Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[CN04NRJ]

My friend went up to Seafield and took some photos of the New MCV Evora's, they gave me permission to post those images here:
He also said that "It's got the high back coach seats at the front above the wheel but they're joined together to create like a wide like on the 7900's"
They currently have 70 plates
View attachment 85256View attachment 85257
Another similar picture with different lighting (Credits to friend who took it, of course!):
View attachment 85258

Thanks for sharing and also thanks to your friend for giving permission. Can really see the length on them with that side on shot!

 

[NotATrainspott]

What benefits, if any, will these hypothetical tram lines offer and why should they come at the expense of a perfectly workable bus network?

Trams are one step up the urban transport hierarchy. Once a corridor is sufficiently busy with buses, the next step for efficient transport is a modern Gen 2 tramway system. Gen 2 tramways are street-running metros somewhere in between the capabilities of a bus/Gen 1 tram and an underground network. The fact that you have 5 independent step-free doors is a massive, massive bonus on the busiest routes with the highest passenger turnover.

In any case, I think more detailed tram discussion should happen over in the dedicated thread (Edinburgh Tram developments). I just wanted to comment on this one as the tram and urban plans do very strongly influence Lothian's future direction. The same will ultimately be true in every urban area, honestly. The idea that cities should just be an open street grid and bus companies can then independently come up with route plans is nonsense in any functioning urban area. Bus routes need to align with wider urban development goals or the whole system doesn't work.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Putting the ugly looks of the eVoRa aside the rear end of 73 looks very badly put together, the panels don't align at all!

I think they look fine at the rear. I see what you mean though

 

[CN04NRJ]

Putting the ugly looks of the eVoRa aside the rear end of 73 looks very badly put together, the panels don't align at all!

It's a real shame they didn't keep the old front end design, although not perfect it was far more attractive than this slab faced design.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It's a real shame they didn't keep the old front end design, although not perfect it was far more attractive than this slab faced design.

Agree, or at least come up with something that isn't just the front of a double decker bodged on to a single decker. The biggest issue other than the slab like front is the height of the windscreen, it's far too shallow. They basically just took the previous Evolution and stuck the front of the Evoseti on and it shows. The livery doesn't sit particularly well either, especially not from the front/nearside. It would probably look better with the additional gold.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Agree, or at least come up with something that isn't just the front of a double decker bodged on to a single decker. The biggest issue other than the slab like front is the height of the windscreen, it's far too shallow. They basically just took the previous Evolution and stuck the front of the Evoseti on and it shows. The livery doesn't sit particularly well either, especially not from the front/nearside. It would probably look better with the additional gold.

I agree - there's too much white area on the deckers and too much red on these. The gold lines would probably set it off nicely.

 

[Swanny200]

I think the proof in the pudding will be whether the Evora's are still running in a years time without bits falling off or reliability issues.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I think the proof in the pudding will be whether the Evora's are still running in a years time without bits falling off or reliability issues.

Depends how good the aftercare from Volvo and MCV will be. But based on previous buyers of B8/MCV products it's very hit or miss, they seem to focus on the bigger operators and shun all the independents, a number of which are now as such switching to other products on subsequent orders.

I agree - there's too much white area on the deckers and too much red on these. The gold lines would probably set it off nicely.

The white isn't a huge issue on deckers, if anything the white is what makes the livery look so modern on the older Geminis and E400s. But without the gold lines the livery just ends up looking bland, it's amazing how something so little changes things.

 

[scosutsut]

Random question. Do we know what the Skylink livery is going forward? I know the ex Airlink B5s were left in light blue & grey initially but have any since received the darker blue and white? I'm guessing no as 17 plates they probably haven't come up for repaint yet?

 

[OmniCity999]

Putting the ugly looks of the eVoRa aside the rear end of 73 looks very badly put together, the panels don't align at all!

Having met 73 on arrival and driven it a bit, the panelling is actually spot on all round, this is just a bad angle. Their also a horrid design, but thats my opinion.

Random question. Do we know what the Skylink livery is going forward? I know the ex Airlink B5s were left in light blue & grey initially but have any since received the darker blue and white? I'm guessing no as 17 plates they probably haven't come up for repaint yet?

I think they changed it to be a proper Skylink livery (changing to a darker blue and white).

nothing has changed. The blue & White and the Blue and silver liveries are both the Skylink liveries.

 

[Swanny200]

Having met 73 on arrival and driven it a bit, the panelling is actually spot on all round, this is just a bad angle. Their also a horrid design, but thats my opinion.


nothing has changed. The blue & White and the Blue and silver liveries are both the Skylink liveries.

Omni, compared to the Wrights that they have replaced, what are they like to drive?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Having met 73 on arrival and driven it a bit, the panelling is actually spot on all round, this is just a bad angle. Their also a horrid design, but thats my opinion.

Indeed, but the rear end still looks badly put together even if it's how it's designed to be. The demo had the same poorly aligned rear end too.

