UK face coverings discussion

[Huntergreed]

If the media actually challenged Sturgeon’s moves rather than reporting them factually and correct, we wouldn’t be in this position. Why are questions not being asked about what has changed in the 3 weeks since Scottish schools went back?

Because hte media seem to be 'pro-lockdown' and will support an increase in restrictions (more restrictions = more clicks = more money)

 

[yorkie]

Confirmed this morning, masks will be mandatory from next Monday in school corridors and communal areas in Scotland, as well as onboard school transport, in line with updated WHO advice (notable how they don’t follow the advice on physical distancing, where they double the distance, and on masks mitigating the need for distancing)



I don’t think this is good, but at least it isn’t in classrooms.

Is this now very likely to happen in England?

(Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53900825)

Disgraceful. It had better not happen in England.

Questions I have are:

Education Secretary John Swinney said the new rules would apply to all pupils aged over 12.

Does this mean 12 and over? What happens in the Scottish equivalent of Year 7 where some students will already be 12 before their first day, but the youngest may not turn 12 until school has broken up for Summer. Are staff supposed to know students birthdays? Or will they not apply the rule until Year 8?

Mr Swinney said individual exemptions could be granted for health reasons, but the guidance would be "obligatory" for all secondary, special and grant-aided schools.

How will this work? Can students state they have a health reason or is a letter from parents required? If staff are supposed to enforce this, would they have to consult a list of exempt students and carry that list with them in corridors?

And students who rely on lipreading etc can ask for any staff/students communicating with them to remove face coverings, right?

 

[Andyh82]

It also seems a bit of a coincidence that they’ve announced it now, a week before schools go back in England

It wouldn’t be as a way to complicate England’s school return for political reasons, with Scotland’s being safely back already of course would it?

 

[joncombe]

Is this now very likely to happen in England?

(Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53900825)

So it starts in England. Sadiq Kkan is said to be consulting on making masks mandatory in schools in London. See here [BBC]. Didn't take him long

To quote

London Mayor Sadiq Khan is understood to be close to backing face coverings in schools, at times when teenagers can’t socially distance.

He doesn’t believe they will be required in classrooms – but could be necessary in communal spaces and corridors, as is the case in Scotland.

The mayor has asked staff at City Hall to consult with officials in Edinburgh.

 

[yorkie]

So it starts in England. Sadiq Kkan is said to be consulting on making masks mandatory in schools in London.

To quote

Any respect I previously had for him has rapidly evaporated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As is predictable the main headine on the BBC News at One is “Pressure on Westminster as Scotland make face coverings in school mandatory”

So the rhetoric is already that if Scotland do something, they are right, and England are now wrong

Let's be fair, they do seem to be handling this whole thing rather a lot better than England, even if I don't agree with all the measures they propose. They have credibility, Boris has none, and Matt Hancock has a bit. In England I think the only people that truly have credibility are Chris Whitty and his sidekicks.

 

[Smidster]

You folks will be pleased to know that Johnson has said he will keep under review the guidance on masks in schools in England and there is also going to be a review in Wales.

Whatever we do the absolute priority must be to get kids back in school so while I wouldn't want them in the classroom where you have mixing of kids from different groups at short distance it doesn't feel too awful.

Over last couple of weeks I have had to wear one for a prolonged period and to be honest it hasn't been that bad....I am not sure it is doing an awful lot of good but equally was't awful. I know there are some who have genuine hardship and I encourage people to use the exemptions where available and appropriate but in other cases we just need to get on with it.

 

[Scotrail12]

Are staff supposed to know students birthdays?

They do, a student's DOB appears on the school database.

 

[yorkie]

They do, a student's DOB appears on the school database.

That's not my question, though. You aren't seriously saying that if you see a student without a face covering in the corridor, you should:

• consult the school database to determine their DOB; and/or
• consult a list of students who are exempt

....are you?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not my question, though. You aren't seriously saying that if you see a student without a face covering in the corridor, you should:

• consult the school database to determine their DOB; and/or
• consult a list of students who are exempt

The most likely way would be that the parent has to write a letter to the school indicating exempt status, and that as an outcome of that the student would be issued something to demonstrate that exemption, e.g. the sunflower lanyard. Schools are much more controlled environments than outside and this sort of process is not hard.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Just read on the local rag's site that in addition to face coverings, the teaching unions are now calling for distancing in schools as well.

Teaching unions have pressed for distancing in secondary schools as pupils were told they will have to wear face masks from next week.

Union leaders insisted that physical distancing in high schools remained the most effective way of preventing transmission of Covid-19.

I guess that's because they got their way with the face coverings and hoping for the same with distancing.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'm sure the government rules have referenced to travelling on public transport, and "while in enclosed public transport hubs"

I take this to mean that I am allowed to be unmasked on unenclosed sections of platform. For example, at Leeds, I would be allowed to stand at the far eastern ends of the through platforms, outside the trainshed, without wearing a mask.

