Formula 1

[Geezertronic]

Am I missing something, but from my position of occasional viewer nowadays, does Russell’s performance not demonstrate that Hamilton’s success is largely the car?

I'd suggest that if you put someone like Albon or even Latifi in a Mercedes, then they wouldn't have done as well as Russell.

 

[LOL The Irony]

George showed us why he's a back to back F3 & F2 champion, I can't see Mercedes turning him down in the future.

On another note, Mercedes have a 20,000 euro fine for putting the wrong tyres on George's car.

Russell escapes Sakhir GP disqualification after Mercedes tyre mix-up

George Russell has kept his maiden Formula 1 points after avoiding disqualification for Mercedes' tyre mix-up during the Sakhir Grand Prix

www.autosport.com

Mercedes accidentally fitted tyres belonging to Valtteri Bottas to Russell's car during Sunday's race at the Bahrain International Circuit, forcing the British driver to come back into the pits.

The front two tyres from Bottas' set of mediums were put on Russell's car as Mercedes double-stacked its cars in the pits after a mix-up caused by a radio failure.

It forced Russell into another stop one lap later that dropped him to fifth place, before a fight back up to second and chance for victory was dashed by a late puncture.

Russell eventually crossed the line in ninth place, and also picked up a bonus point for setting the fastest lap of the race, but was at risk of losing them if Mercedes was hit with a penalty.

But the stewards confirmed after a hearing following the race that Mercedes had been fined €20,000 for the infringement, accepting the radio failure as a mitigating circumstance, and that it was not a bid to gain a sporting advantage.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I'd suggest that if you put someone like Albon or even Latifi in a Mercedes, then they wouldn't have done as well as Russell.

It's difficult to rate driver performance when the cars are all so different and although on the face of it Russell doesn't look great having never even scored a point before, he's performed extremely well against his teammates and he was the 2018 F2 champion as well. I was watching an amusing video of Russell, Norris and Albon at the end of their first year and felt sorry for Russell having won F2 but ending up in the worst car of all of them, I was concerned with so much pressure on him in the Mercedes he'd make a mistake or it would just be an underwhelming drive given Bottas doesn't just have more experience with the car but more experience in general but that was a stunning drive. It was gutting to see him lose the race not just once but twice after a stunning recovery, I think Toyota's 2016 Le mans loss was the only time I've felt worse for a loss*

Still it was good to see Perez not just get the win but to do so after an incredible recovery drive given the incident at the start of the race, he certainly worked hard for the win.

* - After a close fought battle that Toyota appeared to have won and would finally give them their first all out win at Le Mans, the engine failed 23 hours and 57 minutes into the race leaving the car sitting dead on the start/finish line of its final lap and wasn't even classified:

 

[EssexGonzo]

I'd suggest that if you put someone like Albon or even Latifi in a Mercedes, then they wouldn't have done as well as Russell.

And we shouldn't forget how the car got to be so good in the first place. The driver does have something to do with that during development, test and ongoing continuous improvement. The best ones don't just turn up on a Friday morning.

I may be wrong, but when Vettel was on his 4-championship streak was there quite as much insistence that "he's got the best car, that must be the reason"? It's almost as if there's something about Hamilton that so many people dislike so much that leads them to dismiss his talent and achievement.

 

[37424]

And we shouldn't forget how the car got to be so good in the first place. The driver does have something to do with that during development, test and ongoing continuous improvement. The best ones don't just turn up on a Friday morning.

I may be wrong, but when Vettel was on his 4-championship streak was there quite as much insistence that "he's got the best car, that must be the reason"? It's almost as if there's something about Hamilton that so many people dislike so much that leads them to dismiss his talent and achievement.

I think there is a fairly obvious reason without stating it.

 

[Darandio]

It's difficult to rate driver performance when the cars are all so different and although on the face of it Russell doesn't look great having never even scored a point before, he's performed extremely well against his teammates and he was the 2018 F2 champion as well. I was watching an amusing video of Russell, Norris and Albon at the end of their first year and felt sorry for Russell having won F2 but ending up in the worst car of all of them,

You say the fact that Russell hasn't ever scored a point doesn't look great, yet you then acknowledge he's been in a terrible car?

