Carmont (near Stonehaven) derailment - 12 August 2020

[palmersears]

The Nigel Harris interview was awful. Opened up by talking of them as 125mph HST's which the interviewer then suggested could have been the running speed and then claimed there was a fatality, and suggesting it was the driver, when there was at the time of his interview no confirmation of fatalities.

As bad an interview as anyone could have given in the circumstances

It was an absolute shambles from start to finish. Completely forgot the audience he was talking to, and made a series of unfounded claims that, in the circumstances, were both insensitive and ill-judged. Time he called it a day to be honest.

 

[YorkshireBear]

According to The Scotsman:-



I think it's fair to ask why, if Mr. Cortes thinks it is too early to speculate as to the cause of the accident, he is doing just that. His comments are premature and unhelpful at this stage.

Not the time for this from TSSA really.

 

[Swanny200]

First of all condolences to all those affected, seeing those images are very harrowing especially the power car, but no doubt cue the odd unknowledgeable person crowing on about how unsafe HST's are and how old they are, will bring up Ladbroke Grove etc... The one thing to think about is that had we not had the coronavirus situation, plausably at that time of the morning, I would assume that this train could have at least been 10 or more times the amount of passengers on board than the 6 reported?

I did not realize the weather was that bad up at that end, I have friends in Fife who had been hit hard and I had seen pictures of Perth station this morning that looked pretty bad but the pictures of Aberdeen and Stonehaven itself that I have seen since this has been reported looks unlike anything I have seen up there for a long time.

 

[Darandio]

Just to note that the TSSA statement has been amended to remove that speculation. Wholly inappropriate for them to do so in the first place.

 

[Jack in England]

Please remember that there’s railway staff, friends and families of those involved who are part of this group.

Exactly this

 

[backontrack]

Oh no, this is terrible. A tragedy. Thoughts are with those affected, especially who are fighting for their lives.

Yes - it’s an accident like this that really drives home how much kinetic energy and the sheer momentum that is involved with running a train.

There's something chilling about the thought that the driver, who is thought to have passed away, was just driving a train and had called at the seaside town of Stonehaven a few moments beforehand, completely unaware of what was to come. Train drivers put themselves at risk on a daily basis just to get people to work or on holiday. Those pictures of the locomotive and crushed rake are horrifying - a genuine nightmare. It reminds you of the respect due to people who essentially get into the front of high-powered heavy machinery and work the controls every day so that people they don't know can get where they want to be.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I thought the Scottish FM and MP who were just interviewed on BBC News were appropriate and restrained in their comments, although plenty of reference to the severe weather which is techically speculative but understandable under the circumstances.

 

[HeelBurton]

My thoughts prayers and condolences to all of those involved, their families, and loved ones.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train drivers put themselves in such danger on a daily basis just to get people to work or on holiday

That is hyperbolic, I'm afraid. A train driver is safer doing his job than he is driving to work in his car. Same with an airline pilot.

It's tragic when things like this happen, but to suggest a train driver in the UK is "putting themselves in danger" day to day is just untrue.

 

[skawtish]

Whats the source of the information regarding passenger numbers?
Earliest report of passenger numbers seems to be a post in this thread...
Have scotrail, or any official body, confirmed these numbers?

 

[USRailFan]

Whats the source of the information regarding passenger numbers?
Earliest report of passenger numbers seems to be a post in this thread...
Have scotrail, or any official body, confirmed these numbers?

AFAIK it was said a bit further back - three crew and six passengers

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Just to note that the TSSA statement has been amended to remove that speculation. Wholly inappropriate for them to do so in the first place.

I am pleased about that. The ASLEF statement was very well worded and appropriate.

edit (wow 1699 viewing the thread). My thoughts are with everyone and their families.

 

[skawtish]

AFAIK it was said a bit further back - six crew and six passengers

by who?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Reported that Andrew Haines (NR MD) is flying back from holiday in Italy to the site.

