contact me.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Full details of upcoming construction work can be found here: https://tfwrail.wales/metro/faq

Reading between the lines of this it doesn't look like they're putting in any of the electrification infrastucture at this stage.

"A whole package of works is planned including track and signalling work along with general maintenance" seems to suggest that they're bringing everything else up to spec before starting to put up the wires.

 

[Envoy]

The Aberdare to Hirwaun track still exists though looks like it should do with replacement. Photo 1 shows the site of the original Hirwaun station - which is now tucked away behind houses. It looks to me like Hirwaun could do with 2 stations - if & when they re-open this route as part of the Metro. I would suggest that the second station should be by the A4059 in order to provide the best link with Penderyn. Photo 2 shows the view from the A4059 bridge looking SE. Photo 3 shows the view from the same bridge looking NW. Unfortunately some new houses are being built on land that could have been a Park & Ride car park at this location. That now being so, to provide a P&R at this location, the only vacant land available lies on the Penderyn side of the track. I also note that some form of construction is now taking place between The City Line & the Main Line at the probable location of the Ely Mill station. I would have hoped that this land could also have been used for car parking. Many on here will be against car parking at such stations but the fact is that if parking is not provided, people will either make whole journeys by car or park in residential areas - as can be witnessed already at various locations. It is imperative that those planning The Metro should secure land for parking at station locations where this exists.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The Aberdare to Hirwaun track still exists though looks like it should do with replacement. Photo 1 shows the site of the original Hirwaun station - which is now tucked away behind houses. It looks to me like Hirwaun could do with 2 stations - if & when they re-open this route as part of the Metro. I would suggest that the second station should be by the A4059 in order to provide the best link with Penderyn. Photo 2 shows the view from the A4059 bridge looking SE. Photo 3 shows the view from the same bridge looking NW. Unfortunately some new houses are being built on land that could have been a Park & Ride car park at this location. That now being so, to provide a P&R at this location, the only vacant land available lies on the Penderyn side of the track. I also note that some form of construction is now taking place between The City Line & the Main Line at the probable location of the Ely Mill station. I would have hoped that this land could also have been used for car parking. Many on here will be against car parking at such stations but the fact is that if parking is not provided, people will either make whole journeys by car or park in residential areas - as can be witnessed already at various locations. It is imperative that those planning The Metro should secure land for parking at station locations where this exists.

View attachment 81182View attachment 81183View attachment 81184View attachment 81185

Those hoses in the last photo are very grand for a south Wales valley community. I wonder if Hirwaun is beginning to gentrify a little due to its proximity to the Beacons.

As far as parking at Ely Mill station goes, I think you can pretty much forget it. Land values are sky high in Canton and Victoria Park and, apart possibly from a few disabled spaces, I think a P&R in Canton is pretty much out of the question.

 

[anthony263]

Think the only place around that area where a car park could be build is by waun gron 0ark Station using the land where the recycling centre used to be although there are ideas of putting a bus interchange there

 

[Envoy]

Those hoses in the last photo are very grand for a south Wales valley community. I wonder if Hirwaun is beginning to gentrify a little due to its proximity to the Beacons.

As far as parking at Ely Mill station goes, I think you can pretty much forget it. Land values are sky high in Canton and Victoria Park and, apart possibly from a few disabled spaces, I think a P&R in Canton is pretty much out of the question.

Every valley community will have some well paid people. By building such houses, it avoids them having to commute from places with desirable housing such as the Vale of Glamorgan or Radyr.
Even outsiders might consider such houses due to their proximity to the Brecon Beacons National Park. The Heads of the Valleys Road (A465) also offers good access and should be completely dualled by 2060 - judging by the rate of progress thus far. Indeed, travelling down the Vale of Neath on the A465 expressway, one could be forgiven that they are driving on a German super highway through Bavaria. With land reclamation taking place at the former Tower Colliery site and the new Zip Wire attraction planned, it is indeed seeing something of a transformation.

Regarding Ely Mill: hopefully we will see a ticketing system that allows people to transfer between the buses from say Ely to the Metro. However, some people will no doubt drive and dump their cars in nearby streets due to a lack of parking at this station. You can see this happening already at several stations including Llanishen and Grangetown. The Ely Mill planners / Cardiff Council have already screwed up the new Ely Mill development by not allowing enough parking for the number of houses. This has resulted in the new residents parking their cars with the noses facing the houses and the backs of the cars sticking out into the road. (If they parallel parked, they would not have enough spaces so the residents have obviously chosen this way of doing things). It just goes to show that by limiting the number of car parking spaces thinking that the residents would not have cars just does not work. Goodness knows how they will charge the cars at home when they go electric? Wires over the pavements? Neither have they provided any space for buses to pull in and transfer passengers with the Metro at Ely Mill.

