Services that used to run to St Pancras station

[Taunton]

There were boat trains from St Pancras to Tilbury Docks. ( Presumably there used to be services to other LTSR destinations?)

Surprisingly, the Goblin (wasn't called that then) to Barking has never run from St Pancras, even back into steam days it always traditionally started one station out at Kentish Town instead. Never quite apparent why. Services on that line through to the LTS, which were quite widespread in former times in summer, invariably came from northwards.

 

[WesternLancer]

Were there ever St Pancras to Heysham boat trains given Heysham harbour was owned by the Midland Railway?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Were there ever St Pancras to Heysham boat trains given Heysham harbour was owned by the Midland Railway?

Yes according to Wikipedia.

Heysham Port railway station - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The most notable was a daily through train to/from London St Pancras via Sheffield

 

[mailbyrail]

More recently, Barnsley-London St Pancras under Midland Mainline. I think there was another service to somewhere random, possibly Burton On Trent, also Matlock and York.

Yes, Midland Mainline ran some services to and from Burton on Trent/Willington, Matlock and all stations to Derby and Meadowhall/Barnsley to and from St.Pancras. Once Midland Mainline went, so did the through services.

 

[tbtc]

More recently, Barnsley-London St Pancras under Midland Mainline. I think there was another service to somewhere random, possibly Burton On Trent, also Matlock and York

You are correct - Burton, Matlock and Barnsley all had Turbostar services (York was the HST service that extends to Scarborough in the summer that continued under EMT/ EMR). I was a little surprised that Midland Mainline didn't do a box-ticking service to Mansfield too (could have been a one-a-day extension of a Nottingham - London Turbostar) - whilst the Mansfield line was in the hands of Central Trains, the same could have been said of the Matlock branch.

The Matlock service was scrapped when (two/three coach) 170s were replaced by heavier (four coach) 222s that meant a bridge on the Matlock branch could no longer accommodate the service IIRC.

The scrapping of the service to Meadowhall/ Barnsley leaves London as the largest place in the UK without a direct link to Barnsley - hopefully Sadiq Khan will have reversing this as a manifesto commitment at the next Mayoral election!

 

[70014IronDuke]

Up to about 1961-2, there were also trains St Pancras to Bradford and through carriages to Halifax and, perhaps Huddersfield? Maybe my memory is wonky on the latter.

That was the new name given to "Thames-Forth Express" (mentioned upthread in post #10) when the service was reinstated in c. 1957 after a lengthy post WW2 period when it hadn't been running.

Was it as late as 1957? But yes, the Waverley was the daytime St Pancras - Edinburgh 'express' (of sorts) in the 1960s. It ran via the 'Back Road' - ie via Manton.

From about 1964 or 65 it became summer only. In winter, there were Edinburgh coaches attached and detached at Carlisle to the Thames-Clyde.

The Thames Clyde ran via Leicester and Trent until about 1968, when it ran into Nottingham and reversed.

...

Were the Glasgow St Enoch and Edinburgh portions of the same sleeper train?

I think you are mixing this up with the daytime winter trains. I believe there were two separate sleeper trains ie to both Glasgow and Edinburgh, until the Waverley route closed. For a number of years, these were 21.15 and 21.30 ex St Pancras from memory.

I have an idea one ran via Nottingham, the other via Derby. After the closure of the Waverley (route), the Edinburgh sleeper was stopped, and the Glasgow sleeper ran to Nottingham, then reversed, to reach Sheffield via Derby.

As I wrote above, in winter from about 1965, the (daytime) The Waverley didn't run. Edinburgh carriages were added/detached from the TC at Carlisle.

Other named services were The Palatine, between Manchester and London. A matching service was named the Peaks Express. I believe that the Great Eastern Railway also ran a few services from St Pancras for a while.

The Palatine didn't last long as a named train. It started in 1957 or 58 as the 07.55 ex St Pancras, calling at Luton and Wellingborough before Leicester. I think the return was the 14.25 ? ex Man Central.

I'm pretty sure that by the winter 1962 timetable, which was enhanced because of WCML electrification, it had lost its name.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

You are correct - Burton, Matlock and Barnsley all had Turbostar services (York was the HST service that extends to Scarborough in the summer that continued under EMT/ EMR). I was a little surprised that Midland Mainline didn't do a box-ticking service to Mansfield too (could have been a one-a-day extension of a Nottingham - London Turbostar) - whilst the Mansfield line was in the hands of Central Trains, the same could have been said of the Matlock branch.

