Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[scosutsut]

You forget the questions about reinstating certain deroofed/fire damaged buses!

Long live 20942!!!1

 

[Aaronb2601]

I can almost guarantee that the answer will be no, but is there still any buses in service that have the tartan seats? I’ve heard somewhere that one of the buses still have the tartan fabric around the camera screen at the front of the bus, not sure if that’s accurate though.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I can almost guarantee that the answer will be no, but is there still any buses in service that have the tartan seats? I’ve heard somewhere that one of the buses still have the tartan fabric around the camera screen at the front of the bus, not sure if that’s accurate though.

I don't think any still have those seats, but I do recall seeing tartan around the upstairs CCTV screen on a bus relatively recently (within the last two months?). I couldn't tell you which vehicle it would have been on though, probably a Gemini 1.

 

[Aaronb2601]

I don't think any still have those seats, but I do recall seeing tartan around the upstairs CCTV screen on a bus relatively recently (within the last two months?). I couldn't tell you which vehicle it would have been on though, probably a Gemini 1.

Are the Gemini 1’s the B7TL’s?

 

[OmniCity999]

Are the Gemini 1’s the B7TL’s?

Gemini - Volvo B7TL (There are some early B9TL's which are Gemini's too.)
Gemini 2 - Volvo B9TL & B5LH (Lothian Country)
Gemini 3 - Volvo B5TL/B5LH

Officially the 'Gemini 1' doesnt exist, its just known as a Gemini.

Essentially, all B7TL's are Gemini's but not all Gemini 2's are B9TL's! In the Lothian fleet anyway - the bus industry is very varied!

 

[Aaronb2601]

How are buses allocated for that days Service? For example 339 on the service 48, is it random? Or is there a list wrote up for which buses will do what service that day?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Gemini - Volvo B7TL (There are some early B9TL's which are Gemini's too.)
Gemini 2 - Volvo B9TL & B5LH (Lothian Country)
Gemini 3 - Volvo B5TL/B5LH

Officially the 'Gemini 1' doesnt exist, its just known as a Gemini.

Essentially, all B7TL's are Gemini's but not all Gemini 2's are B9TL's! In the Lothian fleet anyway - the bus industry is very varied!

I get what you're saying about "officially", but surely the name "Gemini" refers to the bus/body type? And the 1/2/3 is just like the revision number? I.e. if you were to talk about "a Gemini" you could be referring to any or all of the Gemini 1, 2 or 3, without explicitly saying which. If I'm talking about them (the original Gemini) I always specify "Gemini 1" so people know I'm not referring to the 2 or 3. A bit like, you could mention a "Honda Jazz" and be referring to any Jazz, or you could specify "Jazz Mk 1", or Mk 2 or Mk 3, etc.

When you say "there are some early B9TL's which are Gemini's too", are you referring to all of 826-925? When you say "there are some", it makes it sound like you are saying there are only one or two of them!

 

[OmniCity999]

I get what you're saying about "officially", but surely the name "Gemini" refers to the bus/body type? And the 1/2/3 is just like the revision number? I.e. if you were to talk about "a Gemini" you could be referring to any or all of the Gemini 1, 2 or 3, without explicitly saying which. If I'm talking about them (the original Gemini) I always specify "Gemini 1" so people know I'm not referring to the 2 or 3. A bit like, you could mention a "Honda Jazz" and be referring to any Jazz, or you could specify "Jazz Mk 1", or Mk 2 or Mk 3, etc.

Oh no i'm totally with you. Although with Wright its Gemini, Gemini 2 and Gemini 3. They are referred to as such at Lothian too, at least in my department.

When you say "there are some early B9TL's which are Gemini's too", are you referring to all of 826-925? When you say "there are some", it makes it sound like you are saying there are only one or two of them!

There are some people in Scotland, but there are many more around the world, same with the fleet! i was just being lazy

How are buses allocated for that days Service? For example 339 on the service 48, is it random? Or is there a list wrote up for which buses will do what service that day?

