Social distancing rules on public transport?

[yorkie]

...But secondly why seating children in the aisle seat was thought to be safer. In theory you could now have a teenager sat in the aisle position, or an unmasked under 11 with stray arms and legs in to the aisle and no doubt an occasional dart for freedom with parent quickly running and shouting after them. Also appeared odd how the approach was so much different on services provided by the same TOC on the same afternoon....

There is no logic to any of this whatsoever. It's just XC wanting to be seen to be doing something. Having recently come back from Switzerlan, I despair at what I see on XC. But none of this is any rule (other than XC making things up themselves). If it was up to me, I'd march XC and RMT bosses up to Switzerland to see how to properly run a railway.

 

[trebor79]

I'd have refused to change seats. What can the guard do about it? Is there some bylaw that says children have to sit in aisle seats? If not then the guard can surely only ask nicely and if you reply "no thanks we're happy as we are" then that's the end of the matter.

 

[yorkie]

I'd have refused to change seats. What can the guard do about it? Is there some bylaw that says children have to sit in aisle seats? If not then the guard can surely only ask nicely and if you reply "no thanks we're happy as we are" then that's the end of the matter.

Problem is, they could call the BTP on the basis you are refusing to comply with instructions. If the BTP ask you to move, you'd have to. They could even ask you to leave the train.

While most Guards would never get themselves into such a position, there are one or two on XC who would; indeed this happened yesterday according to reports.

BTP may see sense and tell the Guard to stop wasting their time, but they may side with the Guard. If they do, and you are told to leave the train, or even the station, you'd not really have any choice but to comply.

 

[trebor79]

Problem is, they could call the BTP on the basis you are refusing to comply with instructions. If the BTP ask you to move, you'd have to. They could even ask you to leave the train.

While most Guards would never get themselves into such a position, there are one or two on XC who would; indeed this happened yesterday according to reports.

BTP may see sense and tell the Guard to stop wasting their time, but they may side with the Guard. If they do, and you are told to leave the train, or even the station, you'd not really have any choice but to comply.

I guess it could come to that. Dependant upon the urgency of getting to my destination in time I'd be prepared to take that risk. And if I did get turfed off then I guess it's the kind of story that the rags are interested in, so might actually help stop such nonsense going forward.
But would a call like that really get a response from the BTP, other than laughter or being told to go forth an multiply?
"Yes, I've asked him to swap seats with his 6 year old son... No, he won't move, says his son likes looking out of the window and that he's happy with the aisle seat. No, no he isn't being aggressive, just refuses to swap seats... Why? Well, just because I want him to. Can you come right away please?"
Really?

 

[Richard Scott]

There is no logic to any of this whatsoever. It's just XC wanting to be seen to be doing something. Having recently come back from Switzerlan, I despair at what I see on XC. But none of this is any rule (other than XC making things up themselves). If it was up to me, I'd march XC and RMT bosses up to Switzerland to see how to properly run a railway.

There do seem to be ridiculous rules over here. The chances of anyone catching this virus on a train is remote to say the least. Let's just allow people to sit where they want otherwise if train is busy loads of people end up standing by the doors, surely more chance of contracting virus there? As every day goes on I despair more and more about the stupid 'precautions' we take against something that seems to be proving no worse than flu.

 

[yorkie]

I guess it could come to that. Dependant upon the urgency of getting to my destination in time I'd be prepared to take that risk. And if I did get turfed off then I guess it's the kind of story that the rags are interested in, so might actually help stop such nonsense going forward.
But would a call like that really get a response from the BTP, other than laughter or being told to go forth an multiply?
"Yes, I've asked him to swap seats with his 6 year old son... No, he won't move, says his son likes looking out of the window and that he's happy with the aisle seat. No, no he isn't being aggressive, just refuses to swap seats... Why? Well, just because I want him to. Can you come right away please?"
Really?

Potentially; for example I've known BTP remove a valid fare paying passenger from a Virgin (now Avanti) train because the Guard refused to accept that Anytime tickets are valid in 1st class at weekends; some BTP officers will take the view that if the staff want someone removed from the train, then they will do so, no questions asked.

The likes of me and you may face disciplinary action if we acted this way towards customers, but you have to understand we are talking about the rail industry.

 

[bramling]

I guess it could come to that. Dependant upon the urgency of getting to my destination in time I'd be prepared to take that risk. And if I did get turfed off then I guess it's the kind of story that the rags are interested in, so might actually help stop such nonsense going forward.
But would a call like that really get a response from the BTP, other than laughter or being told to go forth an multiply?
"Yes, I've asked him to swap seats with his 6 year old son... No, he won't move, says his son likes looking out of the window and that he's happy with the aisle seat. No, no he isn't being aggressive, just refuses to swap seats... Why? Well, just because I want him to. Can you come right away please?"
Really?

If the guard decides “the train is going nowhere until BTP arrive” then yes they’d have to attend.

*If* it’s a company policy, especially one that’s allegedly safety-related, then the guard wouldn’t be risking repercussions.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Here in Jersey the local bus operator has announced full capacity will apply from September. Currently they are allowed to reach maximum seated capacity so I presume we are back to the stated capacity on that builder's plate thing at the front that allows a number of standees.

