Rename Deansgate?

[Ianno87]

Has the railway station ever officially been known as "Deansgate G-Mex"? Thought it has just been "Deansgate" since the 1970's?

No - the GMex appendage has never been official.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No - the GMex appendage has never been official.

Thanks for confirming.

Similarly, don't think it was ever officially previously known just as "Knott Mill" station (notwithstanding what the signage above the main frontage might suggest).

Think it was "Knott Mill and Deansgate" station pre 1971. The name change would have been around the time that the conversion from DC to AC electrification took place.

 

[xotGD]

How about "Manchester Haçienda"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about "Manchester Haçienda"?

If I recall that is (was) closer to Oxford Road.

 

[Purple Orange]

Perhaps Manchester needs to be more inventive with the names of it’s stations. After all, London has a station named after a bear and an ABBA song, however both have a station named after Victoria Wood!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps Manchester needs to be more inventive with the names of it’s stations. After all, London has a station named after a bear and an ABBA song, however both have a station named after Victoria Wood!

There was of course a (light hearted) suggestion that St Pancras should be renamed London Agincourt!

 

[Wolfie]

Glasgow Charing Cross
Glasgow Argyle Street
Glasgow Anderston
Glasgow High Street

Given that there is London Charing Cross the first at least would make sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that there is London Charing Cross the first at least would make sense.

They all make sense. All of them are stations in Glasgow city centre.

FWIW, the German prefixing is done these days with a subscript, so where they are prefixing stations that are just in that conurbation it looks more like:

Manchester Stockport

I don't overly support going this far, as "Manchester Stockport" is clearly a bit silly, but is the following:

Manchester Deansgate

or even:

Manchester Salford Central

...that ridiculous, and does highlight that they are stations serving Manchester city centre? Yes, you can debate if that's a bit inaccurate, but it's really no different from the fact that almost none of the (already prefixed) London termini are actually in the City of London?

Comparable example from Hamburg:

Hamburg Dammtor sign

The Altonaer Verbindungsbahn is, other than being 4-track (we wish), very comparable with Castlefield - it runs along the city centre with the Hbf being there but also some less important stations - Dammtor is perhaps an Oxford Road equivalent, being very near the university (as the signage shows).

Another one:

Bremen-Schoenebeck sign with subscripting

 

[Wolfie]

There was of course a (light hearted) suggestion that St Pancras should be renamed London Agincourt!

What's wrong with London Crecy?

 

[telstarbox]

I don't think it needs to be changed other than aligning it with the Metrolink station. Deansgate is a well known part of the city centre even if the station is mostly "for local people".

 

[Mikey C]

Manchester Deansgate would seem logical, seeing that the station is within central Manchester and the next station along is Manchester Oxford Road

Salford isn't in "Manchester" though so the Salford fundamentalists would get grumpy if the station was renamed Manchester Salford Central

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester Deansgate would seem logical, seeing that the station is within central Manchester and the next station along is Manchester Oxford Road

Salford isn't in "Manchester" though so the Salford fundamentalists would get grumpy if the station was renamed Manchester Salford Central

Other than London is there another city (big contiguous built up area) where the centre is made up of more than one city (political construct)?

I don't think "Camden Euston" or "Lambeth Waterloo" would be helpful names

I also think most people would consider that, say, Old Trafford was in Manchester even if it's actually technically in Trafford. And I doubt the people of Bootle and Crosby shout about living in Sefton, they'd say they live in Liverpool even though they don't live in the political construct named the "City of Liverpool".

To be fair, any confusion that Salford Central may or may not cause would probably be solved by putting a subtext of "For <whatever things in Manchester city centre are the nearest>" on the signage. It could however do with being part of Manchester Stations for fares purposes, as it is, if you look on a map, clearly the 5th Manchester city centre station, and there is therefore the potential for people travelling from the east to assume it's part of the group and end up with a PF.

 

[randyrippley]

Manchester Deansgate would seem logical, seeing that the station is within central Manchester and the next station along is Manchester Oxford Road

Salford isn't in "Manchester" though so the Salford fundamentalists would get grumpy if the station was renamed Manchester Salford Central

Salford Central might be central for Salford - but not for Manchester.
You'd have to rename it Manchester Salford Off-Centre

 

[Bletchleyite]

Salford Central might be central for Salford - but not for Manchester.
You'd have to rename it Manchester Salford Off-Centre

None of the Manchester stations are actually central for Manchester city centre, they are, Salford Central included, in a ring around the boundary of it (except the east side) - indeed, in effect, they provide a belt most of the way round that de-facto prevents it expanding significantly.

Which one it makes sense to use, if your service gives you that choice, depends on what exactly you're going there for. Victoria to Deansgate (the greatest distance apart as the crow flies, though due to the road layout Victoria to Oxford Road may actually be a longer walk) is considerably over a mile.

