UK face coverings discussion

Mag_seven

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As face coverings are now mandatory in most public indoor settings from today in most of the UK, this thread has been set up to continue the general discussion of this issue.

thanks
 
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Mintona

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I tried one on the other day for the first time on a train journey of around 50 minutes. I fiddled with it approximately every fifteen seconds and moved it mostly out of the way at one point so I could continue chewing my nails as normal (the rules don’t specify you have to be eating food).
I’m not convinced I was getting a lot of benefit from it.

But then, I was about eight metres away from the next closest person so I doubt it particularly matters.

I also visited the CoOp a few days ago and the lady behind the till (and Perspex sheet) was wearing one. She touched her face four times during the course of scanning my shopping to adjust it. I couldn’t help but feel she was far more likely to ‘contaminate’ my goods that way than if she had just not had one on at all.
 
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Scrotnig

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The BBC are reporting this:

The chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales, John Apter, has urged shops to refuse entry to anyone not wearing a face covering in England.
He said: "I would urge retail outlets to play their part in making the rules crystal clear; if you are not wearing a face covering then you are not coming in.


No mention of exemptions of course. Yet another reason exempted people like myself may feel excluded from shops completely.
 

duncanp

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No mention of exemptions of course. Yet another reason exempted people like myself may feel excluded from shops completely.
He's not the only one.

Coming back on the bus from the coffee shop this morning I picked up a copy of The Metro, and in it was a letter along the lines of

"..my right not to be infected by COVID-19 is more important than your right not to wear a mask due to your medical condition. Stop being selfish and wear a mask!!!...."

How utterly depressing, but sadly predictable is that?

Another letter said that Cressida Dick*** was quite right to say that people without masks should be shamed into leaving a shop.

Also listening Radio 2 at lunchtime, Jeremy Whine said that the rules are confusing, as there are places where face coverings are not compulsory yet, such as cinemas, theatres, leisure centres. Which therefore implies that the pro mask brigade will not be happy, and will not give up, until masks are compulsory everywhere outside the home, and probably inside the home as well.
 

Scrotnig

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Coming back on the bus from the coffee shop this morning I picked up a copy of The Metro, and in it was a letter along the lines of

"..my right not to be infected by COVID-19 is more important than your right not to wear a mask due to your medical condition. Stop being selfish and wear a mask!!!...."
This is a bit like saying to someone who's had their legs amputated;

"Stop being selfish and walk like everyone else does."
 

Scrotnig

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Also listening Radio 2 at lunchtime, Jeremy Whine said that the rules are confusing, as there are places where face coverings are not compulsory yet, such as cinemas, theatres, leisure centres. Which therefore implies that the pro mask brigade will not be happy, and will not give up, until masks are compulsory everywhere outside the home, and probably inside the home as well.
There is a considerable body of people who are demanding that masks be compulsory inside your own home.

It's very scary because I couldn't honestly say the government won't accede to their demands.
 

Richard Scott

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He's not the only one.

Coming back on the bus from the coffee shop this morning I picked up a copy of The Metro, and in it was a letter along the lines of

"..my right not to be infected by COVID-19 is more important than your right not to wear a mask due to your medical condition. Stop being selfish and wear a mask!!!...."

How utterly depressing, but sadly predictable is that?

Another letter said that Cressida Dick*** was quite right to say that people without masks should be shamed into leaving a shop.

Also listening Radio 2 at lunchtime, Jeremy Whine said that the rules are confusing, as there are places where face coverings are not compulsory yet, such as cinemas, theatres, leisure centres. Which therefore implies that the pro mask brigade will not be happy, and will not give up, until masks are compulsory everywhere outside the home, and probably inside the home as well.
Interesting as would have thought not catching a disease was not strictly a right whereas exemption from wearing the mask is.
 

Richard Scott

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There is a considerable body of people who are demanding that masks be compulsory inside your own home.

It's very scary because I couldn't honestly say the government won't accede to their demands.
This whole situation is now just getting beyond the joke. We need a severe dose of reality in this country about this whole virus otherwise life isn't going to be worth living. After my mask experience today not sure I could deal with one for more than a few minutes. Seriously worried I won't be able to go to work soon, and can't work from home, as they'll bring it in there.
 

Skymonster

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The chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales, John Apter, has urged shops to refuse entry to anyone not wearing a face covering in England.
He said: "I would urge retail outlets to play their part in making the rules crystal clear; if you are not wearing a face covering then you are not coming in.
Another letter said that Cressida Dick*** was quite right to say that people without masks should be shamed into leaving a shop.
How utterly tragic that lazy police chiefs are expecting the public to do enforcement for them - even more so that they are encouraging vigilantism without clearly communicating that there are people with very valid exemptions.
 

Scrotnig

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Here's a bit of reality for people in a similar position to me:
BBC News Link

"I literally had it on for two minutes and had a panic attack and threw up in public - it was quite embarrassing," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"I don't like being confronted because I have to explain myself," she said.
"Whenever I go out, a lot of people don't even realise that I'm on the spectrum so they just look at me and think, 'oh she is just a normal person, why is she not wearing a mask?'"


