Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[robertclark125]

And you’ll probably find that Lothian/East Coast actually refuse to send any buses around there until this issue is rectified. As per usual designers not taking buses into account in their plans.

Similar situation happening at Greendykes. New road layouts/roundabout totally unsuitable for buses to negotiate or pass eachother. What makes it frustrating is multiple routes serve these roads (and have done for a few years) so no excuse!

Interestingly enough, several years ago, Stagecoach East Scotland diverted route 19 off a street in Rosyth until road humps were fixed to take buses, or even removed. They were removed, and the 19 was restored. So, it can be done.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Canteen talk, i know, but ive heard the large vehicle order due next year is going to include 8-10 for ECB.

I'm sure I've read that before too, probably on this forum, not sure what the source was though.
I'm sure it was mentioned x number of XLBs for City and 8 B5s for ECB (I think it was said the B5s might be dual door too; I could see the point in that if the 113 were a Central or Marine route, as they could then be used on other routes from that garage, but being with ECB I don't think dual door is a good idea as they wouldn't really be suitable for any other route that ECB run).

 

[CN04NRJ]

I'm sure I've read that before too, probably on this forum, not sure what the source was though.
I'm sure it was mentioned x number of XLBs for City and 8 B5s for ECB (I think it was said the B5s might be dual door too; I could see the point in that if the 113 were a Central or Marine route, as they could then be used on other routes from that garage, but being with ECB I don't think dual door is a good idea as they wouldn't really be suitable for any other route that ECB run).

Is the full DD order for Lothian all XLBs or a mix of those and B5TL/LHs?

 

[OmniCity999]

I'm sure I've read that before too, probably on this forum, not sure what the source was though.
I'm sure it was mentioned x number of XLBs for City and 8 B5s for ECB (I think it was said the B5s might be dual door too; I could see the point in that if the 113 were a Central or Marine route, as they could then be used on other routes from that garage, but being with ECB I don't think dual door is a good idea as they wouldn't really be suitable for any other route that ECB run).

It was me that previously stated that, talk is now that it could be 10 for ECB with all of the LMC deckers going and a couple of the ex-Airlink B9's.

I have to half agree with you there, personally dual door is ideal for the 113, high passenger turnaround through urban & built up areas. They'd also be suitable for the 124 as far as Prestonpans i reckon.

Is the full DD order for Lothian all XLBs or a mix of those and B5TL/LHs?

Mostly B8L's apparently! only B5 variants for ECB

 

[Graham Alexand]

It was me that previously stated that, talk is now that it could be 10 for ECB with all of the LMC deckers going and a couple of the ex-Airlink B9's.

I have to half agree with you there, personally dual door is ideal for the 113, high passenger turnaround through urban & built up areas. They'd also be suitable for the 124 as far as Prestonpans i reckon.

Mostly B8L's apparently! only B5 variants for ECB

Do you know when are these buses due?

 

[OmniCity999]

Do you know when are these buses due?

Next year some time, the chassis arent even built yet, theyve then got to be shipped from Volvo (in Poland or Sweden i think?) then they have to build the body etc, certification and into service. Remember, this has to happen 98 times, as there's 98 on order.

it was 12 months between Lothian ordering the first batch to the first one being delivered.

But with the news that ADL have laid alot of staff off, it's going to be a while. Then there's the talk of going with MCV, but i'll not even entertain that rumour.

so... they'll be ready when they are ready!

things dont get ordered and arrive the next day, this isnt Amazon, its batch manufacturing.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Next year some time, the chassis arent even built yet, theyve then got to be shipped from Volvo (in Poland or Sweden i think?) then they have to build the body etc, certification and into service. Remember, this has to happen 98 times, as there's 98 on order.

it was 12 months between Lothian ordering the first batch to the first one being delivered.

But with the news that ADL have laid alot of staff off, it's going to be a while. Then there's the talk of going with MCV, but i'll not even entertain that rumour.

so... they'll be ready when they are ready!

things dont get ordered and arrive the next day, this isnt Amazon, its batch manufacturing.

Fair enough, from a previous reply where would the displaced B9TL's from East Coast Buses go?

 

[OmniCity999]

Fair enough, from a previous reply where would the displaced B9TL's from East Coast Buses go?

Sale most likely by that point, there'd be ~90 brand new buses so we'd be starting to shift main fleet B9's anyway.

 

[scosutsut]

Would seem odd to me for any of ECBs B9s to go, being 10 plates, and not due replacement until 2022/2023 (assuming 13 years old remains the adjusted fleet renewal target) I'd expect older ones to go first which are predominantly in main fleet.