 

[Envoy]

Think the only place around that area where a car park could be build is by waun gron 0ark Station using the land where the recycling centre used to be although there are ideas of putting a bus interchange there

Yes, they could quite easily be already using it for car parking for those people who are buying train tickets. Cardiff Council do indeed have plans to have a bus station on this site to enable the transfer of passengers between buses and the Metro. However, those coming to / from Fairwater and St. Fagans already are able to do this due to having a bus stop under Waungron Park station. What I think is non viable is the idea of Cardiff Bus diverting the buses on the Ely route off Cowbridge Road into this bus station and then back onto their original route. This will not go down well due to adding maybe 8 or 9 minutes to the travel time compared to the direct route that they use now. Customers will probably try and use the NAT buses which will no doubt continue to use the direct route between Ely and the city centre via Canton. I should also add that a transfer between Ely buses and the City Circle buses can already take place on Cowbridge Road near the proposed Ely Mill Station.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Regarding Ely Mill: hopefully we will see a ticketing system that allows people to transfer between the buses from say Ely to the Metro. However, some people will no doubt drive and dump their cars in nearby streets due to a lack of parking at this station. You can see this happening already at several stations including Llanishen and Grangetown. The Ely Mill planners / Cardiff Council have already screwed up the new Ely Mill development by not allowing enough parking for the number of houses. This has resulted in the new residents parking their cars with the noses facing the houses and the backs of the cars sticking out into the road. (If they parallel parked, they would not have enough spaces so the residents have obviously chosen this way of doing things). It just goes to show that by limiting the number of car parking spaces thinking that the residents would not have cars just does not work. Goodness knows how they will charge the cars at home when they go electric? Wires over the pavements? Neither have they provided any space for buses to pull in and transfer passengers with the Metro at Ely Mill.

It seems a general problem in Cardiff that housing comes first and the infrastructure it requires comes later. There might well be fewer cars in the new development if the Metro station was already in place. Similarly, Plas Dwr is ploughing ahead at a rate of knots while the proposed rail link won't be built for years if indeed it's built at all.

Adding to the traffic problems in that part of the city is the oddity that the Welsh medium primary schools serving Canton (Ysgol Treganna) and Riverside (Ysgol Pwll Coch) are located within a couple of hundred yards of each other, meaning that both Welsh medium and English medium pupils face long journeys to school. It would have been far better in my view had one of the new builds in Leckwith been used as a new home for an E.M school, like Landsdowne or Kitchener, with their previous premises being used for WM education.

 

[Envoy]

It seems a general problem in Cardiff that housing comes first and the infrastructure it requires comes later. There might well be fewer cars in the new development if the Metro station was already in place. Similarly, Plas Dwr is ploughing ahead at a rate of knots while the proposed rail link won't be built for years if indeed it's built at all.

Adding to the traffic problems in that part of the city is the oddity that the Welsh medium primary schools serving Canton (Ysgol Treganna) and Riverside (Ysgol Pwll Coch) are located within a couple of hundred yards of each other, meaning that both Welsh medium and English medium pupils face long journeys to school. It would have been far better in my view had one of the new builds in Leckwith been used as a new home for an E.M school, like Landsdowne or Kitchener, with their previous premises being used for WM education.

I really do wonder why they have not already built the new Metro station at Ely Mill as after all, the line is up and running - as it has been for many years. Perhaps it is because the Welsh Government were/are hoping that the main line from Cardiff to Swansea would be electrified with Network Rail (UK Government) footing the bill for a new footbridge by the Postal Depot? I can’t see how they can build a new station at Ely Mill on the City Line yet allow the old footbridge over the mainline to stay in place. (Many people struggle to get up and down all the steps with prams/bicycles and this no doubt has resulted in many parents driving children to school at Ysgol Treganna). Meanwhile, Cardiff Council have given planning permission for a new block of flats on the west side of the postal depot - rammed in between 2 railways and the busy Cowbridge Road. What a totally undesirable place to live with high levels of noise and air pollution. I just don’t get it - that the Welsh Government slap 50mph speed limits on the A470 and the M4 at Newport & Port Talbot with electronic signs saying “Slow Down - Air Pollution Kills”, yet it is OK to have new builds where air pollution/noise is a major problem. (The 50mph limits also cause traffic to stack up leading to stop/start and thus increasing air pollution as they burn more fuel).

Yes, it does seem irrational about having two Welsh Language junior schools so close. Apparently an almighty row broke out when it was suggested that Lansdowne should become a Welsh Medium school. The western part of Cardiff is particularly prone to children being driven to school because of all the different types of school. Not only do we have Welsh Language schools but also the Anglican Bishop of Llandaff High, Private Fee Paying Schools such as Howell’s and The Cathedral School plus of course the English Language Comprehensives - Cantonian, Fitzalan and Radyr.

