South Wales 'Metro' updates

[edwin_m]

Some infrastructure may be inevitable, as the Valleys timetable is constrained by passing loops on various routes. If the turnaround time at Aberdare is too short to get to Hirwaun and back with a sensible turnaround time there, as it almost certainly is, then a loop will be needed on the section. If designed only for use by tram-trains, the loop may be a bit cheaper than one built to heavy rail standards.

 

[edwin_m]

Exactly that! So as an example, a 30 min service could be achieved without a passing loop, with the southbound service slotting into the appropriate path at Aberdare left vacant by the next northbound service.

That would need the services to and from Hirwaun to pass each other either at Aberdare (probably each waiting there for some time to match the turnaround time of terminating trains) or somewhere a little to the north.

 

[John R]

There wouldn’t be any need to wait there, as you simply adjust the amount of time spent at Hirwaun accordingly. So long as the running time on the extension is no more than 15 mins each way it would work nicely.

Yes, the two trains would need to pass at Aberdare, but I seem to recall that the infrastructure is there already, albeit not a second platform, immediately north of the current station.

 

[edwin_m]

There wouldn’t be any need to wait there, as you simply adjust the amount of time spent at Hirwaun accordingly. So long as the running time on the extension is no more than 15 mins each way it would work nicely.

Yes, the two trains would need to pass at Aberdare, but I seem to recall that the infrastructure is there already, albeit not a second platform, immediately north of the current station.

According to my Quail map (which is some years old so things may have changed) there is a siding just north of Aberdare but no loop. The route looks unobstructed so this could probably be made into a loop and extended if necessary so the trains don't have to stop when passing each other. Aberdare platform looks to be blocking the former second track so a second platform there would be difficult.

There is a non-platform loop at Abercwmboi a mile and a bit to the south with an intervening station at Cwmbach. If the timetable is such that trains pass at Abercwmboi then they will probably need about 5min from there to Aberdare (including the Cwmbach stop), 5min at Aberdare and 5min back again. In this situation converting the siding just north of Aberdare into a loop looks close to the optimum, because it would be about 5min from a northbound train arriving at Aberdare, for it to go into the loop and the corresponding southbound one to move from the loop to Aberdare, make its call there and leave on time. To avoid the need for another loop the train would have to get from this loop up to Hirwaun, wait there, and come back (including any new intermediate stops) all within 25min. I suspect if the trains passed at Mountain Ash instead, then this would need two extra loops even for a 30min interval at Hirwaun.

There's also a trainman-operated level crossing at Robertstown which is close to a roundabout and very tight bend so risky to convert to an automatic type. A frequent passenger service would be incompatible with this method of operation and under Network Rail rules the increased risk would almost certainly lead to closure. Tramway operation might help here, especially as this might be a good site for an intermediate station.

So there is a relatively cheap option if the future timetable is as I have assumed, but even that will require significant track and signaling work.

 

[Envoy]

I would like to make you all aware of the fact that a new Zipworld Tourist attraction is going to open on the site of the old Tower Colliery near Rhigos with people flying off the mountain. That being so, then surely it would be wise to extend the passenger service all the way to this attraction as the line did serve the colliery? By doing that, we could have a new P&R at the point where the line passes the A4059 as this would be the nearest point on the Metro to the village of Penderyn. A mini bus shuttle could link this station with the Whisky Distillery in Penderyn and then to the village from which the footpath begins to Scwd-Yr-Eira Waterfall - along with others in the area. Thus, the Metro could shift people all the way up from the main tourist base in Cardiff to 3 major attractions - zip world, the Penderyn Distillery and the waterfalls. So, we should not just be considering serving the local populous but also bringing visitors into the area.

More on the Zip World:> https://www.zipworld.co.uk/press/view/zip-world-planning

Sean Taylor, Founder and CEO of Zip World, says: " We want to do for Welsh coal communities in South Wales what we’ve done for Welsh slate in North Wales and create adventures that bring great tourism opportunities to the local area and fuel the local economy.