We covered this slightly, i think yesterday? Im not really the best person to go into detail. Generally branded ones go on branded routes and are parked up at night for the next day as such (generally). it is planned, but its not as important as you may think. There are a lot of attributes. Somebody, maybe a driver might know. @CN04NRJ ? you might have a little bit of insight into this?

@Aaronb2601 You may be interested in a couple of tracking websites. These offer real time tracking and the second offers past tracking.

www.finlaysmith.co.uk offers real time visual tracking

www.lvf.io offers real time list tracking and past tracking. It is a London website but you can change the mode to Lothian by typing "mode LRT" i think.

 

[Aaronb2601]

Oh no i'm totally with you. Although with Wright its Gemini, Gemini 2 and Gemini 3. They are referred to as such at Lothian too, at least in my department.



There are some people in Scotland, but there are many more around the world, same with the fleet! i was just being lazy



We covered this slightly, i think yesterday? Im not really the best person to go into detail. Generally branded ones go on branded routes and are parked up at night for the next day as such (generally). it is planned, but its not as important as you may think. There are a lot of attributes. Somebody, maybe a driver might know. @CN04NRJ ? you might have a little bit of insight into this?

@Aaronb2601 You may be interested in a couple of tracking websites. These offer real time tracking and the second offers past tracking.

www.finlaysmith.co.uk offers real time visual tracking

www.lvf.io offers real time list tracking and past tracking. It is a London website but you can change the mode to Lothian by typing "mode LRT" i think.

Thank you for suggesting they sites to me. I’m really glad there is sites like that rather than having to rely on bustimes.org as I am not sure how accurate that site is.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I’m really glad there is sites like that rather than having to rely on bustimes.org as I am not sure how accurate that site is.

The data all comes from the same place AFAIK - timetables from the Traveline National Dataset and location info from the TfE open data portal. Different sites just use it in different ways

 

[CN04NRJ]

This is really random but I’m not a driver so I don’t know, when someone pushes the stop button does the stopping light only turn off after the doors open or is there a button the driver presses to turn it off?

As far as I know only the mk2 7900s (11-50) have a cancel stop light button on the dash, the rest of the fleet you have to open the doors fully for the lights to go off.

We covered this slightly, i think yesterday? Im not really the best person to go into detail. Generally branded ones go on branded routes and are parked up at night for the next day as such (generally). it is planned, but its not as important as you may think. There are a lot of attributes. Somebody, maybe a driver might know. @CN04NRJ ? you might have a little bit of insight into this?

You'd probably have a better idea of why certain buses are allocated to certain routes - e.g I was a bit baffled the other week when the allocation for the 2s changed from 1000-1050 to 872-927 on a Thursday and has stayed that way since.

Obviously I've only been here 9 months but with 11 years in the industry - at Longstone they tend to park the same type of bus on the same row (e.g inside rows 19-21 might be London B9TLs and the single decks are always on 1-5, with the bus on the front of bay 2 supposed to be the first one out). It can be quite tight getting out by there so the new ones will certainly be 'interesting'.

They were just installing an LED monitor today (same as what's used at Central) to list the morning allocations - previously it was all manually done on pen and paper but I try to avoid early shifts like the plague so I'm usually the one bringing them back in

So you'd collect the running board, go to the board with a list of board numbers/services/vehicles in the order of the time they're due to leave in the following format (won't share any pictures for obvious reasons)

2/582 0512 872-927 (1024 19)
30/616 0514 11-50 (34 2)
2/583 0517 827-927 (901 34)

Meaning the second 2 and 16th 30 out the garage, time due to leave, allocated type, actual bus, bus location. A drivers shift will start 10 minutes before bus is due to leave, but I believe the decker drivers get 15.