 

[Envoy]

It is not just the Plasdwr development area where no consideration appears to be given in how it would link with future stations on the Metro - should this line ever be built north-westward from Cardiff. The proposed development area between the A4119 and south Creigiau - whilst saying that the former rail line could be used by the Metro Rapid Transit system, fails to indicate where a possible station could be built to serve this area. Of course, we cannot blame the planners for this as indeed, they don’t know what the situation is regarding The Metro - apart from preserving a possible corridor. They do however state that the former railway will become a ‘green’ route for sustainable transport by foot/bicycle - or the Metro. Clearly, both are desirable but if the route becomes a popular cycle route, it is possible that much opposition will surface if they have to then take away this facility and make it a rail route. All the more reason why space should be left to accommodator both. I also note that part of the site is away from the old railway route on the other side of a wood. Surely, provision needs to be made to provide the shortest walking route from the bulk of this western parcel to the possible Metro route to the east and figure out where the optimum place would be for a station? It really seems to be crazy to be planning all this out without considering where the Metro stops would be on this line - in the event that it is ever built in the future. Mention is made that bus passes will be made available for the Stagecoach services that run along the A4119 in order to reduce travel by car. All well and good but such buses would have to get through the Llandaff choke point in order to reach the city centre. My guess is that people would rather sit in a jam in their cars than on a bus. All the more reason why the Metro is so vitally important on this north-west corridor out of Cardiff. You can read more about the development area between the A4119 & Cregiau at the following link. ( Design & Access Statement and Travel Plan would be the most relevant sections to read).

Land South of Creigiau – DPP

dppukltd.com

I also have found a map (in the above) suggesting that the tram-trains could actually take to the main road that links Creigiau with the A4119 or even run along the A4119 itself. That being so, I fail to see how they could keep to schedule - as the current valleys line network does at present because it is segregated from the road. It is absolutely vital that the tram-trains arrive and leave precisely on time for the system to work perfectly. If they take to the road, they cease to be a rapid transit system and end being more like buses - and we all know that bus travel has declined rapidly in recent years whilst rail transport has increased. Here is the map which can be found in the above mentioned documents:>

 

[MarkyT]

I also have found a map (in the above) suggesting that the tram-trains could actually take to the main road that links Creigiau with the A4119 or even run along the A4119 itself. That being so, I fail to see how they could keep to schedule - as the current valleys line network does at present because it is segregated from the road. It is absolutely vital that the tram-trains arrive and leave precisely on time for the system to work perfectly. If they take to the road, they cease to be a rapid transit system and end being more like buses - and we all know that bus travel has declined rapidly in recent years whilst rail transport has increased.

I think reliable light rail networks CAN incorporate road crossings on parts of the network and even short sections of shared running with light general traffic as long as very careful design is employed to avoid any areas where tailbacks can occur and provide strict signal prioritisation measures at intersections. I've been pleasantly surprised how well this can work on parts of Manchester's Metrolink and Nottingham's NET. Planners need to be careful to avoid traffic mixing at very busy locations where volume of traffic can be a problem, but that shouldn't be a problem on the Valleys network, where central Cardiff is and should remain largely grade-separated. That's why for the mooted 'Crossrail' proposal for diverting the city line past Central station towards the Bay, I advocate a new elevated alignment for the fairly short link rather than crossing very busy streets on the level, e.g.:

 

[Envoy]

I think reliable light rail networks CAN incorporate road crossings on parts of the network and even short sections of shared running with light general traffic as long as very careful design is employed to avoid any areas where tailbacks can occur and provide strict signal prioritisation measures at intersections. I've been pleasantly surprised how well this can work on parts of Manchester's Metrolink and Nottingham's NET. Planners need to be careful to avoid traffic mixing at very busy locations where volume of traffic can be a problem, but that shouldn't be a problem on the Valleys network, where central Cardiff is and should remain largely grade-separated. That's why for the mooted 'Crossrail' proposal for diverting the city line past Central station towards the Bay, I advocate a new elevated alignment for the fairly short link rather than crossing very busy streets on the level, e.g.: View attachment 81291

 

[Envoy]

I think that your suggestion of a short elevated route running across Callaghan Square - south of Cardiff Central to link the City Line with the Bay Line is very sensible. Running at street level would clearly not be a good idea at this busy location.

 

[anthony263]

Certainly and could be incorporated into the proposed coach station on the south side of Central station. An elevated section would be good just gotta somehow psth the trains through the junctions by canton depot

 

[anthony263]

progress on the tram train depot st taff wells is going well as I past it earlier