Am I correct? The announcements and signs seem to suggest otherwise, but I can't see how the government rules could be interpereted any other way.

 

[NorthOxonian]

The most likely way would be that the parent has to write a letter to the school indicating exempt status, and that as an outcome of that the student would be issued something to demonstrate that exemption, e.g. the sunflower lanyard. Schools are much more controlled environments than outside and this sort of process is not hard.

Of course, I expect any kid issued with a sunflower lanyard would get mercilessly bullied - so you'd want to find something more discreet than that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course, I expect any kid issued with a sunflower lanyard would get mercilessly bullied - so you'd want to find something more discreet than that.

If a lanyard will get them bullied, so will not wearing a mask. But if not, they could have something in their pocket to show a teacher on request.

 

[Andyh82]

Let's be fair, they do seem to be handling this whole thing rather a lot better than England

I do wonder though if thats because we don't hear any noise either side with scottish decisions

Sturgeon announces a change, it gets reported on the news in brief and thats it. There is no 'how will it be policed?' 'why now?' 'what about jobs?' no reporters standing 1 foot outside of Aberdeen saying how come they are in lockdown, and those over there aren't, no 'pressure on the government' to change the guidance starting 1 day after it was brought in. Those of us in England would be lead to think there is 100% compliance and agreement with every decision made.

When Boris does the same, there is noise all around it, before it, after it, for it, against it, always a union or an expert rolled out at odds with whatever change has been made, the media flip flopping demanding the change before it is made, and then questioning it the day after it is made, complaints about a change happening too slowly, then complaining about a change happening too quickly, silly questions suggesting everyone is confused about everything.

 

[py_megapixel]

Of course, I expect any kid issued with a sunflower lanyard would get mercilessly bullied - so you'd want to find something more discreet than that.

How about just trusting parents and children to make the decision for themselves.

The sunflower lanyard is a great idea on the surface, but it doesn't really address the problem of people unfairly treating those with hidden disabilities. It just makes a hidden disability visible. I am mildly worried about a culture of "I have injured my leg, would you mind helping me carry this bag?" - "Do you have a lanyard?" - "No" - "Well I can't help you then"

If a lanyard will get them bullied, so will not wearing a mask.

I doubt it. Any kind of rule-breaking, even with permission, tends to score points with the kind of people who bully others based on characteristics they can't control.

 

[joncombe]

When Boris does the same, there is noise all around it, before it, after it, for it, against it, always a union or an expert rolled out at odds with whatever change has been made, the media flip flopping demanding the change before it is made, and then questioning it the day after it is made, complaints about a change happening too slowly, then complaining about a change happening too quickly, silly questions suggesting everyone is confused about everything.

You forgot And Keir Starmer demanding "clarity"

 

[trebor79]

Poor advice from a professor of public health here:

High school pupils in Scotland to wear face coverings from 31 August

Students will be asked to use masks in corridors, school buses and communal areas where physical distancing is difficult.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Not touching the surface - taking it off around the ears. I would recommend young people might carry a little bag in their pocket, stick the face covering in there and when they're taking it off and when they're putting it back on, making sure they don't touch the front of it," she said

Keeping a dirty mask in a placcy bag is just going to let mucus, spittle and any germs to soak into the whole thing, and all over the inside of the bag.
Impossible not to get the stuff on your hands.

I grow more convinced by the day that these "face coverings" are disgustingly unhygienic.
I'd be writing an exemption letter for my child.

 

[Mag_seven]

You forgot And Keir Starmer demanding "clarity"

The government should just state that face cover wearing won't be mandatory in English schools - you can't get more clear than that. It really is about time Boris started to use that 80 seat majority and start governing rather than pandering to the SNP and teachers unions.

 

[bramling]

The government should just state that face cover wearing won't be mandatory in English schools - you can't get more clear than that. It really is about time Boris started to use that 80 seat majority and start governing rather than pandering to the SNP and teachers unions.

Trouble is we had something similar over masks in shops - Gove says one thing, and within hours they come out with something completely contradictory. There’s been so much flapping in the wind that no one really knows what to take seriously now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about just trusting parents and children to make the decision for themselves.

Because masks protect others, not the individual. If they were for personal protection I would advocate this approach but they're not.

 

[Journeyman]

Because masks protect others, not the individual. If they were for personal protection I would advocate this approach but they're not.

There's no conclusive proof they do anything, especially because most people only do the bare minimum to comply with the law, and the law is stupid.

