Car on line at Stirling Station - 14th October 2020

[nlogax]

Evidently someone forgot that Motorail isn't a thing anymore.

 

[LRV3004]

I think the car driver misinterpreted the instruction "park between the lines"......

 

[matchmaker]

When something like this happens, which blocks a number of lines and could cause a serious accident if a train was to hit it, presumable there is a way for drivers and platform staff to communicate to the signaller 'set all signals near me to red urgently'?

In this case, the car will have been in full view of the signallers in Stirling Middle.

 

[Horizon22]

There's a planter very close as well - if there were a few more -and heavier - it might not have ended up on the track!

When something like this happens, which blocks a number of lines and could cause a serious accident if a train was to hit it, presumable there is a way for drivers and platform staff to communicate to the signaller 'set all signals near me to red urgently'?

Platform staff can call the signaller (normally a direct line in their office) starting with "This is an emergency call..."

 

[hexagon789]

Platform staff don’t have access to GSMR but most staffed stations will have an direct telephone line to the supervising signalbox / signalling centre other than that it’s using the internal railway telephone network.

Was more thinking of the driver, in the event he or she ended up approaching the car on the tracks or indeed was simply in a position to use the GSMR to advise control of the obstruction etc

 

[DimTim]

Must have been at speed to ‘land’ on 4 wheels. A slow roll would have seen bonnet into ballast - front wheel drive with weight of engine.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The BBC report has a helpful caption stating that "Cars are being diverted around the train at Stirling Station".

Did the initial story get changed from "Cars are being diverted around the train..." to "Trains are being diverted around the car..."

 

[swt_passenger]

Did the initial story get changed from "Cars are being diverted around the train..." to "Trains are being diverted around the car..."

Yes exactly that. Took them about an hour I think.

 

[Deepgreen]

My last use of Stirling station saw our car (and several others) on a train - my father used Motorail to get our family car, a Rover P4, up to the Highlands and back. Even back then (1985) the loader who drove it on had a little trouble with its 'heavy' feel!

I think the car driver misinterpreted the instruction "park between the lines"......

Pull up to the 1 car stopping mark.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Did the initial story get changed from "Cars are being diverted around the train..." to "Trains are being diverted around the car..."

That was why I added a screenshot rather than just a link to a page that was likely to be changed later.
Seemed likely that the oddness would be lost.

 

[marks87]

If it had been an electric Nissan car, the delays really would have been because of the wrong sort of Leaf on the line.

 

[matchmaker]

Apparently, there were two young ladies in the car. It has now been removed, but in doing this some copes on Platform 2 were damaged. The NR civils subcontractor is ready to replace these tonight.

It is rumoured that the cost of delays, etc, is up to £1m!

 

[hexagon789]

Apparently, there were two young ladies in the car. It has now been removed, but in doing this some copes on Platform 2 were damaged. The NR civils subcontractor is ready to replace these tonight.

It is rumoured that the cost of delays, etc, is up to £1m!

Ouch, quite a sum, but at least the car occupants came out broadly unscathed thankfully. Presumably the cause hasn't been fully ascertained yet though?

 

[Bald Rick]

It is rumoured that the cost of delays, etc, is up to £1m!

No chance!

 

[Speed43125]

So that's why action all went quiet round here earlier today!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

It is rumoured that the cost of delays, etc, is up to £1m!

How many delay minutes ?

 

[Egg Centric]

Would the car's insurer / MIB actually be liable for delay minutes? On the one hand you could argue some railway-related business (I have no idea who but assume Network Rail) would presumably be liable and ought to be able to recover their costs. On the other hand, you could equally argue that delay minutes are an accounting exercise and not really the car driver's problem - instead they should be liable for the cost of the inconvenience and damage they have caused rather than some approximation of same based upon a formula which I suspect doesn't really apply in the current national situation.

I have absolutely no idea by the way so would appreciate some informed input. Do remember this was in Stirling so Scots law applies!

 

[Non Multi]

This is what happens when you don't have a traffic barrier between the car park and the platform. Entirely avoidable.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Interesting thoughts on cover for damage and consequential loss.
Thankfully this time this seems to be not too much more than fencing, platform edging and recovery costs, plus numerous but not major delays and some cancellations for which the mentioned £1m sounds steep.
Makes me wonder what the equivalent figure would be when a lorry strikes a bridge completely closing a route, as has happened far too often in places such as Grantham.

 

[ComUtoR]

'set all signals near me to red urgently'?

Yes, the GSMR emergency button

The GSMR doesn't set all signals to red (afaik) It sends an EMERGENCY STOP message to all trains within specific cells. Sadly it is possible to miss a GSMR EMERGENCY STOP message :/

 

[Bald Rick]

Would the car's insurer / MIB actually be liable for delay minutes?

Yes they can be as it is a financial loss to the party who incurs it, through a formal contract, regardless of how it is calculated.

Many bridge bashes have resulted in payment, where the basher was known and not got off on a technicality.