 

[OmniCity999]

Omni, compared to the Wrights that they have replaced, what are they like to drive?

Well their both Volvo traction and drivetrain.

That being said, the difference between the B7RLE and the B8RLE is night and day. These drive pretty similar to the East Coast singles 10051-10065, they are the same chassis, after all.

The important differences here are body's, cause thats the only thing thats different between these new ones and 10051-10065. Same sort of build really, wee bit less rattly, but then 10051-10065 are 3 years old so their bound to rattle.

Indeed, but the rear end still looks badly put together even if it's how it's designed to be. The demo had the same poorly aligned rear end too.

Well their all Jig built so their all identical. The image doesnt display them in the best light but they are passable.

 

[Graham Alexand]

I think they changed it to be a proper Skylink livery (changing to a darker blue and white).

Having met 73 on arrival and driven it a bit, the panelling is actually spot on all round, this is just a bad angle. Their also a horrid design, but thats my opinion.


nothing has changed. The blue & White and the Blue and silver liveries are both the Skylink liveries.

I know thats why i said to delete the comment because i read it wrong

Well their both Volvo traction and drivetrain.

That being said, the difference between the B7RLE and the B8RLE is night and day. These drive pretty similar to the East Coast singles 10051-10065, they are the same chassis, after all.

The important differences here are body's, cause thats the only thing thats different between these new ones and 10051-10065. Same sort of build really, wee bit less rattly, but then 10051-10065 are 3 years old so their bound to rattle.

I heard from someone that some of the the ECB B8RLE were going to get transferred to LCB is this true?

 

[OmniCity999]

I know thats why i said to delete the comment because i read it wrong


I heard from someone that some of the the ECB B8RLE were going to get transferred to LCB is this true?

no, it is not true - not at this point anyway, if any were transferred, it would be the 5 B7RLE's

the B8RLE's would stay.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Well their both Volvo traction and drivetrain.

That being said, the difference between the B7RLE and the B8RLE is night and day. These drive pretty similar to the East Coast singles 10051-10065, they are the same chassis, after all.

The important differences here are body's, cause thats the only thing thats different between these new ones and 10051-10065. Same sort of build really, wee bit less rattly, but then 10051-10065 are 3 years old so their bound to rattle.

I had the pleasure of bus 10 this afternoon - see more of 1-10 have appeared at Longstone today. As long as they're better than those I'll be happy

 

[Graham Alexand]

no, it is not true - not at this point anyway, if any were transferred, it would be the 5 B7RLE's

the B8RLE's would stay.

Ok thank you, i thought it was a lie

 

[OmniCity999]

Ok thank you, i thought it was a lie

although 1 or 2 might go to help with the amazon contract, i havent seen any movements and their all still showing as either on ECB services or in their care.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

I saw 10 on the 36 a few weeks ago but have not seen it since also what about reinstating 186-190.

 

[Lothianbus703]

I know, I have always wondered why the eclipses aren’t being used on the current single decker routes as they have more capacity.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I know, I have always wondered why the eclipses aren’t being used on the current single decker routes as they have more capacity.

I think it is simply so people can stay apart more with Social Distancing.

 

[scosutsut]

I know, I have always wondered why the eclipses aren’t being used on the current single decker routes as they have more capacity.

If you mean instead of the 7900s it's been posted before that one of the factors is the batteries in the 7900s don't take well to sitting out of use.

 

[OmniCity999]

I saw 10 on the 36 a few weeks ago but have not seen it since also what about reinstating 186-190.

I know, I have always wondered why the eclipses aren’t being used on the current single decker routes as they have more capacity.

I think it is simply so people can stay apart more with Social Distancing.

If you mean instead of the 7900s it's been posted before that one of the factors is the batteries in the 7900s don't take well to sitting out of use.

As the 7900's are Hybrids, they have batteries incorporated into their drivetrain. If these are left too long they can die - replacement costs per vehicle is upwards of £40,000.

The eclipses are straight diesel.

Thats why the eclipses are in storage and the 7900's have been out this entire time.

Those demanding eclipses, feel free to pay the repair bill for the 7900's

 

[CN04NRJ]

As the 7900's are Hybrids, they have batteries incorporated into their drivetrain. If these are left too long they can die - replacement costs per vehicle is upwards of £40,000.

The eclipses are straight diesel.

Thats why the eclipses are in storage and the 7900's have been out this entire time.

Those demanding eclipses, feel free to pay the repair bill for the 7900's

Those demanding eclipses have their demands met - at least two of them anyway. They dodged the repair bill .

174 should be out on 30s today, not sure about 175 but it is taxed.

Edit, 174 was allocated but didn't go out.

 

[scosutsut]

Out of interest, the 7900s seem less favoured by drivers, can I ask why?

 

[CN04NRJ]

Out of interest, the 7900s seem less favoured by drivers, can I ask why?