This is Sturgeon attempting to keep the more militant wing of the teaching profession on-side. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[adc82140]

I'm liking this particular MP:

Coronavirus: Wales announces review into face masks in schools - hours after Scotland takes action

The developments heap further pressure on Boris Johnson to change the guidance on face coverings in English schools.

news.sky.com

In a sign of some of the pressure Mr Johnson might be under not to review the existing guidance, Conservative MP Marcus Fysh - the chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Education - tweeted: "Masks should be banned in schools.

"The country should be getting back to normal not pandering to this scientifically illiterate guff."

 

[kez19]

If the media actually challenged Sturgeon’s moves rather than reporting them factually and entirely correct, we wouldn’t be in this position. Why are questions not being asked about what has changed in the 3 weeks since Scottish schools went back?

That’s because the media rarely challenge her...

It must be a media love in with Chief Mammy...

 

[duncanp]

So it starts in England. Sadiq Kkan is said to be consulting on making masks mandatory in schools in London. See here [BBC]. Didn't take him long

To quote

London Mayor Sadiq Khan is understood to be close to backing face coverings in schools, at times when teenagers can’t socially distance.

He doesn’t believe they will be required in classrooms – but could be necessary in communal spaces and corridors, as is the case in Scotland.

The mayor has asked staff at City Hall to consult with officials in Edinburgh.

Sadiq Khan is not responsible for schools in London, the individual boroughs are.

So he has not power whatsoever to make masks mandatory in schools, and should mind his own damn business.

This is just pointless posturing by one of the most useless and ineffective leaders London has ever seen.

The only reason he is consulting with officials in Scotland is to conspire with Nicola Sturgeon to try and make life as awkward as possible for Boris Johnson, for political reasons.

Mr Khan should stick to doing the job he was elected to do, starting with trying to sort out the mess that is Transport for London.

 

[Journeyman]

That’s because the media rarely challenge her...

It must be a media love in with Chief Mammy...

This is what really annoys me - even when she makes the same mistakes as Johnson, somehow she gets away with it and remains incredibly popular.

Just what, exactly, do the SNP need to do to stop people voting for them?

 

[adc82140]

Just what, exactly, do the SNP need to do to stop people voting for them?

What it needs is a second party with nationalist leanings, like in Northern Ireland, where you have Sinn Fein and the more moderate SDLP.

 

[kez19]

This is what really annoys me - even when she makes the same mistakes as Johnson, somehow she gets away with it and remains incredibly popular.

Just what, exactly, do the SNP need to do to stop people voting for them?

I have been wondering that since this started, BBC/STV fall over her supposedly so hence no challenge or if challenged she puts them on mute... Surprised her briefings are on 4 BBC channels... BBC 1 (Scotland), BBC 2, BBC Scotland and BBC News total overload and no need for it (I get what I said possibly should be media thread) but it’s a joke now...

She makes mistakes but none of her MSPs resign they are kept in yet be other parties they be calling for sackings but this is Scotland and all that

What it needs is a second party with nationalist leanings, like in Northern Ireland, where you have Sinn Fein and the more moderate SDLP.

Yet the opposition parties in Scotland do nothing other than bend over...

It's probably just a wind-up article, but it's a very dangerous suggestion. Gloves might be towards the top of the list of things that make you feel more hygienic and protected, but the virus survives much longer on artificial surfaces such as the plastic material of gloves, than it does on hands. So this suggestion would help the virus spread, not hinder it.

There is no reason whatsoever you should be wearing gloves in normal life. Wash your hands properly and sufficiently frequently and that is all you need to do to ensure they're clean.

In a sense, I wouldn't be surprised if the government did eventually go through with this, because it seems totally in line with their direction of travel. But it would be further proof (as if any more were needed) that they are now simply implementing measures that please the coronaphobes, and are totally disregarding the science.

Next can we buy an air bubble to walk round with?

 

[Journeyman]

I have been wondering that since this started, BBC/STV fall over her supposedly so hence no challenge or if challenged she puts them on mute... Surprised her briefings are on 4 BBC channels... BBC 1 (Scotland), BBC 2, BBC Scotland and BBC News total overload and no need for it (I get what I said possibly should be media thread) but it’s a joke now...

She makes mistakes but none of her MSPs resign they are kept in yet be other parties they be calling for sackings but this is Scotland and all that



Yet the opposition parties in Scotland do nothing other than bend over...

I was extremely annoyed with the Greens backing the Education Secretary. I'm naturally quite Green in my political leanings, but until they stop uncritically propping up the SNP, they can forget me voting for them.

 

[kez19]

I was extremely annoyed with the Greens backing the Education Secretary. I'm naturally quite Green in my political leanings, but until they stop uncritically propping up the SNP, they can forget me voting for them.

They are just SNP backup really, wouldn’t trust them either (but neither any parties in general), it’s the irony that one of them called for his head but decided to keep him... that tells you something

The Scottish Greens may as well be called The SNP “Green” Branch...