I find they try to keep the 'correct' buses on the 'correct' routes as much as possible but if buses are defective then it throws the order out a bit - like a few weeks ago a 7900 allocated to the 36 ended up on the 44 as the decker became defective just before leaving and the 7900 was checked and ready to go. From personal experience the later in the morning the less likely you'll get the 'correct' type of bus - hence B5LHs sometimes being on the last two number 2s out (587/588) if they've had a bad morning with defects or whatever. It's very organised and any issues are dealt with swiftly - minor defects (like a sidelight out) are fixed pretty quickly but if it's something they can't fix close to your run out time you'll usually get another bus. Hope this answers your questions but if there's anything I can answer feel free to ask.

In contrast during my 8 years at Cardiff Bus the morning run out was always chaotic - I was once allocated a Scania bendy that was over the pits with no engine (much to the fitters amusement) and spent over a hour after I was supposed to leave waiting for a bus when there were several parked out the back they'd forgotten about!

Lothian is a very slick operation, and that's not personal bias talking

 

[Aaronb2601]

I was thinking earlier on, why aren’t the remaining B7RLE’s being used on the route 30 rather than the 7900’s? As they can hold more passengers especially as people are being encouraged to socially distance themselves from others, just popped into my head.

 

[OmniCity999]

I was thinking earlier on, why aren’t the remaining B7RLE’s being used on the route 30 rather than the 7900’s? As they can hold more passengers especially as people are being encouraged to socially distance themselves from others, just popped into my head.

The batteries in the 7900H's may deteriorate if left off the road.

There are many reasons, though.

 

[Aaronb2601]

The batteries in the 7900H's may deteriorate if left off the road.

There are many reasons, though.

Couldn’t the 7900’s be kept primarily for the less busy routes like the 2, 36, 38 and maybe even the 12 now that it isn’t going all the way to seafield? I thought maybe they were trying to keep as many of the older veichles off the road for as long as they can to try and cut down on emissions which would explain why the B7RLE’s aren’t being used, just a thought.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Couldn’t the 7900’s be kept primarily for the less busy routes like the 2, 36, 38 and maybe even the 12 now that it isn’t going all the way to seafield? I thought maybe they were trying to keep as many of the older veichles off the road for as long as they can to try and cut down on emissions which would explain why the B7RLE’s aren’t being used, just a thought.

In my opinion the 7900's don't have enough capacity for the 2, the 2 gets really busy now.

 

[Aaronb2601]

In my opinion the 7900's don't have enough capacity for the 2, the 2 gets really busy now.

Ah okay, I haven’t been on the 2 for a while so I wouldn’t know.

 

[Lothiangem22]

The 7900’s will find use within the fleet even after the B8’s enter service.
I’d imagine once the B8’s enter service the 7900’s will again be split between the 3 city depots. There are a number of “single deck” routes operating with deckers just now though there will be a time when this luxury isn’t available, not to mention some of the deckers operating are 7 years older than the 7900 stock.

 

[Aaronb2601]

The 7900’s will find use within the fleet even after the B8’s enter service.
I’d imagine once the B8’s enter service the 7900’s will again be split between the 3 city depots. There are a number of “single deck” routes operating with deckers just now though there will be a time when this luxury isn’t available, not to mention some of the deckers operating are 7 years older than the 7900 stock.

Ah okay I get you. I just don’t see fully how the B7RLE’s aren’t by used by now?

 

[Lothiangem22]

Right now with the reduced timetables there is a surplus of deckers available to operate those primarily single deck routes. While the B7RLE’s have a slightly higher seated capacity than the 7900’s there are many advantages to operating the hybrids - cheaper running costs, newer and better company image to name a few. Also with the B8’s arriving the majority of B7rle’s are being sold... having them available immediately for potential buyers makes sense rather than having to rotate buses out the fleet as and when they sell

 

[CN04NRJ]

Apparently these are now with Stagecoach Dunfermline! So theoretically they could be working back into Edinburgh.

Photo borrowed from Facebook.

Couldn’t the 7900’s be kept primarily for the less busy routes like the 2, 36, 38 and maybe even the 12 now that it isn’t going all the way to seafield? I thought maybe they were trying to keep as many of the older veichles off the road for as long as they can to try and cut down on emissions which would explain why the B7RLE’s aren’t being used, just a thought.