For me,
Driving position, derated engine doesn't work well with the I-shift,

The nearside mirror is unnecessarily bulky, low hanging and sticks out too far - have to be extra wary of this at bus stops in regards to people and places where you're tight against walls or foliage.

See -

When battery charge is low they're very jerky in low gears, in regen mode / low charge they're jerky pulling away and difficult to drive smoothly and struggle climbing hills often trying to use almost every gear. Gear changes can be slow so if you've pulled out safely on a roundabout or junction traffic quickly catches up to you so you have to bear this in mind when making decisions to pull out.

There's certain situations (e.g turning left off Hailesland Road onto Murrayburn Road) where they'll try to pull off on electric power but the motors aren't powerful enough so they'll just stop, engage gear and try again in diesel. Occasionally the 13 plates just stall in that situation.

General build quality isn't very good, I believe they were made in Poland - I've driven Swedish and Polish built Scania OmniCitys before and the difference was night and day in regards to build quality. The cab area in particular is quite rattly on a 7900.

Capacity is/was an issue before covid.

Don't know why the B5LHs are so different to drive, rarely have any of the above issues when I've driven those so can only really put it down to the single deck chassis being derated in terms of engine power and presumably the motors. The 14/64 plates with the more powerful euro 6 engine are better but still suffer with the same issues.

Obviously they're maintained to the highest standards so there's no issues there - but in my opinion they're just a flawed design.
Probably why there's so few of them in the UK but I don't think there was any real full diesel alternative at the time for single decks?

That's my Top Gear review of a 7900 - brought to you from inside a 7900 . Wouldn't know much from the engineering perspective of them but the impression I get is they're not well liked either.

 

[Aaronb2601]

So is it a possibility that some of the B7RLE’s may be back in service soon then?

 

[ScotRail158725]

So is it a possibility that some of the B7RLE’s may be back in service soon then?

167 upward will, all the trainers, ECB/LC, and main fleet B7RLEs up to 166 are withdrawn and for sale

 

[CN04NRJ]

So is it a possibility that some of the B7RLE’s may be back in service soon then?

174 was allocated to a 30 this morning but for whatever reason didn't make it out (with less buses on the 30/38 on a Saturday there's plenty of 7900s spare - I was hoping to have it as my 30 didn't have a bus allocated ).

I'd imagine 174/5 may start being used from Monday.

 

[computerSaysNo]

For me,
Driving position, derated engine doesn't work well with the I-shift,

The nearside mirror is unnecessarily bulky, low hanging and sticks out too far - have to be extra wary of this at bus stops in regards to people and places where you're tight against walls or foliage.

See - View attachment 85307

When battery charge is low they're very jerky in low gears, in regen mode / low charge they're jerky pulling away and difficult to drive smoothly and struggle climbing hills often trying to use almost every gear. Gear changes can be slow so if you've pulled out safely on a roundabout or junction traffic quickly catches up to you so you have to bear this in mind when making decisions to pull out.

There's certain situations (e.g turning left off Hailesland Road onto Murrayburn Road) where they'll try to pull off on electric power but the motors aren't powerful enough so they'll just stop, engage gear and try again in diesel. Occasionally the 13 plates just stall in that situation.

General build quality isn't very good, I believe they were made in Poland - I've driven Swedish and Polish built Scania OmniCitys before and the difference was night and day in regards to build quality. The cab area in particular is quite rattly on a 7900.

Capacity is/was an issue before covid.

Don't know why the B5LHs are so different to drive, rarely have any of the above issues when I've driven those so can only really put it down to the single deck chassis being derated in terms of engine power and presumably the motors. The 14/64 plates with the more powerful euro 6 engine are better but still suffer with the same issues.

Obviously they're maintained to the highest standards so there's no issues there - but in my opinion they're just a flawed design.
Probably why there's so few of them in the UK but I don't think there was any real full diesel alternative at the time for single decks?

That's my Top Gear review of a 7900 - brought to you from inside a 7900 . Wouldn't know much from the engineering perspective of them but the impression I get is they're not well liked either.

Thanks for that, very interesting.
What do all the buttons in the cab do? I ask because sometimes when I'm on one the engine always stops when the bus stops, and then to get going again it does the pathetic little thing on electric until I'd guess about 2mph, then stops accelerating while the engine starts up and engages, and then accelerates only a few more mph before it has to go back to idle to change gear. But other times, the engine just idles when the bus stops, and when the driver pulls away it starts in electric but when it gets to 2-3mph the engine just revs and the bus keeps accelerating smoothly; I wondered if there was a button in the cab to switch from the first situation to the second. I know it's possible to switch the creep on/off as I've been on 7900s where it's been set differently, so maybe the above is similar.
Also is it possible to change the front/rear destination display brightness between some sort of day and night mode? I've seen 7900s at night with the display at a good brightness which is easy to read, and I've seen others with the display being so bright it's probably brighter than the headlights!! When it's that bright at night it's a lot more difficult to read.