 

[Andy Pacer]

AFAIK it was said a bit further back - six crew and six passengers

I did think at the time that six crew seems a bit excessive?

 

[skawtish]

I did think at the time that six crew seems a bit excessive?

as far as i can see the only source for that information is that post in this thread

 

[Validation]

I did think at the time that six crew seems a bit excessive?

6 passengers, 3 crew.

 

[Intermodal]

I did think at the time that six crew seems a bit excessive?

Nobody said six crew. They said three.

 

[southern442]

I did think at the time that six crew seems a bit excessive?

A driver, guard, catering staff? Also could be other crew travelling to/from trains they work.

 

[Royston Vasey]

It looks like the body of a Mk3 from window level down to solebar...

Window level up to solebar, judging by the position of the carriage number. It's inverted

 

[JaJaWa]

The PA feed provided to news agencies says “It is understood 12 people were on board - six passengers and six staff”.

 

[Rob_76]

Another observation: Train 2B13 (0639 Montrose to Stonehaven) - an Express Sprinter, number 158712 - passed the accident spot (reported to be Carmont) probably less than 5 minutes before train 1T08.
That train was running to time until Carmont, but lost 9 minutes in the 5 miles between Carmont and Stonehaven.
Details on RTT: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C59904/2020-08-12/detailed

 

[Jovian98]

Nobody said six crew. They said three.

The Sky News channel earlier quoted the Press Association as saying six crew and six passengers...

 

[USRailFan]

I did think at the time that six crew seems a bit excessive?

Fat fingers... Three crew, of course

 

[Andy Pacer]

Nobody said six crew. They said three.

Sky News did...

 

[Andy Pacer]

A driver, guard, catering staff? Also could be other crew travelling to/from trains they work.

I did wonder if there may be some crew travelling passenger, but im not too familiar with Scotrail operations.

 

[kristiang85]

I thought the Scottish FM and MP who were just interviewed on BBC News were appropriate and restrained in their comments, although plenty of reference to the severe weather which is techically speculative but understandable under the circumstances.

Just to add reasons as to why they are talking about the severe weather, this was posted by NR soon before reports of the incident came in: https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/1293469586193612805 Flash floods can happen frightently quickly.

Definitely this will be a focus. But, as you say, this is obviously still speculation for now.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

That is hyperbolic, I'm afraid. A train driver is safer doing his job than he is driving to work in his car. Same with an airline pilot.

It's tragic when things like this happen, but to suggest a train driver in the UK is "putting themselves in danger" day to day is just untrue.

While I agree with what you are saying, because of the responsibility a train driver has etc for people lives, they are hopefully paid appropriately. Do not want to drift off topic but it can be a traumatic job as this incident shows.

 

[backontrack]

That is hyperbolic, I'm afraid. A train driver is safer doing his job than he is driving to work in his car. Same with an airline pilot.

It's tragic when things like this happen, but to suggest a train driver in the UK is "putting themselves in danger" day to day is just untrue.

It's not exactly an office job, is it?

Maybe I'm just a bit shocked. I've been through Carmont quite a few times, and it's a stretch of the line I know well, so my mind is running amok this morning.

All the same...if you're a car driver, you're driving yourself and maybe your family. Only taxi drivers drive cars for a job. If you're driving a train, you're driving a whole host of people who you flat-out don't know so that they can be where they want to be at a convenient time. And that is dangerous, and yet that doesn't get acknowledged; and no, it's not like being an airline pilot, but it's still more than most would do for a living. The media will always see the railways through the lens of delays, strikes, leaffall and HS2; it's not an accurate depiction of the reality, which - thankfully very rarely - is like this.

 

[skawtish]

The PA feed provided to news agencies says “It is understood 12 people were on board - six passengers and six staff”.

i'm pretty sure they got that from the post in this thread.
neither scotrail, network rail or any of the responding emergency services have made any statements about passenger numbers.