How long might it take to reopen the line near Stonehaven?

[furnessvale]

But, by the same token, those detailed and painstaking investigations are the biggest reason why accidents are much less frequent now than they used to be.

Everything has its price. Sadly that also includes human life. We have now gone past the stage where railways are able to compete with roads on price or reliabilty. Safety needs to be looked at holistically. Yes the railways are safe but for many unaffordable or cancelled for a variety of safety related reasons. So 95% (pre Covid) of passengers travel by road. How safe is that?

 

[swt_passenger]

Rail Technology Magazine has another aerial shot

https://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/articles/track-repairs-begin-stonehaven-site

to get a flavour of the works ongoing

Also available by scrolling down the earlier linked Network Rail article, although the position of the machinery in that pic does suggest there’s some changes being made.

 

[43096]

True, but even long after the war, accident sites were recovered a lot quicker than they are now.

The modern obsession with investigation is killing the job. By all means investigate, but how many weeks does it take to investigate why a cutting slope slipped in extreme wet weather?

Had a similar thing happened on the M8, would it still be closed?

To your last point, no of course it wouldn't.

And in similar vein, if it had been on the West Coast somewhere between Euston and (say) Milton Keynes, would the line still be shut? I rather suspect we know the answer...

 

[najaB]

And in similar vein, if it had been on the West Coast somewhere between Euston and (say) Milton Keynes, would the line still be shut? I rather suspect we know the answer...

The implication being that NR are deliberately working slowly because it's in Scotland?

 

[Speed43125]

The implication being that NR are deliberately working slowly because it's in Scotland?

Not Scotland per se, but much less accessible* and less busy (and therefore less important) bit of line. Grayrigg was afterall a long process with about a month of disruption.
I suspect Covid demand being down may have at least a phycological impact wherein people feel less under pressure to get things done quickly, which in my book can only be good thing for safety.
"Deliberately" is also a very strong accusation to be suggesting here.

*Grayrigg, while remote, was relatively accessible by road vehicles, if a bit of off-road driving was required. Accessing the site here looks to be harder in terms of the vertical distance between the track and anywhere to approach from (in say a lorry).

 

[eoff]

Indeed. Obviously 3 lost lives was tragic but the being the first deaths for 13 years shows a fantastic safety record.

This could have been up there with the worst rail disasters if this had happened with a normal load of passengers.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The implication being that NR are deliberately working slowly because it's in Scotland?

Which of course is an outrageous suggestion.

This could have been up there with the worst rail disasters if this had happened with a normal load of passengers.

I don’t disagree but still the 1st loss of life for 13 years which is a good safety record.

 

[QueensCurve]

Rail Technology Magazine has another aerial shot

https://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/articles/track-repairs-begin-stonehaven-site

to get a flavour of the works ongoing

That's one of the pictures published by Network Rail.

 

[Hadders]

And in similar vein, if it had been on the West Coast somewhere between Euston and (say) Milton Keynes, would the line still be shut? I rather suspect we know the answer...

After Hatfield I seem to remember the ECML being shut for a couple of weeks. The site at Hatfield is far more accessible than Carmont and didn't involve major earthworks, drainage, rebuilding bridges either....

 

[furnessvale]

Just for comparison of what can be achieved in a truly remote location in Oregon, USA.

For example, 1million tons of mud removed, 700,000 tones of stone imported, 3000ft of track swept away. Full report below.

Union Pacific Moves Mountains to Restore Train Service; Back on Track after Major Oregon Mudslide

After 105 days and 19 million cubic feet of mud, Union Pacific has completed the herculean task of restoring all rail service through the Cascade Mountains in Oregon.

www.uprr.com

 

[takno]

Just for comparison of what can be achieved in a truly remote location in Oregon, USA.

For example, 1million tons of mud removed, 700,000 tones of stone imported, 3000ft of track swept away. Full report below.

Union Pacific Moves Mountains to Restore Train Service; Back on Track after Major Oregon Mudslide

After 105 days and 19 million cubic feet of mud, Union Pacific has completed the herculean task of restoring all rail service through the Cascade Mountains in Oregon.

www.uprr.com

As far as I can see that's 30 miles from Eugene in a valley next to a major road. I wouldn't call it convenient, but I'm not sure I'd call it truly remote either.

 

[Millisle]

Just for comparison of what can be achieved in a truly remote location in Oregon, USA.

For example, 1million tons of mud removed, 700,000 tones of stone imported, 3000ft of track swept away. Full report below.

Union Pacific Moves Mountains to Restore Train Service; Back on Track after Major Oregon Mudslide

After 105 days and 19 million cubic feet of mud, Union Pacific has completed the herculean task of restoring all rail service through the Cascade Mountains in Oregon.

www.uprr.com

The clue to the difference in that article is in neither the location nor the resources, but in the 15 daily rerouted trains, presumably massive freghts. They make it pay to throw everything in as fast as possible. If the railway were similarly of economic importance here with, as 50 or 60 years ago, large parts of domestic and industrial life in the northeast of Scotland dependent on rail freight moving in and out, then the decision would have been made to do the job in a way that prioritised reopening and not to make it simpler for the civil engineer with prolonged complete possession. Passenger services have minimal importance to the wider economy. There was, however, a stronger sense in my personal memory of those times of a greater desire in adverse circumstances as far as possible to provide or restore an actual train service for passengers as quickly as possible as the priority.