 

[OmniCity999]

Would seem odd to me for any of ECBs B9s to go, being 10 plates, and not due replacement until 2022/2023 (assuming 13 years old remains the adjusted fleet renewal target) I'd expect older ones to go first which are predominantly in main fleet.

It would seem odd, but i cant see them getting repainted into main fleet or LCB. The Scanias had plenty life left in them when they left, back when it was tridents, they were replaced regularly on Airlink.

They've had a hard life - 5 years of Airlink (back when the allocation was 14 with constant use), regular motorway miles, often 24 hour service.

We'll see anyway.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Next year some time, the chassis arent even built yet, theyve then got to be shipped from Volvo (in Poland or Sweden i think?) then they have to build the body etc, certification and into service. Remember, this has to happen 98 times, as there's 98 on order.

it was 12 months between Lothian ordering the first batch to the first one being delivered.

But with the news that ADL have laid alot of staff off, it's going to be a while. Then there's the talk of going with MCV, but i'll not even entertain that rumour.

so... they'll be ready when they are ready!

things dont get ordered and arrive the next day, this isnt Amazon, its batch manufacturing.

So up to 90 B8Ls, wow! That'll be quite the significant portion of the fleet being tri axle by the end of next year then.

As for the unmentionable rumour, they do already body the B8L do they not for Hong Kong and other markets? I was impressed by the build quality of MCV B5LHs I've traveled on in London so maybe it might not be such a bad thing if it comes to that.

 

[OmniCity999]

So up to 90 B8Ls, wow! That'll be quite the significant portion of the fleet being tri axle by the end of next year then.

As for the unmentionable rumour, they do already body the B8L do they not for Hong Kong and other markets? I was impressed by the build quality of MCV B5LHs I've traveled on in London so maybe it might not be such a bad thing if it comes to that.

they do but the Hong Kong examples shorter, i believe the London examples with the company that runs the Warner tours, are shorter than Lothians but longer than the Hong Kong ones.

 

[CN04NRJ]

they do but the Hong Kong examples shorter, i believe the London examples with the company that runs the Warner tours, are shorter than Lothians but longer than the Hong Kong ones.

Guess it'll be round two of are they ADL or MCV next year then

Bets anyone?

 

[OmniCity999]

Guess it'll be round two of are they ADL or MCV next year then

Bets anyone?

ADL, as the deal is signed

 

[computerSaysNo]

It was me that previously stated that, talk is now that it could be 10 for ECB with all of the LMC deckers going and a couple of the ex-Airlink B9's.

Ah.
If they're buying enough to replace some of the 10 plate B9s, would it not make more sense to just replace them all while they're at it? There are only 13 of them so surley replacing only 2 doesn't really make sense?

I have to half agree with you there, personally dual door is ideal for the 113, high passenger turnaround through urban & built up areas. They'd also be suitable for the 124 as far as Prestonpans i reckon.

I would agree that dual doors might be alright within Edinburgh/Mussleburgh, but they are not the primary services within that area*, and there are large sections of the 113 and (especially) the 124 which are more rural, and I would argue the reduced maintenance and increased seating are more important for these services than reduced dwell in the city (the traffic is more of a problem I'd say, especially through Portobello).

*I'm imagining at least some of the XLBs will be for Longstone and the 3 and 44, so that section of the 113 will be dual door, and probably some for Marine so the 26 might go dual door too.

 

[OmniCity999]

Ah.
If they're buying enough to replace some of the 10 plate B9s, would it not make more sense to just replace them all while they're at it? There are only 13 of them so surley replacing only 2 doesn't really make sense?

I would agree that dual doors might be alright within Edinburgh/Mussleburgh, but they are not the primary services within that area*, and there are large sections of the 113 and (especially) the 124 which are more rural, and I would argue the reduced maintenance and increased seating are more important for these services than reduced dwell in the city (the traffic is more of a problem I'd say, especially through Portobello).

*I'm imagining at least some of the XLBs will be for Longstone and the 3 and 44, so that section of the 113 will be dual door, and probably some for Marine so the 26 might go dual door too.

it's important to remember it's all canteen talk.

I had heard Marine was getting ~40 for 25's & 26's, Longstone was getting ~40 for its 3's & 25's and ~10 for Central for the 31, numbers would be made up with current B8's and some B5's.

Any more batches would be allocated to 22's and 44's.

But as i say, it's all canteen talk.