People like this are effectively being told they are not allowed to go in shops any more.
And nobody, least of all the government, gives a damn.
 

AdamWW

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There is a considerable body of people who are demanding that masks be compulsory inside your own home.

It's very scary because I couldn't honestly say the government won't accede to their demands.
I think there are quite a few legitimate things to be worried about at the moment. Not this one though.
 

Scrotnig

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I think there are quite a few legitimate things to be worried about at the moment. Not this one though.
I think there is a very realistic risk of "masks everywhere outside the home" though.

At which point we are going to see people with exemptions being attacked in the street. And nobody will care.

We are slowly throwing people with disabilities and inconvenient medical conditions under the bus. Note that at least one heritage railway has seen to fit to say "sorry, wheelchair users are not allowed on our railway" which would have been unthinkable mere months ago. And the law now allows them to do this.

It was mentioned the other day bu someone about a previous regime that started doing this sort of thing.....and again, don't want to go all Godwin but it's becoming a worry. We are encouraging society to ostracise and turn on people with disabilities and medical conditions that don't fit the current agenda. Where will it end?
 

Darandio

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I think there is a very realistic risk of "masks everywhere outside the home" though.

At which point we are going to see people with exemptions being attacked in the street. And nobody will care.
Are people with exemptions being attacked in the supermarket today? Were people with exemptions attacked on public transport over the last few weeks?

Whilst the situation for you and many, many others is quite terrible right now, i'd like to see some real evidence of this happening before deciding whether it's a possibility when just venturing outdoors at some point down the line.
 

Master29

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Here's a bit of reality for people in a similar position to me:
BBC News Link

"I literally had it on for two minutes and had a panic attack and threw up in public - it was quite embarrassing," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"I don't like being confronted because I have to explain myself," she said.
"Whenever I go out, a lot of people don't even realise that I'm on the spectrum so they just look at me and think, 'oh she is just a normal person, why is she not wearing a mask?'"


People like this are effectively being told they are not allowed to go in shops any more.
And nobody, least of all the government, gives a damn.
I don't like the clandestine encouragement of a pitchfork mentality among groups of people. I am also exempt but the language coming out of certain media outlets is almost witch dunking stupidity.
 

duncanp

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And just when you think it couldn't get any worse....

ministers are considering making people wear GLOVES


Ministers have considered gloves to prevent Covid-19 spread
Requiring the public to wear gloves to combat Covid-19 is being considered by the Government.
Speaking in the House of Lords, Conservative Baroness McIntosh of Pickering asked: "Has the Government formed a view on the use of gloves?
"Obviously we're all following the guidance of washing our hands but surely the correct use of gloves outdoors and indoors could prevent the passing on of the virus?"
Health minister Lord Bethell, concluding a debate on coronavirus regulations, replied: "To date, gloves are not in the guidance but they remain an area that we're looking at."
The exchanges came on the day people in England were required to start wearing face coverings in shops, shopping centres, banks, takeaways, post offices, sandwich shops and supermarkets or risk a £100 fine.
If they even try and enforce this, I think the public will start to get seriously p****d off with the whole thing and decide that they hve had enough of being bossed about.

Compulsory gloves?

As a certain former Prime Minister once said "NO, NO, NO" <( <( <( <( <( <(
 

Bletchleyite

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I think there are quite a few legitimate things to be worried about at the moment. Not this one though.
Indeed. Basically because they can make all the rules they like about inside the home but there's really no way to do anything about it.

Gloves are inferior to handwashing so this would be stupid. They are used in situations where repeated handwashing is not practical (e.g. serving in a Subway sandwich place), or in medical contexts where blood-borne diseases may be relevant.
 

ross4122

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And just when you think it couldn't get any worse....

ministers are considering making people wear GLOVES




If they even try and enforce this, I think the public will start to get seriously p****d off with the whole thing and decide that they hve had enough of being bossed about.

Compulsory gloves?

As a certain former Prime Minister once said "NO, NO, NO" <( <( <( <( <( <(
It's been said on numerous occasions by numerous medics and scientists that frequent hand washing is much more effective than wearing gloves. Can't see this happening.

Oh and trust it to be the Torygraph reporting it!
 

AdamWW

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And just when you think it couldn't get any worse....

ministers are considering making people wear GLOVES




If they even try and enforce this, I think the public will start to get seriously p****d off with the whole thing and decide that they hve had enough of being bossed about.

Compulsory gloves?

As a certain former Prime Minister once said "NO, NO, NO" <( <( <( <( <( <(
Unless you're going to remove gloves (in an appropriate fashion so you don't contaminate yourself taking them off) before every time your hands come near your face, I don't see how this is going to work.

There seems to be good evidence that washing with soap and water does work, so shouldn't we just carry on doing that?
 