There is a lot of talk of him throwing away points in Austria, Imola and even Mugello but none of those were an absolute given that he would have stayed in the points regardless of his errors. There is a fundemental reason why the Williams hasn't scored points this year and it isn't because of George Russell. The fact that he has managed to heave it into Q2 so many times this year is testament to his ability on a Saturday.

 

[JohnMcL7]

You say the fact that Russell hasn't ever scored a point doesn't look great, yet you then acknowledge he's been in a terrible car?

There is a lot of talk of him throwing away points in Austria, Imola and even Mugello but none of those were an absolute given that he would have stayed in the points regardless of his errors. There is a fundemental reason why the Williams hasn't scored points this year and it isn't because of George Russell. The fact that he has managed to heave it into Q2 so many times this year is testament to his ability on a Saturday.

No, I said 'on the face of it' as in general comments made about Russell and his lack of points not what I personally believe which is that he's driven exceptionally well and better than Norris or Albon.

 

[EssexGonzo]

I think there is a fairly obvious reason without stating it.

Yep.

 

[Geezertronic]

And we shouldn't forget how the car got to be so good in the first place. The driver does have something to do with that during development, test and ongoing continuous improvement. The best ones don't just turn up on a Friday morning.

I may be wrong, but when Vettel was on his 4-championship streak was there quite as much insistence that "he's got the best car, that must be the reason"? It's almost as if there's something about Hamilton that so many people dislike so much that leads them to dismiss his talent and achievement.

I think you have nailed it there because when the Ferrari was suggested to be ahead of the Mercs in 2019 (and possibly 2018), Vettel couldn't take advantage of that when possibly others could have. But like at RedBull (with Webber and Ricciardo), Vettel appeared to lose the plot in 2019 and this year against his younger teammate (LeClerc). I am so interested to see what happens next season at Racing Point (Aston Martin?)

 

[D365]

I think there is a fairly obvious reason without stating it.

I really don’t want to believe that people are that shallow. But bearing in mind the number of comments that taking a stand on equality is apparently bringing ”politics” into the sport...

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think there is a fairly obvious reason without stating it.

I really don’t want to believe that people are that shallow. But bearing in mind the number of comments that taking a stand on equality is apparently bringing ”politics” into the sport...

He doesn't help his case when he makes dumb and un-defendable comments. Such as on Black Friday, where he made an unfounded claim on Instagram that it got it's name from the slave trade. He really needs someone to look after his social media accounts.

 

[D365]

He doesn't help his case when he makes dumb and un-defendable comments. Such as on Black Friday, where he made an unfounded claim on Instagram that it got it's name from the slave trade. He really needs someone to look after his social media accounts.

”Help his case” in what sense? I’m not going to comment on his use of social media as I’m hardly an expert myself. But the push for equality, both within sport and the wider world, is not something that should be defined by one man (or woman) alone.

 

[LOL The Irony]

”Help his case” in what sense? I’m not going to comment on his use of social media as I’m hardly an expert myself. But the push for equality, both within sport and the wider world, is not something that should be defined by one man (or woman) alone.

He acts like an idiot sometimes is what I'm trying to say.

 

[gswindale]

He acts like an idiot sometimes is what I'm trying to say.

So does everybody! For instance, I find it hard to take seriously those supposed adults who seem to insist on referring to companies etc. that they personally dislike by what they think are funny jokey names (such as Scamazon for Amazon) or those who insist on using a $ sign when writing Microsoft.

Anyhow, I understand that most of the F1 circus is now in Abu Dhabi (without LH44) - when do we think that Mercedes are going to make a decision over whether GR63 will be racing for them or not?

 

[37424]

I generally supports Lewis efforts on the equality front, but I'm not a massive fan of BLM which has political elements I wouldn't agree with and I think thats a particular problem for some people.

But anyway I have followed F1 for many years and I think he is the best driver that certainly we have had in the UK and I rate him better than Schumacher who had a tendency to push people off the track, maybe Russell will one day be as good if not better but we will have to see.

 

[greatvoyager]

Just saw this...

Lewis Hamilton: Mercedes driver aims to return for season finale

Lewis Hamilton says he is trying to get in shape to return for the final Grand Prix of the season after contracting coronavirus.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Royston Vasey]

I love Lewis and want him to be better, but dude, please don't come back for the Abu Dhabi Derby! Relax for the winter! GR63 has reignited the dead end of season!

