[Trivia] Stations on private land

[Mojo]

Public rights of way can be on private land. the public right of way you have quoted traverses the sandy lodge golf course, which certainly is private land. Many public rights of way which transverse station property are also on private land too. So the fact that there is a right of way is completely and utterly irrelevant to weather the station is on private land or not.

Have you actually read the opening post? It is about stations where the access is only via private land that the landowner can withdraw access from. A landowner cannot unilaterally decide to withdraw access from a Public right of way in this instance.

 

[matt_world2004]

Have you actually read the opening post? It is about stations where the access is only via private land that the landowner can withdraw access from. A landowner cannot unilaterally decide to withdraw access from a Public right of way in this instance.

Yes, I have read the opening post. So please tell me how do you get an ERU vehicle down a public footpath. Passengers maybe able to access a station by foot (Although looking at the map of the right of way, it doesnt go up to the station entrance) but for a station to function effectively and safely it needs vehicular access. to maintain it or to respond to emergencies.

 

[Mojo]

Yes, I have read the opening post. So please tell me how do you get an ERU vehicle down a public footpath. Passengers maybe able to access a station by foot (Although looking at the map of the right of way, it doesnt go up to the station entrance) but for a station to function effectively and safely it needs vehicular access. to maintain it or to respond to emergencies.

What’s that got to do with anything? It’s clearly off topic for this thread. If Moor Park estate decided to withdraw its access to the estate roads then the station is still served by a public footpath. It is not in the same league as Terminal 1,2,3 which is fully enclosed by private land.

 

[matt_world2004]

What’s that got to do with anything? It’s clearly off topic for this thread. If Moor Park estate decided to withdraw its access to the estate roads then the station is still served by a public footpath. It is not in the same league as Terminal 1,2,3 which is fully enclosed by private land.

because without vehicular access the station itself would eventually need to close. The non LUL terminals 1,2,3 are owned by the same owner as the surrounding private land

 

[Watershed]

Warwick Parkway is part owned by Warwickshire County Council. A similar situation exists at a number of other stations built in the early privatisation era.

I suppose that puts it in the less common category of being publicly owned land over which there is no public right of way (excepting Network Rail land more generally).

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes, I have read the opening post. So please tell me how do you get an ERU vehicle down a public footpath. Passengers maybe able to access a station by foot (Although looking at the map of the right of way, it doesnt go up to the station entrance) but for a station to function effectively and safely it needs vehicular access. to maintain it or to respond to emergencies.

What is an "ERU"? I am presuming you mean an Emergency Services Vehicle?
If that is the case, then sorry, there is no requirement for any station to be accessible as such, and I am sure we can all cite plenty that aren't. (EG: Dovey Junction). If there was an emergency that required immediate assistance then other means of access will be used, from driving across land not belonging to the railway, to making arrangements to get the train to a accessible point of access like a station, or level crossing.

 

[Mojo]

because without vehicular access the station itself would eventually need to close. The non LUL terminals 1,2,3 are owned by the same owner as the surrounding private land

There is no requirement for vehicular access in any standard.

 

[theironroad]

Yes, I have read the opening post. So please tell me how do you get an ERU vehicle down a public footpath. Passengers maybe able to access a station by foot (Although looking at the map of the right of way, it doesnt go up to the station entrance) but for a station to function effectively and safely it needs vehicular access. to maintain it or to respond to emergencies.

Well I suppose Berney Arms *could* be accessed by an ERU (I'm guessing that means 'emergency response unit'", though the ERU would need to be capable of traversing very wet and flooded fields .

Corrour I believe does have a long track from the road which some vehicles could access.

 

[matt_world2004]

Well I suppose Berney Arms *could* be accessed by an ERU (I'm guessing that means 'emergency response unit'", though the ERU would need to be capable of traversing very wet and flooded fields .

Corrour I believe does have a long track from the road which some vehicles could access.

What is an "ERU"? I am presuming you mean an Emergency Services Vehicle?
If that is the case, then sorry, there is no requirement for any station to be accessible as such, and I am sure we can all cite plenty that aren't. (EG: Dovey Junction). If there was an emergency that required immediate assistance then other means of access will be used, from driving across land not belonging to the railway, to making arrangements to get the train to a accessible point of access like a station, or level crossing.

Emergency response unit of the London underground they are not emergency vehicles but attend emergencies at stations. Sort of look like fire engines. The nearest level crossing

There is no requirement for vehicular access in any standard.

So how do you propose, say a one under is dealt with at moor park, by horse?

 

[DorkingMain]

There are multiple stations on the UK network that don't have any sort of road access. Longcross is the closest one to London I can think of.

I also feel like you're rather inventing ridiculous situations here for the sake of proving a point. Nobody is going to deny road access to emergency response vehicles in any case.

 

[theironroad]

Emergency response unit of the London underground they are not emergency vehicles but attend emergencies at stations. Sort of look like fire engines. The nearest level crossing



So how do you propose, say a one under is dealt with at moor park, by horse?

I think you need to remember that many stations were built long before any current regs on access and accessing stations in London is very different to rural stations.

Were there to be a one under at a very remote station it would be dealt with as professionally and practically as possible including involving use of air, sea and ATV resources as appropriate.

 

[matt_world2004]

I think you need to remember that many stations were built long before any current regs on access and accessing stations in London is very different to rural stations.

