UK face coverings discussion

[MikeWM]

I'm liking this particular MP:

I'm hoping we start to see some real pushback from the 'hard Brexit' Conservative backbenchers who put Johnson into number 10 in the first place. Fysh is a very good example. I doubt they expected this sort of weak nonsense from Johnson.

As the opposition parties are all being uniformly hopeless, they're about the only hope we have of ever moving forwards.

(What a terrible situation! But we are where we are, and strange times make for strange allies).

 

[big_rig]

Poor advice from a professor of public health here:

High school pupils in Scotland to wear face coverings from 31 August

Students will be asked to use masks in corridors, school buses and communal areas where physical distancing is difficult.

www.bbc.co.uk

Keeping a dirty mask in a placcy bag is just going to let mucus, spittle and any germs to soak into the whole thing, and all over the inside of the bag.
Impossible not to get the stuff on your hands.

I grow more convinced by the day that these "face coverings" are disgustingly unhygienic.
I'd be writing an exemption letter for my child.

Very strange quote, that. How does that line up with the UK Gov advice on face coverings below? Are children going to bring a dozen masks with them to school so they can have a fresh one each time they enter a corridor or communal area? Perhaps 'the science' will change on that in order to facilitate this new policy.

When removing a face covering:

• wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water for 20 seconds or use hand sanitiser before removing
• only handle the straps, ties or clips
• do not give it to someone else to use
• if single-use, dispose of it carefully in a residual waste bin and do not recycle
• if reusable, wash it in line with manufacturer’s instructions at the highest temperature appropriate for the fabric
• wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water for 20 seconds or use hand sanitiser once removed

 

[MikeWM]

I was extremely annoyed with the Greens backing the Education Secretary.

Their only MP - Caroline Lucas - supports the totally bonkers 'zero-Covid' strategy that Layla Morgan is pushing! I've voted Green before when I was fed up with Labour, but that sure won't be happening again anytime soon.

 

[Journeyman]

Their only MP - Caroline Lucas - supports the totally bonkers 'zero-Covid' strategy that Layla Morgan is pushing! I've voted Green before when I was fed up with Labour, but that sure won't be happening again anytime soon.

I know what you mean. Given that Semtex Grandpa has gone, and Labour has an actual proper adult in charge again, I can start voting for them again.

 

[py_megapixel]

Because masks protect others, not the individual. If they were for personal protection I would advocate this approach but they're not.

Well for a start, I went shopping today and at least a quarter of the masks I saw had breathing valves, which entirely invalidate such benefits.

But, that aside, if masks are so amazing then why have exemptions at all? Or why not force everybody in the UK ever caught not wearing a mask in public to present written evidence of their health condition from a qualified medical professional at a police station within 7 days? Because it's impractical, distressing, discriminatory and irrational

 

[kez19]

Very strange quote, that. How does that line up with the UK Gov advice on face coverings below? Are children going to bring a dozen masks with them to school so they can have a fresh one each time they enter a corridor or communal area? Perhaps 'the science' will change on that in order to facilitate this new policy.

When removing a face covering:

• wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water for 20 seconds or use hand sanitiser before removing
• only handle the straps, ties or clips
• do not give it to someone else to use
• if single-use, dispose of it carefully in a residual waste bin and do not recycle
• if reusable, wash it in line with manufacturer’s instructions at the highest temperature appropriate for the fabric
• wash your hands thoroughly with soap and water for 20 seconds or use hand sanitiser once removed

Already do that in a care setting (nothing new)....

I maybe misquote here but I’m sure on Sturgeon briefing yesterday she spoke about funding for masks?

 

[Huntergreed]

Already do that in a care setting (nothing new)....

I maybe misquote here but I’m sure on Sturgeon briefing yesterday she spoke about funding for masks?

That’s correct I’m sure she mentioned that she’d be looking at funding for schools to buy and supply their own masks

 

[py_megapixel]

On a slightly different subject from the political quibble behind all of this, in my opinion something really needs to be done about the amount of waste produced by disposable face coverings. I can barely walk the length of a street these days without a used face mask discarded in the gutter. It's disgusting.

 

[Journeyman]

On a slightly different subject from the political quibble behind all of this, in my opinion something really needs to be done about the amount of waste produced by disposable face coverings. I can barely walk the length of a street these days without a used face mask discarded in the gutter. It's disgusting.

Absolutely agreed, it's vile. I live in a rural area and the hedgerows are full of them.