Home

Penderyn Distillery is the home of Welsh Whisky and produces award-winning single malt whiskies and spirits in the foothills of South Wales.

penderyn.wales

Bannau Brycheiniog (Brecon Beacons) waterfall walks

Information for safely visiting the waterfall walks in the Bannau Brycheiniog (Brecon Beacons).

www.visitwales.com

Satellite view of area:> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7471173,-3.5201284,8042m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

PS. A railway did go all the way from Hirwaun to the Neath valley.

 

[TrainAndBike]

I am always fascinated by talk of the metro travelling along the City Line North of Fairwater through Pentrebane to Creigau.

I have lived nearly all my life in West Cardiff. As a young man I liked to walk along the disused railways near my house. So I know where a few of them ran. There is a line from Pentrebane that headed westward to the Cory Line (Pontypridd,- Barry) just north of the Viaduct crossing the South Wales Main Line. Certainly a train could have headed north here through Creigau, Church Village, Tonteg and Treforrest when it joined the current line to Pontypridd. It could also take a loop down to the main line (You can still see the bridges over the Ely beside the SWML as you approach St Fagins) and head into Cardiff.

The problem I have is I have never seen any trace of this line much East of Pentrebane. Certainly not on the ground with the housing there and not on old maps. I have seen early 20th century maps and 1960s maps before and after housing. Neither show any sign of a connection to the City Line (Penarth Curve - From Penarth Junchtion(now called Radyr)).

So I conclude that the idea of a reconnection is complete bollocks.

 

[Envoy]

I am always fascinated by talk of the metro travelling along the City Line North of Fairwater through Pentrebane to Creigau.

I have lived nearly all my life in West Cardiff. As a young man I liked to walk along the disused railways near my house. So I know where a few of them ran. There is a line from Pentrebane that headed westward to the Cory Line (Pontypridd,- Barry) just north of the Viaduct crossing the South Wales Main Line. Certainly a train could have headed north here through Creigau, Church Village, Tonteg and Treforrest when it joined the current line to Pontypridd. It could also take a loop down to the main line (You can still see the bridges over the Ely beside the SWML as you approach St Fagins) and head into Cardiff.

The problem I have is I have never seen any trace of this line much East of Pentrebane. Certainly not on the ground with the housing there and not on old maps. I have seen early 20th century maps and 1960s maps before and after housing. Neither show any sign of a connection to the City Line (Penarth Curve - From Penarth Junchtion(now called Radyr)).

So I conclude that the idea of a reconnection is complete bollocks.

I shall refer to this map:> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4982757,-3.2795171,2589m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1

The line of trees clearly marks the route going north-westward from Fairwater towards Cregiau - which hopefully will be used by The Metro. If you click and drag the map eastward from the area of Fairwater Leisure Centre, you will see that it eventually reaches The City Line near the Bishop of Llandaff High School field - with the last part being covered by some houses.

Going the other way, you should be able to clearly see where the aforementioned route crosses the former dual track line that ran from Barry - under Culverhouse Cross via a tunnel and then along the route of what is now the A4232 expressway. (A link existed between this line and the main line at St.Fagans). You can still see the remains of the old rail bridge on the road to St.Brides Super Ely. Just south of here, the line split with one section going N to Cregiau - now obliterated by the A4232. The section that went over the aforementioned bridge and can clearly be seen going northeastward to pass under the road between St. Fagans & the A4119. The remains of the bridge over the A4119 can still be seen. The line then can be seen again N of the M4 and goes just south of Taffs Well quarry and it then headed over the Walnut Tree viaduct across the Taff gorge.

 

[TrainAndBike]

Thankyou. I was looking at a too old OS map around 1900 and too late 1970. A 1930s map clearly shows the connection.

Georeferenced Maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland

maps.nls.uk

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Thankyou. I was looking at a too old OS map around 1900 and too late 1970. A 1930s map clearly shows the connection.

Georeferenced Maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland

maps.nls.uk

Without being unpleasant, can I ask how you reached the conclusion that multiple posters were fantasising about a non-existant railway line?