Were there to be a one under at a very remote station it would be dealt with as professionally and practically as possible including involving use of air, sea and ATV resources as appropriate.

Yes which is why Moor Park with its combined total of 8 tph would close if the estate withdrew vehicular access to LUL vehicles. the ERU vehicle is not an emergency services vehicle it is not granted the same access to private land as an ambulance , police car or fire engine. its for rerailing derailed carriages or lifting carriages when the fire brigade do not have the equipment or expertise.

 

[urbophile]

I think it came up a while ago that Cressington (& Grassendale for the purists) is in the middle of a private estate with no public road access.

It is in the middle of a private estate, but as far as I know right of way/access - vehicles and pedestrians - is guaranteed for all station users. The park entrance is guarded by impressive gates but I have never seen them closed. Maybe if the park trustees wanted to make a point they could close them on Christmas Day, but I don't think they do. Incidentally Cressington and Grassendale was the station's name in its pre-Merseyrail incarnation: since its reopening in the late 1970s it has had the former name only.

 

[Alex27]

Aren't all stations on private land? Implied permissions can be withdrawn by the landowner (NR or TOC) at anytime I think? Even NR owned stations are still technically private land aren't they? (I may be completely wrong of course)

 

[YorksLad12]

Kirkstall Forge?

The station was built as part of the surrounding development (privately owned). Access from the north (A65) is via the development. Access from the south is via the canal towpath. So you can't access the Network Rail platforms without crossing non-public (as in non-Council) land first. I'm not even sure who owns the station car park as it kept moving sites when I worked on that one...

 

[richard1976]

Fishguard and Goodwick station is owned by Pembrokeshire County Council and not Network Rail

 

[steamybrian]

Spa Valley Railway
High Rocks station can only be accessed through the grounds of the High Rocks Inn. The station platform is on the land owned by the Spa Valley Railway.
Tunbridge Wells West station ( including the locomotive shed) is on land legally owned by Sainsbury's who built their supermarket on the remainder of the former platforms and carriage sidings of the station closed in 1985.

 

[Gostav]

I think Rotherham Parkgate train-tram station (Wiki shows it is a railway station, not a tram stop) is built on the shopping park where is private land？

 

[Gathursty]

Corrour has already been mentioned.
I assume Altnabreac is in the middle of a vast privately owned forestry plantation.
Commondale is only accessible via walking through a farmer's field. The station itself is not private.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Re Moor Park I'm sure I recall from a previous thread about embankment repair on the Redhill to Tonbridge line that landowners are required to let repairs etc to the railway to take place, even if that involves going over private land.

 

[Ianno87]

Manchester Airport

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is Elephant & Castle (NR station) accessible other than through the shopping centre?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Yes which is why Moor Park with its combined total of 8 tph would close if the estate withdrew vehicular access to LUL vehicles. the ERU vehicle is not an emergency services vehicle it is not granted the same access to private land as an ambulance , police car or fire engine. its for rerailing derailed carriages or lifting carriages when the fire brigade do not have the equipment or expertise.

Statutory undertakers such as NR and LUL have a right of access which the estate can't prevent.

Railway Regulation Act, 1842. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/5-6/55/section/14

 

[Grumpy]

Heysham?

 

[Llanigraham]

Emergency response unit of the London underground they are not emergency vehicles but attend emergencies at stations. Sort of look like fire engines. The nearest level crossing



So how do you propose, say a one under is dealt with at moor park, by horse?

So "ERUs" have no relevance on Network Rail. The nearest might be the MOMs units and funnily enough if there is no immediate road access they go to the nearest access point and use Shank's Pony.

I haven't a clue what or where Moor Park is but if it is on NR tracks then see above. I can assure you that access down the cess from the nearest Access Point in emergency situations is quite normal. A good example being when some miscreants were struck by a train at Rumney, Cardiff after a theft from a shop a couple of years ago, and there are plenty of others.

 

[matt_world2004]

So "ERUs" have no relevance on Network Rail. The nearest might be the MOMs units and funnily enough if there is no immediate road access they go to the nearest access point and use Shank's Pony.

I haven't a clue what or where Moor Park is but if it is on NR tracks then see above. I can assure you that access down the cess from the nearest Access Point in emergency situations is quite normal. A good example being when some miscreants were struck by a train at Rumney, Cardiff after a theft from a shop a couple of years ago, and there are plenty of others.

It isn't network rail tracks.

 

[Mojo]

So "ERUs" have no relevance on Network Rail. The nearest might be the MOMs units and funnily enough if there is no immediate road access they go to the nearest access point and use Shank's Pony.

To be fair they are all PTS trained and regularly assist on Network Rail lines in the London area (even those not served by LU) for detrainments, derailments, person under train incidents, fires, infrastructure defects, etc.

However you are quite right in that a lot of cases even on LU infrastructure, if the incident is not at a station, responders will not access via a station as there are plenty of lineside access gates.

 

[SargeNpton]

Thank you all for your suggestions. This has been most useful.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I haven't a clue what or where Moor Park

Moor Park is just outside the Greater London area in Hertfordshire. The station is served by London Underground's Metropolitan Line although Chiltern Trains running to and from Aylesbury run through on separate tracks.

 

[Dai Corner]

I've never been there, but isn't Wrexham Central only accessible through a shopping centre car park and not directly from the public highway?