 

[Trackman]

Salford Central might be central for Salford - but not for Manchester.
You'd have to rename it Manchester Salford Off-Centre

Is Salford Central actually in the centre of Salford?
Looking at a map for the Salford area (not the city), Salford Crescent looks more central.

Deansgate is a well known part of the city centre even if the station is mostly "for local people".

Like Hadfield?

 

[Wolfie]

Other than London is there another city (big contiguous built up area) where the centre is made up of more than one city (political construct)?

I don't think "Camden Euston" or "Lambeth Waterloo" would be helpful names

I also think most people would consider that, say, Old Trafford was in Manchester even if it's actually technically in Trafford. And I doubt the people of Bootle and Crosby shout about living in Sefton, they'd say they live in Liverpool even though they don't live in the political construct named the "City of Liverpool".

To be fair, any confusion that Salford Central may or may not cause would probably be solved by putting a subtext of "For <whatever things in Manchester city centre are the nearest>" on the signage. It could however do with being part of Manchester Stations for fares purposes, as it is, if you look on a map, clearly the 5th Manchester city centre station, and there is therefore the potential for people travelling from the east to assume it's part of the group and end up with a PF.

Conversely there is no way that anyone in Coventry or the Black Country would say that they live in Birmingham.

 

[Purple Orange]

Just because Salford Central is in the Salford borough doesn’t mean it shouldn’t reference Manchester. Manchester Exchange was on the Salford side of the Irwell after all. Most of Salford is called “Manchester”, but I wouldn’t change it’s name. I’d rid the network of long distance intercity traffic and just have 5 city centre stations as a centre of a metro network that extends to Liverpool, Blackpool. North Wales, Leeds, the Airport, Crewe, Buxton & Stoke.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2020 ==

Other than London is there another city (big contiguous built up area) where the centre is made up of more than one city (political construct)?

I don't think "Camden Euston" or "Lambeth Waterloo" would be helpful names

I also think most people would consider that, say, Old Trafford was in Manchester even if it's actually technically in Trafford. And I doubt the people of Bootle and Crosby shout about living in Sefton, they'd say they live in Liverpool even though they don't live in the political construct named the "City of Liverpool".

To be fair, any confusion that Salford Central may or may not cause would probably be solved by putting a subtext of "For <whatever things in Manchester city centre are the nearest>" on the signage. It could however do with being part of Manchester Stations for fares purposes, as it is, if you look on a map, clearly the 5th Manchester city centre station, and there is therefore the potential for people travelling from the east to assume it's part of the group and end up with a PF.

I’d say Newcastle (with Gateshead) and Manchester (with Salford & Trafford) apply in the same way.

 

[randyrippley]

Like Hadfield?

That's going to go over a lot of heads
Is there a direct service to Royston Vasey from Deansgate?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Conversely there is no way that anyone in Coventry or the Black Country would say that they live in Birmingham.

True, but Cov is a distinct city with green nothingness between it and Brum. Whereas Salford, while legally its own city, is physically part of the same contiguous built-up area as Manchester, and is really not very dissimilar to claiming that you didn't live in London because you lived in the City of Westminster.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2020 ==

That's going to go over a lot of heads
Is there a direct service to Royston Vasey from Deansgate?

Unfortunately not, the Hadfields run from the main trainshed at Picc

 

[edwin_m]

The naming of Greater Manchester in 1974 was a bit anomalous - as well as the Birmingham situation above, think of the outcry in Bradford and elsewhere if anyone had proposed "Greater Leeds"! Having worked on projects in all three I get the impression the animosity to the largest city within the rest of the county isn't so significant in Manchester - if so I'm not sure if that is because of the naming or the reason for it, or totally unrelated.

But it does seem to me ridiculous to think every station in Greater Manchester should be prefixed Greater Manchester, or even worse just Manchester. The German approach of attaching a city name to any station within the boundary seems over the top to me - using a random UK example someone going to central Manchester shouldn't be alighting at "Manchester Eccles" (or even "Salford Eccles" which is its council area) and if they need to know where Eccles is a few moments on a smartphone will tell them.

Probably however the prefix is valid for somewhere like Deansgate which is a short walk from the city centre. Which raises the question of whether to rename Salford Central, which isn't much further, but I think I'd keep it the same because the other side of the river is a distinct district and anyone wanting Manchester and unsure how to get there is probably best alighting at Victoria.

While we're about it, can we rename Deansgate Junction too? I always get that one wrong, Timperley Junction would be far better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it does seem to me ridiculous to think every station in Greater Manchester should be prefixed Greater Manchester, or even worse just Manchester. The German approach of attaching a city name to any station within the boundary seems over the top to me - using a random UK example someone going to central Manchester shouldn't be alighting at "Manchester Eccles" (or even "Salford Eccles" which is its council area) and if they need to know where Eccles is a few moments on a smartphone will tell them.