I mean you said it didn't exist "certainly not on the ground" when you can walk along the damn thing for the first couple of miles.

Why would you do that?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Without being nasty, can I ask how you reached the conclusion that multiple posters were fantasising about a non-existent railway line? I mean you said "certainly not on the ground" when you can walk along the damn thing for the first couple of miles.

Why would you do that?

 

[Llanigraham]

I can't see the residents in Fairwood and Kirton Closes giving up their homes without a very expensive fight!
Valuations for both addresses are around the £2k mark.

 

[Oscar46016]

I am always fascinated by talk of the metro travelling along the City Line North of Fairwater through Pentrebane to Creigau.

I have lived nearly all my life in West Cardiff. As a young man I liked to walk along the disused railways near my house. So I know where a few of them ran. There is a line from Pentrebane that headed westward to the Cory Line (Pontypridd,- Barry) just north of the Viaduct crossing the South Wales Main Line. Certainly a train could have headed north here through Creigau, Church Village, Tonteg and Treforrest when it joined the current line to Pontypridd. It could also take a loop down to the main line (You can still see the bridges over the Ely beside the SWML as you approach St Fagins) and head into Cardiff.

The problem I have is I have never seen any trace of this line much East of Pentrebane. Certainly not on the ground with the housing there and not on old maps. I have seen early 20th century maps and 1960s maps before and after housing. Neither show any sign of a connection to the City Line (Penarth Curve - From Penarth Junchtion(now called Radyr)).

So I conclude that the idea of a reconnection is complete bollocks.

If you are talking about Radyr Way Ect - the line is now a footpath and tuns between Tangmere Drive and Fairwood Road

 

[TrainAndBike]

I appologise. I was living in Culverhouse Cross as a teenager 40 years ago. I walked out of the City from the Wenvoe Tunnel to the Llanltrisant road twice (the big walk Radyr once, St Fagins often. I would not have met the Llantrisant Number 1 branch until North of Creigau which is a very long way for a small boy. I would not start at Fairwater, Cantonion is the "Enemy" school. I have no idea why I deny the existance of the Llantrisant number 1 branch I know the bridge on Crofft Y Genau road (St Fagins - Rhyd Lafa road). I know where the bridge over the Llantrisant road was. The older map shows it clearly. I am insane. Sorry.

 

[Envoy]

I appologise. I was living in Culverhouse Cross as a teenager 40 years ago. I walked out of the City from the Wenvoe Tunnel to the Llanltrisant road twice (the big walk Radyr once, St Fagins often. I would not have met the Llantrisant Number 1 branch until North of Creigau which is a very long way for a small boy. I would not start at Fairwater, Cantonion is the "Enemy" school. I have no idea why I deny the existance of the Llantrisant number 1 branch I know the bridge on Crofft Y Genau road (St Fagins - Rhyd Lafa road). I know where the bridge over the Llantrisant road was. The older map shows it clearly. I am insane. Sorry.

These old rail routes that you walked when young would now make excellent cyclways. In particular, the route that runs north eastward from the road between St.Fagans & St. Brides and then under Croft-Y-Gennau Road and onto Llantrisant Road - where a new bridge would be needed plus some way of crossing the M4 in order to proceed to Morganstown and hence connect with the Taff Trail. (it could also connect with the Ely Trail if a new cycleway link were to be built just west of the St.Fagans Museum). The Plasdwr plans appear to show nothing about using this old rail route as a cycleway). I am sure you are not insane and doubt that you would have been attacked by the Cantonians!

 

[TrainAndBike]

Unfortunately the best part of the walk was from the Wenvoe Tunnel in a deep cutting. It was dry the first times I walked it but one winter the drainage channels got blocked and that section was challenge to keep dry feet. Then the cutting reduces and under the Drope bridge the land continued to fall away down to the river Ely. The track bed is now an increasing embankment and we come to the first viaduct at first the way was open but later the council added a climbing frame that was meant to keep people off the viaduct. The other end another railing to negotiate and continue to the second viaduct over the main line and the St Fagins Loop. The land here is flat and was a little harder to follow.