Bletchleyite

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Are people with exemptions being attacked in the supermarket today? Were people with exemptions attacked on public transport over the last few weeks?

Whilst the situation for you and many, many others is quite terrible right now, i'd like to see some real evidence of this happening before deciding whether it's a possibility when just venturing outdoors at some point down the line.
Certainly I've seen a very vitriolic discussion on the Facebook page of a climbing wall I go to. The wall's policy is masks (unless exempt) when wandering around but not (unless you want to) when climbing, in line with what most gyms are doing, taking account that many people, even those who would not otherwise be exempt, find it very hard to wear one for vigorous physical activity. There were, however, some quite nasty people making remarks that anyone who did not wear one throughout was a "dangerous idiot" and people who are exempt "should be shielding". I've asked as a result that the wall make a clear statement that people must not be confronted over masks, but instead report to staff, and I believe they're going to do this.

Notably, the wall is operating a 2m social distancing policy, which should render them unnecessary anyway, and are booking-only and with significantly reduced numbers on site to enable this.

I am in favour of masks overall but this vitriol is inappropriate. What I don't know, though, is if these people are just "keyboard warriors" and wouldn't actually make such remarks in public, because in that situation it's fairly likely they'll get a thump from someone they annoy, and with climbers being quite strong it'd be a pretty hard one, too.
 

MontyMinerWA

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I'm happy to wear a mask where I'm asked to so. I really don't understand why people have a problem wearing a mask unless they have a medical condition which prevents them from doing so.
 

duncanp

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Unless you're going to remove gloves (in an appropriate fashion so you don't contaminate yourself taking them off) before every time your hands come near your face, I don't see how this is going to work.
The same is true of masks, but that hasn't stopped the government making masks compulsory.

I trust that all the mask enthusiasts follow the rules to the letter, ie. replacing the mask after at least 4 hours and each time you take it off, never touch your face whilst wearing a mask, put it on and take it off in the correct fashion, and dispose of it in a responsible way...
 

Darandio

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I am in favour of masks overall but this vitriol is inappropriate. What I don't know, though, is if these people are just "keyboard warriors" and wouldn't actually make such remarks in public, because in that situation it's fairly likely they'll get a thump from someone they annoy, and with climbers being quite strong it'd be a pretty hard one, too.
This is exactly what I was talking about yesterday in the now locked thread. There are many similar anecdotes but i'm only seeing them online from people hiding behind a screen. I'm not seeing it personally when out and about and i'm also not seeing any actual evidence of it happening elsewhere.
 

ForTheLoveOf

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And just when you think it couldn't get any worse....

ministers are considering making people wear GLOVES




If they even try and enforce this, I think the public will start to get seriously p****d off with the whole thing and decide that they hve had enough of being bossed about.

Compulsory gloves?

As a certain former Prime Minister once said "NO, NO, NO" <( <( <( <( <( <(
It's probably just a wind-up article, but it's a very dangerous suggestion. Gloves might be towards the top of the list of things that make you feel more hygienic and protected, but the virus survives much longer on artificial surfaces such as the plastic material of gloves, than it does on hands. So this suggestion would help the virus spread, not hinder it.

There is no reason whatsoever you should be wearing gloves in normal life. Wash your hands properly and sufficiently frequently and that is all you need to do to ensure they're clean.

In a sense, I wouldn't be surprised if the government did eventually go through with this, because it seems totally in line with their direction of travel. But it would be further proof (as if any more were needed) that they are now simply implementing measures that please the coronaphobes, and are totally disregarding the science.
 

duncanp

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Certainly I've seen a very vitriolic discussion on the Facebook page of a climbing wall I go to.....

....I am in favour of masks overall but this vitriol is inappropriate. What I don't know, though, is if these people are just "keyboard warriors" and wouldn't actually make such remarks in public, because in that situation it's fairly likely they'll get a thump from someone they annoy, and with climbers being quite strong it'd be a pretty hard one, too.
Whilst someone who is 6 foot 4 tall and built like a brick s***house may well thump someone who makes an inappropriate remark to them about masks, this is not an option for people who have conditions such as anxiety, autism, depression etc.

Sadly I can foresee the day when someone takes their own life as a result of mask related harrassment.
 

DavidB

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CityAm are reporting that TfL have stopped 33,000 people for not wearing masks:


Of those, 109 received fixed penalties.

Sorry I can't quote the article.
So presumably that means that the majority of them had a justifiable exemption then, if only 109 penalties were issued?

But the higher figure in the headline looks more alarmist of course, so that's what they use...
 

Bletchleyite

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Whilst someone who is 6 foot 4 tall and built like a brick s***house may well thump someone who makes an inappropriate remark to them about masks, this is not an option for people who have conditions such as anxiety, autism, depression etc.

Sadly I can foresee the day when someone takes their own life as a result of mask related harrassment.
Yes, that is very much a concern. That doesn't make masks bad, but it does show that the process of dealing with exemptions is not adequately effective.
 

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