 

[FGW_DID]

The GSMR doesn't set all signals to red (afaik) It sends an EMERGENCY STOP message to all trains within specific cells. Sadly it is possible to miss a GSMR EMERGENCY STOP message :/

The signalling workstation should have an SGRC (Signal Group Replacement Control) which when activated will revert all signals allocated to that particular group to danger. On the WestCAD workstation in our depot it will revert every GPL to red. There is also the ESOC (Emergency Signals On Control) or something like that, a big red button which if hit reverts all the depot signals to red but apparently it also drops everything else so any routes, reminders etc will drop out so it really is the Nuclear option, hence why it has a plastic cover over it to prevent accidental operation.

 

[kermit]

If it had been an electric Nissan car, the delays really would have been because of the wrong sort of Leaf on the line.

Best joke on these pages for a long time! If there was a "like" button, you would deserve many!

 

[Sunset route]

The signalling workstation should have an SGRC (Signal Group Replacement Control) which when activated will revert all signals allocated to that particular group to danger. On the WestCAD workstation in our depot it will revert every GPL to red. There is also the ESOC (Emergency Signals On Control) or something like that, a big red button which if hit reverts all the depot signals to red but apparently it also drops everything else so any routes, reminders etc will drop out so it really is the Nuclear option, hence why it has a plastic cover over it to prevent accidental operation.

What you described only works in a modern workstation based environment and there is plenty of signalling in Great Britain that has no such capabilities especially lever frames IFS panels and most NX panels up to mid 80s vintage.

In the 1980s multi panel box I work only 2 of the 10 panels have emergency group replacements and that’s because either they are a late addition when our box expanded it’s area of control or part of a major relocking during a rebuild of one of our major stations in both these cases it’s the use of “Smartlock Computer Based Interlocking” CBI that enabled those features

The rest is the signalling Centre still uses “Route Relay Interlocking” RRI and as such we only have a signals on function for the part of the interlocking that are controlled by a “Time Division Multiplex” TDM.

All of our automatic signals and we have vast miles of them come under a “Frequency Division Multiplex” FDM system and we either have no replacements or non proved replacements at best for them.

Going back to Stirling Middle Signalbox, I know it was a level frame (96 levers apparently) for the main lines through the station and either a small NX panel or workstation for the Alloa branch and Stirling North is a level Frame (48 levers apparently) would of had no such group replacement facilities in this case, not unless their lever frames were replaced with more modern controls systems under the central belt electrification project.

 

[Llanigraham]

At a lever frame box you'd chuck everything back into the frame and start banging the tapper in either direction!
Only ever received it once and boy does that get the adrenalin pumping!

 

[Ayrshire Roy]

I guess nothing will happen to the driver if the signal drops to red from green and they are doing linespeed just before it resulting in a spad?
As long as the driver reacts with the brakes anyway.

 

[hexagon789]

The GSMR doesn't set all signals to red (afaik) It sends an EMERGENCY STOP message to all trains within specific cells. Sadly it is possible to miss a GSMR EMERGENCY STOP message :/

I know that, but it informs the signaller of the need to do so. I wasn't suggesting it physically changed the signals to danger and I assumed the poster I was replying to was asking if there was a way to inform the signaller of the need to set signals to danger due to an emergency situation rather than a means for drivers to do so themselves but perhaps they were asking that?

 

[matchmaker]

What you described only works in a modern workstation based environment and there is plenty of signalling in Great Britain that has no such capabilities especially lever frames IFS panels and most NX panels up to mid 80s vintage.

In the 1980s multi panel box I work only 2 of the 10 panels have emergency group replacements and that’s because either they are a late addition when our box expanded it’s area of control or part of a major relocking during a rebuild of one of our major stations in both these cases it’s the use of “Smartlock Computer Based Interlocking” CBI that enabled those features

The rest is the signalling Centre still uses “Route Relay Interlocking” RRI and as such we only have a signals on function for the part of the interlocking that are controlled by a “Time Division Multiplex” TDM.

All of our automatic signals and we have vast miles of them come under a “Frequency Division Multiplex” FDM system and we either have no replacements or non proved replacements at best for them.

Going back to Stirling Middle Signalbox, I know it was a level frame (96 levers apparently) for the main lines through the station and either a small NX panel or workstation for the Alloa branch and Stirling North is a level Frame (48 levers apparently) would of had no such group replacement facilities in this case, not unless their lever frames were replaced with more modern controls systems under the central belt electrification project.

Stirling Middle:




Although all the signals are now LED, they are still controlled from the frame. There is a small NX panel for the Alloa line

 

[hexagon789]

I guess nothing will happen to the driver if the signal drops to red from green and they are doing linespeed just before it resulting in a spad?
As long as the driver reacts with the brakes anyway.

Yes, historically that would've been a lower grade SPAD but I believe it's now classed as a SPAR.

 

[matchmaker]

This is what happens when you don't have a traffic barrier between the car park and the platform. Entirely avoidable.

There was a 6 foot high security fence in place...