The Matlock service was scrapped when (two/three coach) 170s were replaced by heavier (four coach) 222s that meant a bridge on the Matlock branch could no longer accommodate the service IIRC.

The scrapping of the service to Meadowhall/ Barnsley leaves London as the largest place in the UK without a direct link to Barnsley - hopefully Sadiq Khan will have reversing this as a manifesto commitment at the next Mayoral election!

what is Sadiq Khan gonna do? He hasn’t got any power over the Barnsley to London, he can’t do anything only the DfT. sadiq Khan only controls what is in London not Barnsley

 

[Whistler40145]

I've had 58025 on a railtour out of St Pancras to Ramsgate and then vis the freight line to Acton Wells

 

[pdeaves]

what is Sadiq Khan gonna do? He hasn’t got any power over the Barnsley to London, he can’t do anything only the DfT. sadiq Khan only controls what is in London not Barnsley

I think tbtc's comment was intended light-heartedly.

 

[Sprinter107]

Surprisingly, the Goblin (wasn't called that then) to Barking has never run from St Pancras, even back into steam days it always traditionally started one station out at Kentish Town instead. Never quite apparent why. Services on that line through to the LTS, which were quite widespread in former times in summer, invariably came from northwards.

The 1963 to 1964 timetable shows departures from St Pancras to Barking at
5.0am All stns except Crouch Hill to Barking
6.5am All stns to Barking
6.49am All stns to Barking

There were early morning arrivals at St Pancras which had called at all stns from Barking at 5.45, 6.27 and 6.55.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I think tbtc's comment was intended light-heartedly.

Ok apologies to @tbtc

 

[Bald Rick]

Surprisingly, the Goblin (wasn't called that then)

And still isn’t.

 

[High Dyke]

I've had 58025 on a railtour out of St Pancras to Ramsgate and then vis the freight line to Acton Wells

If that's the same tour I went on, I remember heading into 'Woolies' at Ramsgate where we purchased some Christmas decorations to brighten up the coach for the trip home.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Was it as late as 1957? But yes, the Waverley was the daytime St Pancras - Edinburgh 'express' (of sorts) in the 1960s. It ran via the 'Back Road' - ie via Manton.

May have been an unnamed service immediately prior to June 1957. Perhaps someone with access to old timetables could confirm.

 

[tbtc]

The scrapping of the service to Meadowhall/ Barnsley leaves London as the largest place in the UK without a direct link to Barnsley - hopefully Sadiq Khan will have reversing this as a manifesto commitment at the next Mayoral election!

what is Sadiq Khan gonna do? He hasn’t got any power over the Barnsley to London, he can’t do anything only the DfT. sadiq Khan only controls what is in London not Barnsley

I think tbtc's comment was intended light-heartedly.

Sorry; I intended it to be tongue in cheek, since people are always talking about the "largest place without a direct train to London" (and how the local economy would be rejuvenated if only it had such a through service) - I was just turning the tables - should have been clearer I was just joking.

 

[darwins]

Bradford Exchange was served by a through train called The Yorkshireman - there were also through carriages for Huddersfield and Halifax.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==

May have been an unnamed service immediately prior to June 1957. Perhaps someone with access to old timetables could confirm.

From 1927 to 1939 it was the Thames Forth Express, it continued to run, without a name during and after the war.

 

[Western Sunset]

Regarding named trains, there was also "The Robin Hood" in BR days to Nottingham.

Back in MR days, there were also GER trains from St Pan to Cambridge, Ely, Norwich and Yarmouth. With regard to Scottish services in those days, there were Pullman sleeping cars to Greenock and Perth, as well as those already mentioned.

 

[Taunton]

But yes, the Waverley was the daytime St Pancras - Edinburgh 'express' (of sorts) in the 1960s. It ran via the 'Back Road' - ie via Manton.

There was a bizarre period in the 1960s when the Down train ran via Nottingham, then Derby and onwards, stopping at Trent. The Up train meanwhile served neither but came up the Erewash Valley line, then on to Leicester, also stopping at Trent, meaning both Up and Down stopped at the station at the same platform heading in the same direction.

Back in MR days, there were also GER trains from St Pan to Cambridge, Ely, Norwich and Yarmouth.