Yes, to be fair I do think this is one of the things DB probably got wrong.

Probably however the prefix is valid for somewhere like Deansgate which is a short walk from the city centre. Which raises the question of whether to rename Salford Central, which isn't much further, but I think I'd keep it the same because the other side of the river is a distinct district and anyone wanting Manchester and unsure how to get there is probably best alighting at Victoria.

I sort of see that point, and Salford Central is a bit of an oddity in that regard - it's likely that if you want there, you probably already know you do, and it's pretty much only served by trains that Germany would refer to as S-Bahn (to which they tend not to apply the prefixing). Notably, though, Deansgate was the only station in Manchester I had ever been to until about age 14 or so, as the Museum nearby was the main likely destination, given that Liverpool has most other things that Manchester has. So I actually had no idea the underground concrete car park that is Victoria even really existed, nor the impressive Piccadilly trainshed. I think that means Deansgate probably is deserving of the prefix.

With regard to Salford Central, though, I think if you think back to the 90s the area around it was a bit of a wasteland (even more so than Victoria). Manchester city centre hasn't really grown, belted-in as it is by the railways and the Mancunian Way, but what it has done is progressively made better use of the bits which were borderline (or actually) derelict, and that has meant a shift north and more of a role for Salford Central, unless I suppose you worked at the Granada Studios for which it's always been a nearby station.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can I remind posters that the topic of this thread is "Rename Deansgate".

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then please can they start a new thread in the appropriate section.

Thanks.

 

[Greybeard33]

While we're about it, can we rename Deansgate Junction too? I always get that one wrong, Timperley Junction would be far better.

Deansgate Junction is named after Deansgate Lane, which is the road over the adjacent level crossing. Surely it has equal rights to the name as the Deansgate in Manchester? The junction is a long way from Timperley Village (as is the eponymous Metrolink station).

Incidentally, I understand that the Deansgate Lane crossing is unique in having strings of dangly bells across the road, to indicate the safe height under the OLE.

Just around the curve from Deansgate Junction is Skelton Junction, which I believe has a namesake in Yorkshire!

 

[YorksLad12]

Don't Oxford Road, Piccadilly, and Victoria all have terminating services, whereas Deansgate doesn't? That would explain the lack of a Manchester prefix. Well, it does to me. Yes, I know that that doesn't always apply everywhere (London Moorgate).

I'd leave it as-is, if only because of the cost and the inconvenience of having to update everything.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looks like the location of Deansgate has been moved according to this Northern timetable...

https://d11vpqhghel6qd.cloudfront.n...ster-airport-local-stopping-services-3999.pdf

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't Oxford Road, Piccadilly, and Victoria all have terminating services, whereas Deansgate doesn't? That would explain the lack of a Manchester prefix. Well, it does to me. Yes, I know that that doesn't always apply everywhere (London Moorgate).

That isn't the reason.

Looks like the location of Deansgate has been moved according to this Northern timetable...

https://d11vpqhghel6qd.cloudfront.n...ster-airport-local-stopping-services-3999.pdf

Oops

 

[londonteacher]

A reasonable way to draw the line in London is "anything in Zone 1".

Right, so London Elephant and Castle, London Vauxhall and London Old Street?

Why?

The London stations are fine as they are. The above changes would not benefit anyone in my opinion. Otherwise, with Crossrail we would have London Tottenham Court Road and London Bond Street.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2021 ==

A change to Deansgate's name could be justified to something like Deansgate for Manchester which highlights the fact that it is not the main station.

 

[py_megapixel]

A change to Deansgate's name could be justified to something like Deansgate for Manchester which highlights the fact that it is not the main station.

That just sounds utterly stupid though, because Deansgate is a road which is already in Manchester!

The equivalent in London would be something along the lines of "Blackfriars for London".... clearly daft, because Blackfriars is in Central London by any measure you like, pretty much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Right, so London Elephant and Castle, London Vauxhall and London Old Street?

Yes.

Why?

Because they are stations serving central London, like Deansgate is a station serving central Manchester.

A change to Deansgate's name could be justified to something like Deansgate for Manchester which highlights the fact that it is not the main station.

It's a regional main station, though not the "Hbf". It's the one you would want to use (if your train stops there) for a number of key things in Manchester city centre, e.g. the Museum of Science and Industry and shopping at that end of Deansgate.

 

[Ianno87]

Deansgate does seem to suffer from a bit of "under-awareness" of its location and places it is particularly convenient for. For example, it's a relatively easy walk up Deansgate itself to reach the Kendals/King Street shopping area.

What also doesn't help this is not everything stopping, e.g. trains from the Bolton direction are only about 50/50 stopping and non-stopping. So people might get off if the train just happens to stop, but will travel back from another station for a greater choice of services.