A couple of Cross Country Q's

[CallySleeperKid]

What is the difference between Cross Country's 220's and 221's? I travelled on a pair joined together from Sheffield to Derby the other day.

Also, what are the beeping noises you sometimes hear over the announce system mean? I have also heard similar on EMT's Meridians.

Cheers.

 

[rail-britain]

I thought you would know the answers to these by now!

Class 220 standard Voyager
Class 221 Voyager with tilt

However, Cross Country have had the tilt mechanism not only disabled but also removed

There are various warning tones that can be heard over the public address
The usual one is the three sequence two tone, advising that someone needs assistance in a toilet
A three sequence high pitch whistle, advising that the Train Manager is required at the office
A three sequence low tone bleep, advising that the Driver wishes to speak to the Train Manager

 

[dave_wm]

Generally, the 220s are 4-car, the 221s are 5-car (although there are some 4-car 221s).

But the main difference is that the 220s used to be non-tilt 'Voyagers', the 221s were tilting 'Super Voyagers', back under Virgin Trains. Thus they had different types of bogie. The tilt on the Cross Country 221s has now been isolated though, so there's not that much difference nowadays.

I think the beeping noises are calls for the train manager to go to a certain place in the train, ie to contact the driver - can't be sure though.

HTH

David

 

[mallard]

For visual identification, the main difference is the bogies, useful to know considering the downright difficult positioning of the TOPS numbers.

Not really related, but how often do voyagers show up on Leicester-Birmingham runs? I was quite surprised to see 220027 waiting for me on Monday as I thought that route was always Turbostars!

 

[MCR247]

The shouldn't do it regularly

 

[stut]

The shouldn't do it regularly

I wish they would!

<applies embrocation to bruised kneecaps>

 

[AeroSpace]

So do the Virgin Super Voyagers tilt then? I can't seem to find out.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes the Virgin 221s tilt on the WCML not sure if they do on the run along to Holyhead.

 

[Legzr1]

Also, what are the beeping noises you sometimes hear over the announce system mean? I have also heard similar on EMT's Meridians.

beep,beep,pause,beep?


Driver to close doors.

 

[rail-britain]

Yes the Virgin 221s tilt on the WCML not sure if they do on the run along to Holyhead

No TASS for tilting, between Crewe and Holyhead

 

[mumrar]

the 220s used to be non-tilt 'Voyagers'

They still are non-tilt Voyagers

 

[ainsworth74]

No TASS for tilting, between Crewe and Holyhead

Yeah I didn't think they did but wasn't sure, thanks!

Just out of curiosity what exactly is TASS, I've heard the term used around but have no idea what it is other than it is needed for tilting, so what is it!?

 

[MCR247]

Just one more question, how come on 220s and 221s they make this sound before the doors close:

beep, pause, beep, beep

It sounds like the driver to guard buzzer

 

[222007]

Just one more question, how come on 220s and 221s they make this sound before the doors close:

beep, pause, beep, beep

It sounds like the driver to guard buzzer

As has been said already its the Train Managers signal to the driver to close the doors when this is done the TM will make sure the doors are all close then gives a further buzz buzz As for the voyagers on the leicester runs it doesnt happen very often but can be as a result of a driver not signing 170's or a 170 failure (in the event of the driver signing voyagers)

 

[MCR247]

Oh, so the driver closes the doors on voyagers? But on most trains which aren't DOO the guard does right?

 

[Wyvern]

TASS is Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision

It is a system of rf transponders(?) called balises mounted in the track at intervals which tell the tilt when and by how much to tilt.

In Europe they are part of other control systems such as ATP. There a description in Wikipedia : Wikipedia: Balise

FOOTNOTE: Ive found another reference which suggest they are adapted from standard ERTMS components:

TASS assures ERTMS-compatible control of tilting trains

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks

 

[voyagerdude220]

Oh, so the driver closes the doors on voyagers? But on most trains which aren't DOO the guard does right?

Yeah the driver closes the doors on Voyagers, once the Train Manager (TM) has instructed them to do so.