 

[Bald Rick]

George showed us why he's a back to back F3 & F2 champion, I can't see Mercedes turning him down in the future.

From what Ross Brawn said being interviewed after the race, Mercedes have him ‘sewn up’ already. 2022.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Also just jumping in, Vettel was hated between 2010 and 2013. I wasn't even into Formula 1 at the time but I remember everyone always spoke about how Seb was extremely arrogant, only won because of the car and then there were incidents like Multi 21. The media didn't like Vettel and Vettel actually got booed at multiple f1 races. Hamilton has never had that happen to him I think.

Everyone loved Lewis Hamilton and Alonso back then as they were the underdogs.

Now that Lewis is winning he suddenly becomes hated and the minute Vettel becomes the underdog everyone likes him.

I think its just the pattern of people hating who is dominant and winning.

 

[Bald Rick]

The media didn't like Vettel and Vettel actually got booed at multiple f1 races. Hamilton has never had that happen to him I think.

He certainly has.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

He certainly has.

I did not know that. Still I think the level of hate Hamilton receives is similar to the level Vettel used to receive.

 

[Darandio]

From what Ross Brawn said being interviewed after the race, Mercedes have him ‘sewn up’ already. 2022.

Of course they have. George is their driver.

 

[JamesT]

Of course they have. George is their driver.

So was Esteban Ocon, though it doesn’t look like he’ll be driving a Mercedes any time soon.
Bottas’ contract with Mercedes runs to the end of 2021, the same as Russell’s with Williams hence the obvious suggestion that Russell would get that seat in 2022.
I’m sure Mercedes would rather have a more formal relationship with another team to be their juniors so they have somewhere for their young drivers to go until a spot appears on the main team.

 

[birchesgreen]

I did not know that. Still I think the level of hate Hamilton receives is similar to the level Vettel used to receive.

I think its similar. Schumacher too got some stick.

One thing which Hamilton does which can wind some people up is be a bit preachy. Some folks don't like sports stars to do that, doesn't bother me personally, i just switch off!

 

[Darandio]

So was Esteban Ocon, though it doesn’t look like he’ll be driving a Mercedes any time soon.

Pascal Wehrlein too. The point was about him being 'sewn up', he's already 'sewn up' by Mercedes because regardless of whether he does get the 2022 seat or not they will decide his next move.

 

[D365]

I generally supports Lewis efforts on the equality front, but I'm not a massive fan of BLM which has political elements I wouldn't agree with and I think thats a particular problem for some people.

But anyway I have followed F1 for many years and I think he is the best driver that certainly we have had in the UK and I rate him better than Schumacher who had a tendency to push people off the track, maybe Russell will one day be as good if not better but we will have to see.

This is exactly how I'd some it up. I wasn't a fan of BLM the organisation before 2020, and I'm not sure if I'd change my mind on this yet.

I think its similar. Schumacher too got some stick.

One thing which Hamilton does which can wind some people up is be a bit preachy. Some folks don't like sports stars to do that, doesn't bother me personally, i just switch off!

What's the alternative though? Look at how the majority of his fellow drivers have commended him for standing up and taking the initiative to lead a change.

The difference with Hamilton in the "GOAT" rankings, is that it could be argued he's one of the greatest for the work he does outside of the car, as well as inside it.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well he can do what he likes, i'm just saying one reason why some folks don't like him.

I don't like him because he wins too much and it gets boring. I stopped watching F1 for about 3 years during Schumacher's domination i've come close this year too heh.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Today is crunch time for Lewis regarding racing in Abu Dhabi. If he can't get a negative corona result, he won't be able to be in the car on Saturday, ruling him out for Sunday.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Haas have condemned 2021 Driver Niketa Mazepin, who has apologised for a now deleted social media video, that saw him inappropriately touch a girl in a car.

They say will deal with the Russian internally.

 

[Geezertronic]

Haas have condemned 2021 Driver Niketa Mazepin, who has apologised for a now deleted social media video, that saw him inappropriately touch a girl in a car.

They say will deal with the Russian internally.

Apparently he has form for not being a nice person by all accounts. Be interesting to see how Mick and particularly Guenther deal with him