The 2 definitely needs to be double deck for the time being if social distancing is a priority. The 38 could do with more capacity as well, the ones I did today were quite busy and not a long way off pre covid loadings on one journey.

The 7900s are also Euro 6 EEV and obviously newer so it's a better look for the company - also during the first week of Longstone reopening 11-32 had alot of battery related issues from being parked so as you can imagine those would have just got worse if left parked for longer.

 

[Aaronb2601]

Right now with the reduced timetables there is a surplus of deckers available to operate those primarily single deck routes. While the B7RLE’s have a slightly higher seated capacity than the 7900’s there are many advantages to operating the hybrids - cheaper running costs, newer and better company image to name a few. Also with the B8’s arriving the majority of B7rle’s are being sold... having them available immediately for potential buyers makes sense rather than having to rotate buses out the fleet as and when they sell

Aren’t the 07,57,58 and 60 reg B7RLE’s staying?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The Geminis are en-route to Moffat and Williamson I believe

 

[Aaronb2601]

The Geminis are en-route to Moffat and Williamson I believe

All of them?

 

[OmniCity999]

Aren’t the 07,57,58 and 60 reg B7RLE’s staying?

Yes! alot of the questions you are asking have been answered multiple times in this thread and others, if you're ever unsure, try a wee search of the website, it might bring something up

Also with the B8’s arriving the majority of B7rle’s are being sold...

Common misconception among enthusiasts - 30 B8RLE's are due. There are around 60-70 B7RLE's in the fleet, 30 doesn't replace 70. 30 replaces 30.

The 7900’s will find use within the fleet even after the B8’s enter service.
I’d imagine once the B8’s enter service the 7900’s will again be split between the 3 city depots. There are a number of “single deck” routes operating with deckers just now though there will be a time when this luxury isn’t available, not to mention some of the deckers operating are 7 years older than the 7900 stock.

Once we get back to normal service levels, vehicles that are out of service will come back to service. As stated before, one of the main issues why the B7RLE's are out of service and not the 7900H's is the 7900H's require batteries within their drivetrain. B7RLE's dont. Bateries not being used over time degrade. So their being used.

it might seem like im having a go, im really not. I just struggle communicating - so im sorry if i sound off with some of my responses.

All of them?

Just the four in the above image i believe.

 

[Aaronb2601]

Yes! alot of the questions you are asking have been answered multiple times in this thread and others, if you're ever unsure, try a wee search of the website, it might bring something up


Common misconception among enthusiasts - 30 B8RLE's are due. There are around 90 B7RLE's in the fleet, 30 doesn't replace 90. 30 replaces 30.


Once we get back to normal service levels, vehicles that are out of service will come back to service. As stated before, one of the main issues why the B7RLE's are out of service and not the 7900H's is the 7900H's require batteries within their drivetrain. B7RLE's dont. Bateries not being used over time degrade. So their being used.

it might seem like im having a go, im really not. I just struggle communicating - so im sorry if i sound off with some of my responses.


Just the four in the above image i believe.

Okay. Yes I know sorry I was just un clear on some things. Thanks for clarifying

 

[CN04NRJ]

The Geminis are en-route to Moffat and Williamson I believe

Ah! That would explain it - they didn't stay long with Stagecoach if that's the case.

 

[Stan Drews]

Ah! That would explain it - they didn't stay long with Stagecoach if that's the case.

They were only on loan to cover a short term tram replacement requirement.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There are a number of “single deck” routes operating with deckers just now though there will be a time when this luxury isn’t available[...]

What decker-operated routes have still to have a frequency uplift then? I thought they were all pretty much back to normal?

 

[CN04NRJ]

They were only on loan to cover a short term tram replacement requirement.

Two went to the somewhere in Midlands as well I believe, can't remember where now.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Two went to the somewhere in Midlands as well I believe, can't remember where now.

Northampton