This led to St Pancras' grandest train of all. Back in pre-grouping days the Royal Train route to Sandringham was on the GER from Liverpool Street. Now there is a considerable hoopla whenever the Monarch enters the City of London, the Lord Mayor has to come in, put on full regalia, and "invite" the Monarch in at the boundary. To save all this the GER Royal Train was run from St Pancras, up the Goblin (which I apparently mustn't call it - OK, OK, the THJ), and onto the GER at Tottenham, the same route that these few regular trains to Cambridge used, and quite possibly the reason for them in the first place, to keep the route knowledge. After 1923 they could use Kings Cross and go via Hitchin, LNER all the way.

 

[181]

I would guess that the Glasgow and the Edinburgh via the S&C (both the daytime trains and the Sleepers) would have been meant mainly for passengers making intermediate journeys such as Nottingham to Glasgow or Edinburgh rather than for people travelling on them throughout.

For the sleepers, not necessarily. I'm told that my great-uncle preferred the sleeper from St. Enoch to St. Pancras because it gave him more time in bed then Central-Euston.

And it wouldn't suprise me if before 1923 the Midland Railway used cheaper fares or greater comfort to try and persuade passengers to choose their route for end-to-end journeys by day and by night.

 

[Senex]

For the sleepers, not necessarily. I'm told that my great-uncle preferred the sleeper from St. Enoch to St. Pancras because it gave him more time in bed then Central-Euston.

And it wouldn't suprise me if before 1923 the Midland Railway used cheaper fares or greater comfort to try and persuade passengers to choose their route for end-to-end journeys by day and by night.

The Midland's reputation was for service and comfort — "The Best Way". It knew it wasn't going to win on speed on the Scottish routes or to Leeds, though it did have a good try at fast times on the Manchester line, but it built high-quality rolling stock and was very generous in its offer of catering, its range of station hotels, etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2020 ==

There was a bizarre period in the 1960s when the Down train ran via Nottingham, then Derby and onwards, stopping at Trent. The Up train meanwhile served neither but came up the Erewash Valley line, then on to Leicester, also stopping at Trent, meaning both Up and Down stopped at the station at the same platform heading in the same direction.
This led to St Pancras' grandest train of all. Back in pre-grouping days the Royal Train route to Sandringham was on the GER from Liverpool Street. Now there is a considerable hoopla whenever the Monarch enters the City of London, the Lord Mayor has to come in, put on full regalia, and "invite" the Monarch in at the boundary. To save all this the GER Royal Train was run from St Pancras, up the Goblin (which I apparently mustn't call it - OK, OK, the THJ), and onto the GER at Tottenham, the same route that these few regular trains to Cambridge used, and quite possibly the reason for them in the first place, to keep the route knowledge. After 1923 they could use Kings Cross and go via Hitchin, LNER all the way.

I thought the original reason for some of the Norwich-via-Cambridge trains running from St Pancras was that the GER wanted a somewhat more socially prestigious and more western terminus than Liverpool Street.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Sorry; I intended it to be tongue in cheek, since people are always talking about the "largest place without a direct train to London" (and how the local economy would be rejuvenated if only it had such a through service) - I was just turning the tables - should have been clearer I was just joking.

You’ll have excuse me its where my autism shows

 

[Bevan Price]

There also used to be St. Pancras to Buxton portions, separated from Manchester services at Millers Dale.

 

[RT4038]

The 1963 to 1964 timetable shows departures from St Pancras to Barking at
5.0am All stns except Crouch Hill to Barking
6.5am All stns to Barking
6.49am All stns to Barking

There were early morning arrivals at St Pancras which had called at all stns from Barking at 5.45, 6.27 and 6.55.

The 1956 timetable has a more substantial service from St Pancras:
Weekdays
12.25am All stns except Crouch Hill to Barking
2.35am All Stns except Crouch Hill to Woodgrange Park
4.5am All stns except Crouch Hill to Barking
5.0am All stns except Crouch Hill to East Ham
6.0am & 6.53am All stns to Barking
9.25am, 12.25am, 2.45pm(SX) All stns to Barking continuing to Southend
3.38pm All stns to East Ham
8.33pm (FX), 10.15pm, 11.10pm(SX) All stns to Barking
Sundays
12.35am All stns except Crouch Hill to Barking
6.5am, 7.10am, 8.5am, 9.14am, 10.20am*, 12.25pm, 1.15pm, 2.10pm, 3.10pm, 4.40pm, 6.40pm, 9.40pm all stns to Barking, with * continuing to Southend

The Southend trains ran fast from Barking to Benfleet then all stns, with the 9.25am weekdays additionally calling at Upminster.