 

[kez19]

That’s correct I’m sure she mentioned that she’d be looking at funding for schools to buy and supply their own masks

Oh I wonder where the funding is coming from... can it be from the Furlough Scheme where businesses are struggling with grants that they cannot be bothered sorting or something else? Maybe a money tree or a pot of gold hidden in Bute House I wonder?

Didn’t realise Schools were turning into care homes.... (funding)

On a slightly different subject from the political quibble behind all of this, in my opinion something really needs to be done about the amount of waste produced by disposable face coverings. I can barely walk the length of a street these days without a used face mask discarded in the gutter. It's disgusting.

I agree with you on that point but nothing will be done...

Add to list: car parks/supermarket/transport

 

[Huntergreed]

Oh I wonder where the funding is coming from... can it be from the Furlough Scheme where businesses are struggling with grants that they cannot be bothered sorting or something else? Maybe a money tree or a pot of gold hidden in Bute House I wonder?

They’re just throwing money away at anything that might help now.

She’s desperate for Rishi to extend the furlough scheme to something like that in Germany (2 years) so she can eliminate it and continue to close things down as she wishes.

It’s obvious she won’t stop these restrictions at least until we’ve achieved zero-Covid (as it’s now being called by some people) and even then I don’t think until herd immunity is achieved through a vaccine she’ll drop them completely.

 

[kez19]

They’re just throwing money away at anything that might help now.

She’s desperate for Rishi to extend the furlough scheme to something like that in Germany (2 years) so she can eliminate it and continue to close things down as she wishes.

Yet if she looked at New Zealand and it’s approach it backfired, oh I agree on the funding she just wants to drag it out as much as possible but it’s not to help the people that need it most, it’s just for her lot to keep locked in a safe for a rainy day fund...

 

[MikeWM]

...I can start voting for them again.

I'd need to see some proper opposition - on things like masks, lockdowns, common sense - before I vote for *anyone* again. My vote is up for grabs for the first party that demonstrates they understand common sense and freedom (and isn't fascist

 

[Andyh82]

The government should just state that face cover wearing won't be mandatory in English schools - you can't get more clear than that. It really is about time Boris started to use that 80 seat majority and start governing rather than pandering to the SNP and teachers unions.

I'm pretty sure Williamson said something along those lines yesterday

But now Scotland have done it, Boris is basically putting kids and teachers at harms risk according to the media

 

[yorkie]

I see even mask enthusiasts can't answer my questions about how schools should enforce this.

Their only MP - Caroline Lucas - supports the totally bonkers 'zero-Covid' strategy that Layla Morgan is pushing! I've voted Green before when I was fed up with Labour, but that sure won't be happening again anytime soon.

Same here!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see even mask enthusiasts can't answer my questions about how schools should enforce this.

It's very, very simple.

Masks are part of the school uniform. Whatever sanction applies for not having the correct uniform shirt (for example) applies to not wearing a mask.

Exceptions would be given by parents writing in and requesting them. Exempt children would be given something to carry to indicate their exemption.

 

[kez19]

I'm pretty sure Williamson said something along those lines yesterday

But now Scotland have done it, Boris is basically putting kids and teachers at harms risk according to the media

I would find it strange (in theory) Boris gives in but karma is set on the media...

I wonder in months to come the damage this will have on society between the numpty politicians and the numpty media

 

[trebor79]

It's probably just a wind-up article, but it's a very dangerous suggestion. Gloves might be towards the top of the list of things that make you feel more hygienic and protected, but the virus survives much longer on artificial surfaces such as the plastic material of gloves, than it does on hands. So this suggestion would help the virus spread, not hinder it.

There is no reason whatsoever you should be wearing gloves in normal life. Wash your hands properly and sufficiently frequently and that is all you need to do to ensure they're clean.

In a sense, I wouldn't be surprised if the government did eventually go through with this, because it seems totally in line with their direction of travel. But it would be further proof (as if any more were needed) that they are now simply implementing measures that please the coronaphobes, and are totally disregarding the science.

I've been heartened by seeing a number of shops recently with signage imploring people NOT to wear gloves. They usually explain that gloves just transfer germs from one place to another, and that santising your hands before and after shopping is better for the individual and everyone else. I even saw an independent shop with a prominent sign saying "Gloves are for hospitals, not shops. Please leave them at home. We will not serve anyone wearing disposable gloves in this shop".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've been heartened by seeing a number of shops recently with signage employing people NOT to wear gloves. They usually explain that gloves just transfer germs from one place to another, and that santising your hands before and after shopping is better for the individual and everyone else. I even saw an independent shop with a prominent sign saying "Gloves are for hospitals, not shops. Please leave them at home. We will not serve anyone wearing disposable gloves in this shop".

