UK face coverings discussion

[adc82140]

I've just broken my toaster. Under normal circumstances I'd have walked in to town, gone in to the hardware shop and browsed for a new one. Today I ordered from Argos online with same day delivery. It'll be here by teatime. Sorry high street, another lost customer, purely because I can't be bothered with masks and one way systems.

 

[AdamWW]

I've just broken my toaster. Under normal circumstances I'd have walked in to town, gone in to the hardware shop and browsed for a new one. Today I ordered from Argos online with same day delivery. It'll be here by teatime. Sorry high street, another lost customer, purely because I can't be bothered with masks and one way systems.

If it's Argos same day delivery, then it's probaby come from a nearby Argos shop anyway rather than a central warehouse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've just broken my toaster. Under normal circumstances I'd have walked in to town, gone in to the hardware shop and browsed for a new one. Today I ordered from Argos online with same day delivery. It'll be here by teatime. Sorry high street, another lost customer, purely because I can't be bothered with masks and one way systems.

Am I the only one who thinks one way systems (provided they are well designed) are great and should be continued? I hate doing the "passing dance" with people coming towards me - not helped by the fact that I appear to go the opposite way naturally than most people, resulting in me being face to face pretty much every time. Some supermarkets de facto have one anyway because of the aisle layout, very few people tend to go back in an odd-aisled Aldi unless they've forgotten something, and when you do you tend to use the middle or end to go back then use the aisle in the "correct" direction as doing otherwise is awkward against the flow.

Masks much less so, very much a necessary evil, but I do find you get used to them unless you've got genuine breathing problems etc.

 

[talldave]

Passing someone head on involves a significantly shorter time spent in close proximity to them than passing someone going in the same direction. Therefore, I see one way systems as not only pointless but actually increasing the risk they were allegedly trying mitigate. But that's the Coronaphobia way of doing things - be seen to be changing something, anything, for "the greater good" even if it's pointless or, worse still, actually making things worse.

Of course it's only relevant if today is the one visit in 20 years it'll take to be in the store at the same time as an infected person and be passing them in the same aisle.....

 

[Bantamzen]

Am I the only one who thinks one way systems (provided they are well designed) are great and should be continued? I hate doing the "passing dance" with people coming towards me - not helped by the fact that I appear to go the opposite way naturally than most people, resulting in me being face to face pretty much every time. Some supermarkets de facto have one anyway because of the aisle layout, very few people tend to go back in an odd-aisled Aldi unless they've forgotten something, and when you do you tend to use the middle or end to go back then use the aisle in the "correct" direction as doing otherwise is awkward against the flow.

Without too much surprise, I couldn't agree less. In terms of protection against viruses the idea doesn't seem to have any science behind it, and in terms of convivence its a pain in the backside which is probably why they've been largely abandoned in supermarkets. Some pubs are still trying to enforce them, well until you point out to them how poorly they are conceived & the staff go "oh yeah".

As for your preferences, it seems more like you prefer to shop in quieter times with less people, to which I'd respond as a worker from home you are free to choose the time you go. Which would be far more preferable than imposing silly one way systems to suit you and few others.

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Masks much less so, very much a necessary evil, but I do find you get used to them unless you've got genuine breathing problems etc.

Personally I have no plans to "get used" to the bliddy things, as soon as I can discard them I will.

 

[Richard Scott]

Am I the only one who thinks one way systems (provided they are well designed) are great and should be continued? I hate doing the "passing dance" with people coming towards me - not helped by the fact that I appear to go the opposite way naturally than most people, resulting in me being face to face pretty much every time. Some supermarkets de facto have one anyway because of the aisle layout, very few people tend to go back in an odd-aisled Aldi unless they've forgotten something, and when you do you tend to use the middle or end to go back then use the aisle in the "correct" direction as doing otherwise is awkward against the flow.

Masks much less so, very much a necessary evil, but I do find you get used to them unless you've got genuine breathing problems etc.

Possibly? I hate one way systems and not ever being able to see people's faces means can't read their mood. Passing just one person who smiles actually can brighten up your day. You must try it sometime.

 

[45107]

Of course it's only relevant if today is the one visit in 20 years it'll take to be in the store at the same time as an infected person and be passing them in the same aisle.....

Considering that the Worldometer site of figures states that UK has 1 case per 221 people, you must lead a very sheltered life if it would take 20 years to meet that number of people.