 

[scosutsut]

It would seem odd, but i cant see them getting repainted into main fleet or LCB. The Scanias had plenty life left in them when they left, back when it was tridents, they were replaced regularly on Airlink.

They've had a hard life - 5 years of Airlink (back when the allocation was 14 with constant use), regular motorway miles, often 24 hour service.

We'll see anyway.

Yeah it will be interesting, I guess as you say the life they've led up until now has been pretty heavy going. I definitely would expect them to see out their Lothian Group careers with ECB as you wouldn't expect them to be down for any further major repaint or refurb work.

No one would have believed you a few years ago if you were discussing the major operator in the county replacing vehicles at 10 years old, there was a recent time where that was positively modern!

 

[OmniCity999]

Yeah it will be interesting, I guess as you say the life they've led up until now has been pretty heavy going. I definitely would expect them to see out their Lothian Group careers with ECB as you wouldn't expect them to be down for any further major repaint or refurb work.

No one would have believed you a few years ago if you were discussing the major operator in the county replacing vehicles at 10 years old, there was a recent time where that was positively modern!

The thought is that if you sell them relatively young then you can get a good price, being either Euro5/6 their more desirable.

 

[computerSaysNo]

it's important to remember it's all canteen talk.

I had heard Marine was getting ~40 for 25's & 26's, Longstone was getting ~40 for its 3's & 25's and ~10 for Central for the 31, numbers would be made up with current B8's and some B5's.

Any more batches would be allocated to 22's and 44's.

But as i say, it's all canteen talk.

Ahh okay, thanks. How many 25s does Marine have? I was trying to work it out recently and it looked like only a few a day with the majority being Longstone.

 

[scosutsut]

The thought is that if you sell them relatively young then you can get a good price, being either Euro5/6 their more desirable.

I see the logic there. As more LEZ/ULEZ zones spring up (although you'd think Covid will likely delay those) the demand for those types of vehicles will shoot up.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Got bus 175 today, unlike 174, it had the stand behind the line sticker on the floor.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Got bus 175 today, unlike 174, it had the stand behind the line sticker on the floor.

It's got the sign not to sit on the front seats though! (photo of 174 this afternoon)

 

[Bus9120UK]

Following the fire at Amazon Dunfermline, will the contract pause or continue as normal?

 

[OmniCity999]

Following the fire at Amazon Dunfermline, will the contract pause or continue as normal?

considering the fire was yesterday and the buses are still out, i'd assume not, but possibly.

 

[Jordanscot]

Does anyone know of any fleet movements this weekend in advance of tomorrow’s service changes? Looks like a general increase in frequency across the network so should see some movement.
No news on the new stock yet so I presume these aren’t ready for a gradual entry into service from Monday.

 

[route101]

Use PlusBus quite often in Edinburgh, cheaper than buying all day if i come from Glasgow on train. Had no issues until yesterday, got on 26, driver was adamant that it wasn't valid, i showed him the ticket, said PlusBus Edinburgh. Got next 26 and the driver didnt blink an eyelid. I take it drivers dont come across them often?

 

[cammyeaston]

Use PlusBus quite often in Edinburgh, cheaper than buying all day if i come from Glasgow on train. Had no issues until yesterday, got on 26, driver was adamant that it wasn't valid, i showed him the ticket, said PlusBus Edinburgh. Got next 26 and the driver didnt blink an eyelid. I take it drivers dont come across them often?

Perhaps not as often as we'd like but it's been in use for many years. Drivers should know about them. Perhaps worth a little tweet to ask LB to remind their drivers of the product as they may not have seen them for a while.

 

[route101]

Perhaps not as often as we'd like but it's been in use for many years. Drivers should know about them. Perhaps worth a little tweet to ask LB to remind their drivers of the product as they may not have seen them for a while.

I tweeted them, just said it should be valid and driver may of not seen it. The third bus i took the driver asked me what it was, maybe they confuse Plusbus with Firstbus! Had no problems using it with Lothian, id imagine First Glasgow would !

 

[CN04NRJ]

Does anyone know of any fleet movements this weekend in advance of tomorrow’s service changes? Looks like a general increase in frequency across the network so should see some movement.
No news on the new stock yet so I presume these aren’t ready for a gradual entry into service from Monday.

Longstone has about a gazillion 7900s and the 5 B7RLEs, so I doubt there'll be any single deck movements at least.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Giving the Pandemic, what will we expect from Lothian in terms of a festive timetable? Border Buses just released their news as they aren’t running on Christmas, although I’m not sure if that’s just because of this year or they never ran on Christmas prior before