Why don't the UK TOCs have an "audio brand"?

[LowLevel]

Skip to 2:30

That's a standard Bombardier bing bong, several trains in Europe also use it.

 

[317666]

I always liked ÖBB's station announcement jingle. Alas, it's just been replaced by a new, vastly inferior one!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Some of the suggestions here sound like introducing regional indent themes similar to the old ITV days like Southern,Westward,Granada and Yorkshire TV etc. Perhaps for Anglia the late Nicholas Parsons could have made the pre-recorded announcements,"From Norwich its the 1028 arrival!"
My smilies don't work so I'll just slope off quietly.

 

[pdeaves]

If a special chime is used, I think it should only be used to distinguish important announcements (platform/time/calling points-type information) from blah blah stuff. However, people being what they are, I wouldn't trust 'them' not to consider everything super-important, which would completely negate its use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If a special chime is used, I think it should only be used to distinguish important announcements (platform/time/calling points-type information) from blah blah stuff. However, people being what they are, I wouldn't trust 'them' not to consider everything super-important, which would completely negate its use.

I'd personally remove the "blah blah" stuff entirely. Static information should be displayed on posters, not using the PIS.

 

[LLivery]

That's a standard Bombardier bing bong, several trains in Europe also use it.

I didn't realise this as the HSTs use it too.

FWIW I quite liked the WCML Mk3 "guitar strum", shame the Pendolino got a horrid piercing ding-dong instead.

features it.

I was on a Greater Anglia to Norwich once and they alternated between this sound and the MML one for each stop. Quite nice.

 

[pdeaves]

I'd personally remove the "blah blah" stuff entirely. Static information should be displayed on posters, not using the PIS.

Agree entirely. I don't see that happening any time soon, unfortunately.

 

[py_megapixel]

I'd personally remove the "blah blah" stuff entirely. Static information should be displayed on posters, not using the PIS.

Agree entirely. I don't see that happening any time soon, unfortunately.

Slightly OT, but are there any statistics available publicly about how many people actually bother texting 61016, what about, and how many texts are disregarded because they are jokes or complaints about the announcements? If not, I might put in an FOI request to BTP.

 

[Mat17]

I really miss the old BR jingle before announcements, actually I miss the Phil Sayer announcements too.

Is the BR jingle still used anywhere?

York always stood out in the early 2000s, they had their own two-tone jingle, sounded like nothing else, well not the other stations I was using anyhow.

As for the original question, I'd rather stations cut back on the constant announcements. I get why they do them, but too much simply becomes background noise that you tune out and become oblivious to. Thereby negating the whole point of doing it in the first place!

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we could find a way to deal with the accessibility issue that would pose, I'd be well in support of adopting a "silent terminal" approach with only serious out of course running being announced.

 

[py_megapixel]

New thread created here to discuss the possibility of "quiet zones" being introduced at stations - something which was inspired by the discussion on this thread but which would probably drag it too far off topic to bring up in detail here.

 

[Parallel]

I think that one is a 175 (Coradia) thing, pre-dating ATW with First North Western.
Maybe on 180s too (haven't been on one for ages).
Might even be an Alstom thing (French of course).

To my knowledge, it was an ATW thing as they rolled it out on their 158s too but subsequently removed it.

It is currently still on 175s for the ‘we will be calling at’ and the ‘where this train will terminate’ announcements.

The PIS Connex installed played that when a train was going to run through non-stop.

This is still at Norwood Junction, West Croydon and a few others around there that are now operated by London Overground.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The DB jingle sounds that way because the Germans have a different scale to us. What we call B flat, they call B; what we call B, they call H.

So if DB ever runs through the Channel Tunnel, I hope the jingle will change to an unflattened B as the train emerges into Kent.

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

The French announcement tones are very distinctive but seems to go with the trains - South Korean high speed trains are a straight copy of the TGV and to my surprise also used the SNCF tones.

I'm always surprised to hear tones a *bit* like the SNCF sting inside TGVs - similar, but inferior. Surely they could have got the real thing? I think the answer here as robustly pointed out earlier is that there are too many TOCs and they don't last long enough. I used to like SWT's NBC chimes, but it wasn't really branding as such. Much better than ATOS Anne's cheap door chime. I would expect TfL and ScotRail to be large and permanent enough to have thought about this. I'm very surprised that TfL doesn't have anything. In Paris, RATP does. The (very) long versions of the SNCF and RATP music are rather fabulous.

 

[43096]

If we could find a way to deal with the accessibility issue that would pose, I'd be well in support of adopting a "silent terminal" approach with only serious out of course running being announced.

Which is exactly what Gatwick Airport do, and is the right answer, as any announcement is then listened to.

 

[py_megapixel]

If we could find a way to deal with the accessibility issue that would pose, I'd be well in support of adopting a "silent terminal" approach with only serious out of course running being announced.

Which is exactly what Gatwick Airport do, and is the right answer, as any announcement is then listened to.

I'm not entirely sold on that approach myself, but it would really help if staff would just leave the pre-recorded announcements alone unless they're doing something completely wrong. The vast majority of the time, however boring it may sound, Celia Drummond or Atos Anne does a far clearer and more accurate job of announcing trains than a member of platform staff bellowing into the mic ever could, and staff don't need to repeat the announcements that have already been made automatically.

Of course, when the automated system screws up, the staff need to take over, but that should be in the form of silencing the automated system and performing all announcements manually, not making additional announcements that contradict it.

 

[Clip]

So, how come both other countries' railways and other businesses think it is worthwhile?

I have no idea why other state operators use them but they don't use a different one for each line do they? Or do SNCF just have one jingle which is used all over?