Some buses in London are now relaxing the rules and in fact moving to 101% capacity

 

[birchesgreen]

Removing people from a train is ridiculous, it's likely to just make the next service as much if not more crowded!

 

[yorkie]

Removing people from a train is ridiculous, it's likely to just make the next service as much if not more crowded!

You are being logical but these people are not interested in common sense or pragmaticism.

 

[Reliablebeam]

There is a right social distancing zealot guard on a GWR service this morning. Constant mask announcements and actually splitting people up to keep the aisle seats free. Not exactly an inducement to use the train and impractical as services get busier...

 

[Scott W]

Not exactly an inducement to use the train and impractical as services get busier...

They were the two points I heard from the grumbles from the passengers after the Train Manager headed to the next carriage. From our families perspective, the inconsistency was the most frustrating, I have just done some crude maths, and in the last six weeks we have traveled on circa 40 trains in the same seating format, including with XC, GWR, TFW, and Northern and not once had any issues. I have also solo traveled for business on say another 10 trains with XC and EMR in that time and not witnessed anything like this.

We have booked some time away next week which involves traveling with EMR, Northern, Avanti, XC and ScotRail at various points, it's fair to say had we not booked ahead we may well have changed our plans next week after the XC incident.

 

[Reliablebeam]

They were the two points I heard from the grumbles from the passengers after the Train Manager headed to the next carriage. From our families perspective, the inconsistency was the most frustrating, I have just done some crude maths, and in the last six weeks we have traveled on circa 40 trains in the same seating format, including with XC, GWR, TFW, and Northern and not once had any issues. I have also solo traveled for business on say another 10 trains with XC and EMR in that time and not witnessed anything like this.

We have booked some time away next week which involves traveling with EMR, Northern, Avanti, XC and ScotRail at various points, it's fair to say had we not booked ahead we may well have changed our plans next week after the XC incident.

Interesting experiences and good luck next week!

This is the first time I've seen this on GWR so it may be a one off but the practical result of her actions was people shouting to their mates and kneeling/standing on seats to turn around. Great!

The laugh of course is one could get the stoppers or TFL services and this point is moot..

 

[squizzler]

Open access operators will be rubbing their hands in glee, as they presumably will be making much more effort to welcome travellers onboard. Whilst the current measures will pass, perhaps we will see a rash of new open access proposals come forward as transport firms come to realise the disadvantages of having to adhere to the official concessions/franchises?

 

[Mag_seven]

There is a right social distancing zealot guard on a GWR service this morning. Constant mask announcements and actually splitting people up to keep the aisle seats free. Not exactly an inducement to use the train and impractical as services get busier...

The fact that she was able to split them up shows that the train was quiet so social distancing was possible, although I disagree that they should have been split up (I have seen plenty of people sitting in aisle seats on GWR). As trains get busier however I can see conflicts between passengers and staff arising if TOCs continue to try and enforce social distancing which will only lead to adverse publicity for the rail industry.

 

[Belperpete]

In response to a previous poster, TfW still have the "do not use" seat covers out in force. And still on almost every seat (every airline seat, and 3 out of 4 table seats, not to be used), although some do appear to have gone missing. And increasing use of security guards patrolling the trains after each stop, but only to monitor face mask wearing - they don't seem to be bothered what seat you are sat in. Although they might be reporting how busy the train is to the guard, who (in addition to both TfW's and the Welsh government's recorded covid announcements in both welsh and english) makes an "important safety announcement" to let us know if there are too many people on-board for social distancing, followed by a string of announcements about not using the aisle seats even if you are a family travelling together, we will now be calling at all request stops as the train is too full for people to safely walk through to ask for them, etc etc. All repeated after every stop.

Compared to the Avanti service, where the guard very politely thanked us all for wearing our face masks to help protect each other, and for not sitting in the aisle seats, rather than officiously instructing us as TfW seems to do.

 

[Scott W]

In response to a previous poster, TfW still have the "do not use" seat covers out in force. And still on almost every seat (every airline seat, and 3 out of 4 table seats, not to be used), although some do appear to have gone missing. And increasing use of security guards patrolling the trains after each stop, but only to monitor face mask wearing - they don't seem to be bothered what seat you are sat in. Although they might be reporting how busy the train is to the guard, who (in addition to both TfW's and the Welsh government's recorded covid announcements in both welsh and english) makes an "important safety announcement" to let us know if there are too many people on-board for social distancing, followed by a string of announcements about not using the aisle seats even if you are a family travelling together, we will now be calling at all request stops as the train is too full for people to safely walk through to ask for them, etc etc. All repeated after every stop.

Compared to the Avanti service, where the guard very politely thanked us all for wearing our face masks to help protect each other, and for not sitting in the aisle seats, rather than officiously instructing us as TfW seems to do.

Interesting how there appears to be varying application and interpretation of the guidance. Recognise the out of use seat covers, or remnants of them in some cases on TfW, but not the security guards on trains or repeated announcements on the trains themselves. It was however very noticeable the amount of additional personell on the platforms at the Cardiff stations, although they generally appeared to be there to help and offered advice along the lines of 'dont forget to put your face covering on before you board' and 'use these stairs please'.