Sadly although this would make a spectacular cycleway. start at Cadaxton through the tunnel over two viaducts. None of it is there now. The Capel Llaniltern link road destroyed it all. Only the entrance to the tunnel can still be seen. The viaducts and their brick chimney were demolished and the cutting and embankment re-engineered. Sad.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I appologise. I was living in Culverhouse Cross as a teenager 40 years ago. I walked out of the City from the Wenvoe Tunnel to the Llanltrisant road twice (the big walk Radyr once, St Fagins often. I would not have met the Llantrisant Number 1 branch until North of Creigau which is a very long way for a small boy. I would not start at Fairwater, Cantonion is the "Enemy" school. I have no idea why I deny the existance of the Llantrisant number 1 branch I know the bridge on Crofft Y Genau road (St Fagins - Rhyd Lafa road). I know where the bridge over the Llantrisant road was. The older map shows it clearly. I am insane. Sorry.

Apology accepted. You're not insane. We all go off on one on occasions.

 

[allaction]

If you are talking about Radyr Way Ect - the line is now a footpath and tuns between Tangmere Drive and Fairwood Road

I used to work with someone whose house (built perhaps forty years ago now) is near Tangmere Drive (it might be on it, actually) and he was told over a decade ago that it would be compulsorily purchased if the line ever reopened. There are a few houses in that situation.

 

[Envoy]

I think that Tangmere drive can be regarded as ‘safe’. It is Fairwood Close that would probably have to go in order to make the connection with the City Line along with Kirton Close.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

 

[Oscar46016]

yep - there are a couple of house that are right slap bang in the middle of the old track

 

[anthony263]

Boris has come out today saying Westminster will build the M4 relief road as Cardiff Bay won't do oit

 

[Cardiff123]

Boris has come out today saying Westminster will build the M4 relief road as Cardiff Bay won't do oit

Except the UK government can't because it's a devolved matter. More lies and empty rhetoric from the Prime Minister.
Besides, this isn't a thread to discuss the M4, it's been done to death already, so please start a new thread in the relevant forum to discuss it.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Not having travelled north of Cardiff during lockdown, does anyone know if any work has actually started, other than theconstruction of the temporary depot in Taff's Well?

 

[Cardiff123]

Not having travelled north of Cardiff during lockdown, does anyone know if any work has actually started, other than theconstruction of the temporary depot in Taff's Well?

TfW have details on their website of rail replacement buses for work that's starting next month

 

[anthony263]

Not having travelled north of Cardiff during lockdown, does anyone know if any work has actually started, other than theconstruction of the temporary depot in Taff's Well?

There is work starting already. I drive past the site when I drive to work as new adventure travels new depot is right next door

 

[Markdvdman]

I shall be on the train from Merthyr to Cadoxton tomorrow AM fow work, but splitting in Cardiff of course (used to be direct as we know). Will see if I can see anything in the morning!

 

[WelshBluebird]

TfW have details on their website of rail replacement buses for work that's starting next month

Does anyone know what the works that are going to be going on will entail?

 

[anthony263]

Works for installation of overhead wiring

 

[Doveymain158]

Not having travelled north of Cardiff during lockdown, does anyone know if any work has actually started, other than theconstruction of the temporary depot in Taff's Well?

Taffs Well is a permanent depot where the tram trains will be maintained. Traincrew will be based there as will the signalling for all routes North of Queen St.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Taffs Well is a permanent depot where the tram trains will be maintained. Traincrew will be based there as will the signalling for all routes North of Queen St.

I know that. The depot that's there now though, the one that's already been built, is a temporary construction depot.

The permanent rail depot you're referring to is a different thing entirely and will be built later.

 

[Doveymain158]

I know that. The depot that's there now though, the one that's already been built, is a temporary construction depot.

The permenant rail depot you're referring to is a different thing entirely and will be built later.

Im under the impression that Treforest is going to be a permanent site. Thats where maintenance staff is going to be based.