 

[najaB]

They make it pay to throw everything in as fast as possible.

But, on the flip side, the USA has a terrible rail safety record - in no part due to the fact that they do the bare minimum needed to get things open as quickly as possible.

 

[Millisle]

But, on the flip side, the USA has a terrible rail safety record - in no part due to the fact that they do the bare minimum needed to get things open as quickly as possible.

However we historically did it quickly and carefully unlike America.
But that was not my fundamental point. In the past the safety would be assured, the site reopened at 5mph and the remaining civils gradually carried out with separate short possessions to accommodate the running department, not the civil engineer.

 

[bramling]

After Hatfield I seem to remember the ECML being shut for a couple of weeks. The site at Hatfield is far more accessible than Carmont and didn't involve major earthworks, drainage, rebuilding bridges either....

My memory is it was a little longer than that, my recollection is the Hertford Loop was shut to local services and I can certainly remember quite a few days of going that way. It was a surreal sight to see the fast lines rusty north of Alexandra Palace, the only trains to pass over that section were 313s as far as Potters Bar.

 

[coppercapped]

I recommend reading Roger Ford's article 'Constraints needed for accident investigation closures' on page 24 of the November edition of Modern Railways.

It took 38 days after the accident for the site to be handed back to Network Rail. Repairs could only start then...

 

[talltim]

Looks like the RAIB have been stung into action by some incorrect information published in Rail magazine

Media correction: Passenger train derailment near Carmont

Correction published by RAIL.

www.gov.uk

 

[Durradan]

Looks like the RAIB have been stung into action by some incorrect information published in Rail magazine

Media correction: Passenger train derailment near Carmont

Correction published by RAIL.

www.gov.uk

So the RAIL article is correct in substance if not in attribution?

 

[najaB]

So the RAIL article is correct in substance if not in attribution?

Seems that way. Though the fact that Police Scotland made the request while the RAIB deemed it unnecessary is interesting.

 

[Taunton]

And in similar vein, if it had been on the West Coast somewhere between Euston and (say) Milton Keynes, would the line still be shut? I rather suspect we know the answer...

If it had been between Euston and Milton Keynes you wouldn't have had a turf war between Police Scotland and the BTP, each trying to score one over the other and showing their investigation was the "better" one, as part of the ongoing campaign about merging the latter into the former - or not.

 

[swt_passenger]

Looks like the RAIB have been stung into action by some incorrect information published in Rail magazine

Media correction: Passenger train derailment near Carmont

Correction published by RAIL.

www.gov.uk

I guess they’ll be wanting Modern Railways to correct their article as well then, because Roger Ford has also written in the November magazine that it was the RAIB who had the catch pits dug out...

 

[Durradan]

Seems that way. Though the fact that Police Scotland made the request while the RAIB deemed it unnecessary is interesting.

No stone unturned. Literally.

 

[XAM2175]

If it had been between Euston and Milton Keynes you wouldn't have had a turf war between Police Scotland and the BTP, each trying to score one over the other and showing their investigation was the "better" one, as part of the ongoing campaign about merging the latter into the former - or not.

Is there any suggestion of this having happened?

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think you will find that is the Fiscal that has been a major influence in how things have gone and that hasn’t come from any rumoured inter police issues.

He/she is being somewhat demanding in the details to be looked at and the way things are done.

 

[matchmaker]

I think you will find that is the Fiscal that has been a major influence in how things have gone and that hasn’t come from any rumoured inter police issues.

He/she is being somewhat demanding in the details to be looked at and the way things are done.

Good point. Of course, both Police Scotland and BTP will be reporting to the PF, who will in turn be reporting to the Lord Advocate /Crown Office.

 

[InOban]

Since incidents like this are, fortunately, very rare, it is understandable that the authorities want to extract as much information as possible, particularly when traffic is so light.

 

[Durradan]

I've heard chatter from the rail replacement/bus staff that next Tuesday is looking like a possibility for the line reopening. Take it with a pinch of salt, but that would just about cover the "work continues into November" update from Network Rail the other week.

 

[221129]

I've heard chatter from the rail replacement/bus staff that next Tuesday is looking like a possibility for the line reopening. Take it with a pinch of salt, but that would just about cover the "work continues into November" update from Network Rail the other week.

16th November is the latest estimate from Network Rail to the TOCs...

 

[Durradan]

16th November is the latest estimate from Network Rail to the TOCs...

Hahaha, I really can't catch a break.

Ah well. The wait continues.

 

[800001]

16th November is the latest estimate from Network Rail to the TOCs...

Tuesday 3rd is the revised day for reopening at Carmont.