The process (once either they have been given the signal to do so by platform staff, or alternatively at an unstaffed station judged it safe to so do theirself) is:

TM puts their key in (and turns it- otherwise no good ) the control panel by the door they are at. Signals 1-2 over the pass com thingy, to tell the driver to close the doors. (Driver repeats the signal back & closes doors)

TM ensures that doors are safely closed- no one trapped etc. Then gets back onto the train, closes their door using the same button which passengers use to close the door. Once closed, TM gives two beeps to the driver to give the ok to proceed, driver repeats back/starts the train moving, and the TM stays by their door as normal to ensure no problems occur as the train pulls out of the station.

All very simple, but the way i've tried to explain it probably makes it look like a very complicated procedure.

 

[Legzr1]

Sometimes TM's forget that a one-way comms system kicks in and the driver can hear every word (in case a TM needs to scream stop etc) - some of the conversations can be funny/incriminating

 

[voyagerdude220]

 

[Pumbaa]

The other difference is the ceiling colour of the vestibules. Both have a horrid plastic covering; 220s have light turquoise blue, 221s have bright purple. (Or other way round - I can't quite remember!)

 

[CallySleeperKid]

The beeps I was refering to have been while the train is moving, usually a few minutes outside a station, but not always. So nothing to do with the doors, so am guessing it could be an alarm from the toilets, or calls to members of staff to report to different areas of the train. I guess without actualy audio clips of the sounds its hard to put them into words.

 

[MCR247]

Is it this one?

NOTE: Not my recording, from the BVE4 class 220

 

[CallySleeperKid]

Is it this one?

NOTE: Not my recording, from the BVE4 class 220

Thats one

 

[Scotrail84]

Yeah the driver closes the doors on Voyagers, once the Train Manager (TM) has instructed them to do so.

The process (once either they have been given the signal to do so by platform staff, or alternatively at an unstaffed station judged it safe to so do theirself) is:

TM puts their key in (and turns it- otherwise no good ) the control panel by the door they are at. Signals 1-2 over the pass com thingy, to tell the driver to close the doors. (Driver repeats the signal back & closes doors)

TM ensures that doors are safely closed- no one trapped etc. Then gets back onto the train, closes their door using the same button which passengers use to close the door. Once closed, TM gives two beeps to the driver to give the ok to proceed, driver repeats back/starts the train moving, and the TM stays by their door as normal to ensure no problems occur as the train pulls out of the station.
All very simple, but the way i've tried to explain it probably makes it look like a very complicated procedure.

That requirement was removed from the rule book. You no longer have to remain at your local door while the train is leaving the platform. AFAIK. Lots of guards still stay there out of habit

 

[CarterUSM]

Does it not still apply to slam door stock?

 

[Scotrail84]

Does it not still apply to slam door stock?

Aye like our fife circles loco hauled stock. Hinging oot the van door pulling oot of P19 haha. Not allowed now thats a no no :cry:

 

[CarterUSM]

Aye like our fife circles loco hauled stock. Hinging oot the van door pulling oot of P19 haha. Not allowed now thats a no no :cry:

Aye, no got the pleasure of slam doors anymore since they took the sleeper off us and the 101's went away. I know plenty that got disciplined for not adhereing to that rule on power operated door stock when it was still in force though.

 

[Scotrail84]

Aye, no got the pleasure of slam doors anymore since they took the sleeper off us and the 101's went away. I know plenty that got disciplined for not adhereing to that rule on power operated door stock when it was still in force though.

Aye it was the same where i work. I usually have ma heed oot the windae as we are leaving anyway can see alot more rather than being stuck at a local door not being able to see whats going on.

 

[rail-britain]

Just one more question, how come on 220s and 221s they make this sound before the doors close:

beep, pause, beep, beep

It sounds like the driver to guard buzzer

Yes, this is a background noise and not played at full volume over the public address
The beeps form part of the driver - guard communication

However, you've probably misses the first bleep and only heard the second one

The guard is advising the driver that the doors are closed and it is safe to depart
The driver then responds confirming that, repeating
Thus bleep-bleep pause bleep-bleep

In slam door stock and in the days before door locks
If a door was opened AFTER the bleep-bleep, the guard could then give single LONG bleep to the driver, who would then apply the emergency brake, and once stop respond with another LONG bleep
However, the door was often then closed before the driver could respond, in which case the guard could then return a further bleep-bleep, the driver could then release the emergency brake and then respond with a bleep-bleep
In these cases the guard would then storm off to have stern words with the offender that opened the door after the train had started to move off

There are loads of other codes, many are now redundant
They were also often known as the bell codes