 

[Bantamzen]

Thankfully Northern's 333 running up and down the Aire & Wharfe valleys are blissfully free of covid-phobic PA messages. Travelling up to Ilkley yesterday, save the face coverings of course, was a pleasant experience. Very few seats "out of use", minimal signage, no people screeching at each other, even got a friendly "alreet" from one of the guards. But please guys, keep this to yourselves. We don't want the Joy Police finding out and demanding that we all treat people as infection vectors...

 

[BJames]

I'm finding noise cancelling headphones do the trick against these announcements. Especially when I've been in a carriage with just one other person for a journey of over 90 minutes, I'm not too concerned about social distancing.

Some of these stories of guards above are incredibly frustrating. I can imagine loosing my cool at some of them when they're trying to impose illogical nonsense that isn't even company policy.

 

[island]

There is no logic to any of this whatsoever. It's just XC wanting to be seen to be doing something. Having recently come back from Switzerlan, I despair at what I see on XC. But none of this is any rule (other than XC making things up themselves). If it was up to me, I'd march XC and RMT bosses up to Switzerland to see how to properly run a railway.

Then they’d have to self-isolate for 14 days upon returning to the UK

 

[Huntergreed]

Then they’d have to self-isolate for 14 days upon returning to the UK

Who says that’s a bad thing?

 

[LowLevel]

Our trains this weekend have been genuinely pretty full (as in... full - not 30% full) on many routes and the staff are about ready to mutiny over the wars between people with masks/without masks/dragging us into their quarrels. Largely full of people crowding in to go out on the piss and then return later and smash the place up. Our guards have to work from within the train and we are far from happy about being in such close proximity to these people acting like animals (on both sides of the argument).

 

[Belperpete]

Physical distancing does not need to be performed on school-only services. Students/school kids travelling on public services should physically distance where possible, but if they're comfortable sitting next to each other I've got no issue with it (if anything it keeps an row free for someone else).

I presume this is why some London bus routes are now going to have certain buses designated as for school children only, with special red signs.

 

[PHILIPE]

Is there any evidence that large spikes have originated from public transport ?

 

[squizzler]

The surprising thing about XC apparently getting hung up is that their fleet is on the whole modern and would - presumably - have more effective mechanical ventilation the older trains, planes and busses. Train designers are competent engineers who know their products will be often used in excess of seated capacity and must surely design appropriate ventilation.

Unless of course the problem that the voyagers used to have with carry-over of lavatorial smells indicates their ventilation is uniquely flawed and they are reducing capacity because of this.

 

[BJames]

I presume this is why some London bus routes are now going to have certain buses designated as for school children only, with special red signs.

Correct. This was actually quite a good idea to get around the situation as many school kids really do still need public transport. Some of these are just going to be every other bus, others will be extra buses (on low frequency routes). Full details for anyone else interested: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/buses/bus-changes?intcmp=47904

 

[DannyMich2018]

On EMR Interciy services there is a long list of annoucements regarding social distancing, masks etc. XC much less so (at least on Bham-Leicester services). Loadings on the London route seem to be pretty good esp the London to Nottingham stopping service. Why do they wish people to not use the aisle seats? Everyone apart from children should be masked so walking along train you're very briefly passing people for a few seconds so near no risk. Only risk if you spend more than 15 mins less than 2 metres from a person.

 

[trainophile]

On EMR Interciy services there is a long list of annoucements regarding social distancing, masks etc. XC much less so (at least on Bham-Leicester services). Loadings on the London route seem to be pretty good esp the London to Nottingham stopping service. Why do they wish people to not use the aisle seats? Everyone apart from children should be masked so walking along train you're very briefly passing people for a few seconds so near no risk. Only risk if you spend more than 15 mins less than 2 metres from a person.

I suppose if two adults use adjacent aisle seats the gap between them is well below 1 metre. You can hardly permit one person to sit in the aisle seat then tell someone else that they can't.

 

[trebor79]

On EMR Interciy services there is a long list of annoucements regarding social distancing, masks etc. XC much less so (at least on Bham-Leicester services). Loadings on the London route seem to be pretty good esp the London to Nottingham stopping service. Why do they wish people to not use the aisle seats? Everyone apart from children should be masked so walking along train you're very briefly passing people for a few seconds so near no risk. Only risk if you spend more than 15 mins less than 2 metres from a person.

Forget about the masks, because they make no difference to transmission in the real world.
It's still a nonsense that they are trying to prevent people from using aisle (or any) seats.

 

[Reliablebeam]

The return journey was excellent - the announcement by the guard contained lots of useful information, such as low occupancy carriages, and said that you should try and leave aisle seats free *if possible*, not a requirement. No splitting people up or other ructions, and a reminder from the guard that not everyone can wear a mask!!

There is a right social distancing zealot guard on a GWR service this morning. Constant mask announcements and actually splitting people up to keep the aisle seats free. Not exactly an inducement to use the train and impractical as services get busier...