Unlike masks, gloves literally serve no purpose and have no conceivable benefit, unless you change them between each surface you touch and do so correctly. It is better to sanitise or wash your hands. I wouldn't however ban them, as there may be people with skin complaints who can't deal with repeated washing/sanitising and so have to wear a pair and wash/sanitise them as if they were their skin.

 

[trebor79]

It's very, very simple.

Masks are part of the school uniform. Whatever sanction applies for not having the correct uniform shirt (for example) applies to not wearing a mask.

Exceptions would be given by parents writing in and requesting them. Exempt children would be given something to carry to indicate their exemption.

Except MacSwinney has already stated nobody will be excluded for not complying. It seems to be "strong guidance dressed up as a legal requirement" and therefore enforceable only to the extent that an individual teacher can be bothered.

 

[Bayum]

It's very, very simple.

Masks are part of the school uniform. Whatever sanction applies for not having the correct uniform shirt (for example) applies to not wearing a mask.

Exceptions would be given by parents writing in and requesting them. Exempt children would be given something to carry to indicate their exemption.

Like.

Schools should be providing necessary ways for students and staff to wash hands when moving from point to point. Therefore, removing masks shouldn’t be a problem.

I recognise, however, that policing the correct form of donning and doffing masks could be rather problematic though.

 

[MikeWM]

I see the media is now reporting that our favourite magic number R may have gone above 1, for the first time since the lockdown started.

Has anything substantive changed in the last month other than masks?

Weren't there suggestions on here in July that we should try out mandatory masking in shops etc. for a few weeks and see what happened? Looks like we have an answer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has anything substantive changed in the last month other than masks?

Yes. People have, by and large, completely given up distancing.

 

[greyman42]

To their credit Sainsbury's do; heard it yesterday, as a follow-up to the face coverings/distancing announcement.

I have never heard an announcement regarding masks in any supermarket.

 

[yorkie]

It's very, very simple....

So simple that my questions have still not been answered . You've posted a generic response that ignores the specific questions I asked!

I see the media is now reporting that our favourite magic number R may have gone above 1, for the first time since the lockdown started....

Could you add a link to, and quote from, any of the media outlets you read this please?

But haven't some sections of the media claimed R is above one on numerous occasions in the past month anyway?!

...Has anything substantive changed in the last month other than masks?...

Reopening of soft play areas and one or two other minor things. But the idea that masks are going to make a large difference seems fanciful; if masks are such a good solution, why are France and Spain seeing an uptick while Sweden is doing much better?

The mask enthusiasts are making things up as they go along.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Yes. People have, by and large, completely given up distancing.

Which seems to be partly thanks to masks - worryingly many people believe they're invincible because of a bit of cloth over their face...

 

[trebor79]

Like.

Schools should be providing necessary ways for students and staff to wash hands when moving from point to point. Therefore, removing masks shouldn’t be a problem.

I recognise, however, that policing the correct form of donning and doffing masks could be rather problematic though.

This just shows how out of touch with reality mask enthusiasts are. Schools don't have hand washing facilities in every classroom, or in the dinner hall, or the assembly hall. The only places hand washing could be done are the toilets, science labs and home economics kitchens.
What do you expect them to do, plumb in hand washing facilities in every classroom and corridor.

Boris just needs to get a grip now, tell Khan and the union officials to do one and categorically state that face masks are not to be made mandatory in schools.

 

[talldave]

Which seems to be partly thanks to masks - worryingly many people believe they're invincible because of a bit of cloth over their face...

If Coronavirus has shown one thing, it's that vast numbers of the population are stupid.

 

[py_megapixel]

It's very, very simple.

Masks are part of the school uniform. Whatever sanction applies for not having the correct uniform shirt (for example) applies to not wearing a mask.

Exceptions would be given by parents writing in and requesting them. Exempt children would be given something to carry to indicate their exemption.

What a lovely dystopian world. If you have a child who becomes severely distressed by having their face covered, you have to write to the school and make a formal request for them not to be caused severe distress. All for basically zero benefit because the kids they're interacting with in the corridor are the same ones as in the classrooms and outside of school.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

This just shows how out of touch with reality mask enthusiasts are. Schools don't have hand washing facilities in every classroom, or in the dinner hall, or the assembly hall. The only places hand washing could be done are the toilets, science labs and home economics kitchens.
What do you expect them to do, plumb in hand washing facilities in every classroom and corridor.

Boris just needs to get a grip now, tell Khan and the union officials to do one and categorically state that face masks are not to be made mandatory in schools.

There should be hand sanitising facilities in each classroom - or at least in every classroom in the schools that my LA controls.