 

[talldave]

Considering that the Worldometer site of figures states that UK has 1 case per 221 people, you must lead a very sheltered life if it would take 20 years to meet that number of people.

I think you need to do your research a little better than that.

EDIT - to clarify a bit further, you're assuming that every "case" is still infectious and capable of passing it on. So your assumption is that even the dead are walking around infecting others!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Possibly? I hate one way systems and not ever being able to see people's faces means can't read their mood. Passing just one person who smiles actually can brighten up your day. You must try it sometime.

I'm not interested in the mood of someone in a supermarket. I go there to buy food, not to socialise. Places like pubs are for socialising.

 

[Domh245]

Am I the only one who thinks one way systems (provided they are well designed) are great and should be continued?

A very big proviso! I don't think I've seen a single good one so far, and I'd be quite miffed if they were continued. Poundshops always felt the closest to a 'one-way' system pre-COVID, and they were never an enjoyable experience as a result. Certainly in big supermarkets I think a properly done one way system would be a rather grim experience - if I need things from a handful of aisles, I don't want to be funnelled down the pet aisle or seasonal goods (which no doubt the supermarkets would love, think of all those captive eyes you can try and flog stuff too as they all file past!)

 

[talldave]

I'm not interested in the mood of someone in a supermarket. I go there to buy food, not to socialise. Places like pubs are for socialising.

We're all following your rules now are we?

Personally I find the ability to see someone's face and exchange a smile a positive thing and significantly more enjoyable than looking at endless sad eyes peering out from a covered face.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Considering that the Worldometer site of figures states that UK has 1 case per 221 people, you must lead a very sheltered life if it would take 20 years to meet that number of people.

It isn't anywhere near that. Either it's that we have had one case per 221 people (i.e. total cases ever / population), or they're not taking into account people who have got better because the UK is not publishing that figure (so they're assuming that every case we ever had is still active unless they died). Not sure which but that'll be why.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We're all following your rules now are we?

Where did I say that? I just said I like one way systems, it doesn't mean you have to. It's one feature of shopping in Aldi (provided it has 5 aisles and not 4, as 4-aisled ones give you a collision in the last aisle) compared with others - there's (normally) no formal one way system but the layout leads everyone round one way so very few go against the default.

And masks I find to be a necessary evil, I don't like them but I do believe they will help against COVID.

 

[Domh245]

It's one feature of shopping in Aldi (provided it has 5 aisles and not 4, as 4-aisled ones give you a collision in the last aisle) compared with others

Surely it's the 4 aisle layouts that work by default as a one-way system? 4 aisles gives you 2 'up' and 2 'down', a 5 aisle means having to retrace a section (or miss an aisle), unless the exit is in the opposite corner of the store from the entrance

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely it's the 4 aisle layouts that work by default as a one-way system? 4 aisles gives you 2 'up' and 2 'down', a 5 aisle means having to retrace a section (or miss an aisle), unless the exit is in the opposite corner of the store from the entrance

Sorry, yes, clearly hard-of-maths this morning!

 

[Richard Scott]

And masks I find to be a necessary evil, I don't like them but I do believe they will help against COVID.

I don't like them and I'm sure they're not helping against the virus spread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't like them and I'm sure they're not helping against the virus spread.

With the incubation period being between 1 and 2 weeks, and admission to hospital being likely 2 weeks or so later, I don't think we've given them long enough to know that. A couple more weeks and the effect should be more visible on the figures either way.

 

[Bantamzen]

With the incubation period being between 1 and 2 weeks, and admission to hospital being likely 2 weeks or so later, I don't think we've given them long enough to know that. A couple more weeks and the effect should be more visible on the figures either way.

The median period is believed to be around 5.2 days, so we are well into the period that we should be starting to see an effect.

 

[trebor79]

The median period is believed to be around 5.2 days, so we are well into the period that we should be starting to see an effect.

We are seeing an effect - infection numbers are rising.

 

[talldave]

I do hope someone collects some statistics on the increase in respiratory infections - non Covid related. I don't see how millions of people walking around with germ infested rags over their airways isn't going to have a negative effect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We are seeing an effect - infection numbers are rising.

That effect goes back before masks were mandatory so cannot be ascribed to them.