 

[WesternLancer]

Regarding named trains, there was also "The Robin Hood" in BR days to Nottingham.

Back in MR days, there were also GER trains from St Pan to Cambridge, Ely, Norwich and Yarmouth. With regard to Scottish services in those days, there were Pullman sleeping cars to Greenock and Perth, as well as those already mentioned.

The Robin Hood is still listed in EMRs printed and pdf timetables. 8am Nottm to St P and a rtn in the afternoon. One of their 4 named trains.

 

[daodao]

According to the April 1910 Bradshaw's guide, in addition to current services, there were through trains/carriages (some mentioned above) from St Pancras to:

• Stranraer Harbour via the Port Road, linked by ferry via Larne Harbour to the MR's own subsidiary, the NCC, in Ulster, which ran connecting boat trains to Belfast (York Road) and Ballymena (the latter route was narrow gauge).
• Heysham Harbour via the little NW line.
• Manchester Central via the South District and High Peak lines, with some through carriages for Buxton
• Liverpool (Central), both via Manchester Central and via West Timperley (some of the latter ran via Stockport Tiviot Dale and others via Cheadle Heath).
• Blackburn, via Marple (Bridge), M/c Victoria and Bolton (Trinity Street).
• Edinburgh and Glasgow, via the S&C and the Waverley/GSWR lines respectively
• Aberdeen via Dundee, and Perth, via the Waverley route.
• Bradford (both Forster Square via Leeds Wellington and Exchange via Halifax); there were also through carriages for Huddersfield.
• Nottingham and beyond via Melton Mowbray.
• Burton-on-Trent, via Ashby-de-la-Zouche.
• Barking, with some extending to Southend-on-Sea via the LTSR
• Cambridge and Norwich via the GER

 

[oldman]

According to Nock, they had a sleeper to Inverness for a while in the late 19th century.

 

[randyrippley]

Was anything from St Pancras ever routed via the Ingleton branch?

 

[Iskra]

Was anything from St Pancras ever routed via the Ingleton branch?

I believe so, for a while as that route was seen as the preferred route over the Settle Carlisle. I will confirm this from one of Bairstow’s books on the line when I get home. This would mean Penrith would have had a direct service to St Pancras too and possibly a through coach to Keswick, possibly Summer only, again I will confirm when I get home from work this evening.

 

[Senex]

I believe so, for a while as that route was seen as the preferred route over the Settle Carlisle. I will confirm this from one of Bairstow’s books on the line when I get home. This would mean Penrith would have had a direct service to St Pancras too and possibly a through coach to Keswick, possibly Summer only, again I will confirm when I get home from work this evening.

I don't think anything ran via Ingleton after the S&C was opened save for bad-weather diversions occasionally. However, in the few years leading up to WW1 there was a regular Midland service. Starting on 1 July 1910 "The 10.0 a.m. Express Leeds to Scotland and the 10.30 a.m. Express from Edinburgh to Leeds, etc., will run via Penrith, with connections to and from Keswick.” The WTT of the time confirms the routing via Ingleton, with the note for the northbound train reading: “Via Tebay, Penrith, and L. & N. W. Line.” These trains ran during the summer season only. They appear again in the Alterations Notice in the July 1911 Public Time Table. They ran for the last time in the summer of 1912. Their operation was made possible by the agreement for closer working between the Midland and the London & North Western. In 1913 and 1914 the through trains were replaced by through coaches. There was nothing in 1915.

 

[70014IronDuke]

There was a bizarre period in the 1960s when the Down train ran via Nottingham, then Derby and onwards, stopping at Trent. The Up train meanwhile served neither but came up the Erewash Valley line, then on to Leicester, also stopping at Trent, meaning both Up and Down stopped at the station at the same platform heading in the same direction.
....

Really? The daytime train (ie we are not mixing this up with the sleeper)? That would have added at least 25 mins to the running time. That really is bizarre. And the Thames Clyde, usually timed to leave St Pancras an hour later, would have been right behind it if they had done this.