 

[Domh245]

Be careful not to confuse positive tests with infection numbers. They're obviously linked, but the number of positive tests alone doesn't tell the whole story

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Where did I say that? I just said I like one way systems, it doesn't mean you have to. It's one feature of shopping in Aldi (provided it has 5 aisles and not 4, as 4-aisled ones give you a collision in the last aisle) compared with others - there's (normally) no formal one way system but the layout leads everyone round one way so very few go against the default.

And masks I find to be a necessary evil, I don't like them but I do believe they will help against COVID.

As you didn’t specify only shops, I hope you are aware from these forums the ludicrous and lengthy detour these one-way systems impose at some major stations?
At Finsbury Park, if changing from National Rail to the tube, towards central London, you have to actually EXIT the station on the eastern side, walk past random strangers in traffic-clogged streets, re-enter the tube station on the western side, a good ten-minute diversion for a fit person, assuming green signals at pedestrian crossings. When the spiral staircases were open, you could get from NR platforms to tube level in under a minute!!
Even coming from tube to National Rail involves exiting the station and re-entering, at least doubling the transfer time.
Kings Cross is similarly stupid, and they persist with ‘following the arrows’ late at night, when there are so few passengers you could drive a bus through the spaces between people if the rules were relaxed, in accordance with passenger numbers !!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

As you didn’t specify only shops, I hope you are aware from these forums the ludicrous and lengthy detour these one-way systems impose at some major stations?
At Finsbury Park, if changing from National Rail to the tube, towards central London, you have to actually EXIT the station on the eastern side, walk past random strangers in traffic-clogged streets, re-enter the tube station on the western side, a good ten-minute diversion for a fit person, assuming green signals at pedestrian crossings. When the spiral staircases were open, you could get from NR platforms to tube level in under a minute!!
Even coming from tube to National Rail involves exiting the station and re-entering, at least doubling the transfer time.
Kings Cross is similarly stupid, and they persist with ‘following the arrows’ late at night, when there are so few passengers you could drive a bus through the spaces between people if the rules were relaxed, in accordance with passenger numbers !!!

I've created a new thread to reply to this and discuss one way systems in more detail: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/one-way-systems-good-and-bad.207443/

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Where did I say that? I just said I like one way systems, it doesn't mean you have to. It's one feature of shopping in Aldi (provided it has 5 aisles and not 4, as 4-aisled ones give you a collision in the last aisle) compared with others - there's (normally) no formal one way system but the layout leads everyone round one way so very few go against the default.

And masks I find to be a necessary evil, I don't like them but I do believe they will help against COVID.

Indeed. I'd much rather be forced to wear a mask all the time but at least enjoy the freedom of travelling, rather than risking another lockdown.

 

[birchesgreen]

No, one way systems in supermarkets are rubbish.

They make you go down every aisle even if you want nothing from that aisle.
If you forget something you can't go back.
If you go on spec looking for inspiration for tonight's dinner they arn't much good.

Apart from that they are wonderful.

 

[DB]

If you forget something you can't go back.

Or you end up going round and round the whole place, spending more time in there than necessary...

Tesco is now my first choice of supermarket on the basis that they have got rid of all the barriers, queueing and one-way systems.

 

[Richard Scott]

Indeed. I'd much rather be forced to wear a mask all the time but at least enjoy the freedom of travelling, rather than risking another lockdown.

Issue is you're assuming they reduce infection rates, which is somewhat unproven and any evidence we do have isn't that strong (please can I ask someone doesn't post yet another link to evidence, think done that one to death, I'm capable of reading it all and coming to my own conclusions). If they were that good then think majority of us would go along with it. At the moment don't see masks as the answer to the virus issues.

 

[trebor79]

Indeed. I'd much rather be forced to wear a mask all the time but at least enjoy the freedom of travelling, rather than risking another lockdown.

Issue is you're assuming they reduce infection rates, which is somewhat unproven and any evidence we do have isn't that strong (please can I ask someone doesn't post yet another link to evidence, think done that one to death, I'm capable of reading it all and coming to my own conclusions). If they were that good then think majority of us would go along with it. At the moment don't see masks as the answer to the virus issues.

I'd rather parts of the economy stayed closed rather than risk having to explain myself every time I go shopping without a mask.

 

[Huntergreed]

Not sure what it is like elsewhere, but my friend at the local McDonald's said they have been instructed to allow nobody in without a mask on (no exceptions/exemptions). Is this a national policy or just completely inconsiderate and discriminatory local management?