As for other businesses that use jingles in TV and radio advertising is because they're catchy things so when you're in the supermarket or whatever it comes in to your head and you buy their product and not another- I would've thought that was obvious but the railway doesn't operate like that.

Of course, there are only 2 operators. LNER and Avanti

And from Edinburgh to Glasgow?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have no idea why other state operators use them but they don't use a different one for each line do they? Or do SNCF just have one jingle which is used all over?

SNCF uses the same one everywhere.

I'm not entirely sold on that approach myself, but it would really help if staff would just leave the pre-recorded announcements alone unless they're doing something completely wrong. The vast majority of the time, however boring it may sound, Celia Drummond or Atos Anne does a far clearer and more accurate job of announcing trains than a member of platform staff bellowing into the mic ever could, and staff don't need to repeat the announcements that have already been made automatically.

Someone tell that to LNR guards, who just love talking over the Desiro autoannouncer even though it's generally correct.

Which is exactly what Gatwick Airport do, and is the right answer, as any announcement is then listened to.

It was going to be trialled at Manchester Piccadilly, and I have a feeling it was for a very short time, but disability rights campaigners pointed out that it was an issue for blind people. The question is whether there is another option, as blind people use airports as well as railway stations.

 

[Trackman]

I really miss the old BR jingle before announcements, actually I miss the Phil Sayer announcements too.

Is the BR jingle still used anywhere?

For some reason the old BR jingle reminds me of Deltics, must be an ECML thing.

I've got some electronic device that makes a similar sound to the jingle, I cant remember if it's my phone or something.

 

[BayPaul]

I have no idea why other state operators use them but they don't use a different one for each line do they? Or do SNCF just have one jingle which is used all over?

As for other businesses that use jingles in TV and radio advertising is because they're catchy things so when you're in the supermarket or whatever it comes in to your head and you buy their product and not another- I would've thought that was obvious but the railway doesn't operate like that.

A good brand can help you as a customer to trust a business, improving your satisfaction at your experience, and giving you a better overall impression, as well as encouraging additional purchases. I don't see any reason why a TOC shouldn't be any different at benefiting from a high-quality brand. A jingle can be part of a strong brand, especially for a brand like a TOC that has various opportunities to use it. No, it probably won't directly make you want to buy another ticket, but if you have a particularly strong impression of say the GWR brand, so it sticks in your head, perhaps next time you are booking an advance ticket, you will visit the GWR website, rather than go to Trainline.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For some reason the old BR jingle reminds me of Deltics, must be an ECML thing.

Reminds me of cold mornings at Aughton Park on the way to school, where you'd get a few beeps, other odd noises, then "Bong bing bing" and a barely-audible apology, as the "old greaser" (Class 501-derived Sandite and de-icing unit) rattled through in place of the expected train, leaving a freezing-cold 15 minute wait. (In the early 90s it tended to run in the path of a service train which was cancelled).

 

[Clip]

A good brand can help you as a customer to trust a business, improving your satisfaction at your experience, and giving you a better overall impression, as well as encouraging additional purchases. I don't see any reason why a TOC shouldn't be any different at benefiting from a high-quality brand. A jingle can be part of a strong brand, especially for a brand like a TOC that has various opportunities to use it. No, it probably won't directly make you want to buy another ticket, but if you have a particularly strong impression of say the GWR brand, so it sticks in your head, perhaps next time you are booking an advance ticket, you will visit the GWR website, rather than go to Trainline.

I think you are under the mistaken belief that I don't understand what branding is.

I can assure you I do. However there is nothing that a bell jingle will ever achieve for branding purposes on our multi TOC railway.

The problem with your comparison of GWR and Trainline is moot as Trainline have a long established nationwide identity which the average punter knows about as TOCs advertising on television is poor due to the costs and TOCs advertising is very localised.

You probably wouldn't know you could get a train from Blackpool until you saw a nicely branded Avanti train in the platform as there's very little inside the station to let you know. And a jingle isn't going to change that

 

[Ashley Hill]

Themes are OK on adverts but not for announcements. Imagine a five second burst of a jingle before every announcement,auto or otherwise,you'd soon get cheesed off with it after a few stations. On a multi-TOC station you'd be driven insane!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Themes are OK on adverts but not for announcements. Imagine a five second burst of a jingle before every announcement,auto or otherwise,you'd soon get cheesed off with it after a few stations. On a multi-TOC station you'd be driven insane!

I'm not thinking of a song, just a few notes. The famous Nestle one is only 4 notes, but I bet you would recognise it even if you didn't know what it was for!

 

[BayPaul]

I'm not thinking of a song, just a few notes. The famous Nestle one is only 4 notes, but I bet you would recognise it even if you didn't know what it was for!

I worked on a ship that had a lovely deep 'bong' as the start of all of its announcements. It sounds silly, but it matched the dark colour scheme of the carpets, the subdued lighting, and the brushed aluminium signage very nicely, building up a real feel of a quality product. Subtle, clever branding like this really works, and isn't at all intrusive, in fact quite the reverse

 

[pdeaves]

I'm not thinking of a song, just a few notes. The famous Nestle one is only 4 notes, but I bet you would recognise it even if you didn't know what it was for!

I'm not familiar with Nestle advertising. Do I presume this is something like the 'Intel inside' ident?

 

[BayPaul]

I think you are under the mistaken belief that I don't understand what branding is.

I can assure you I do. However there is nothing that a bell jingle will ever achieve for branding purposes on our multi TOC railway.

The problem with your comparison of GWR and Trainline is moot as Trainline have a long established nationwide identity which the average punter knows about as TOCs advertising on television is poor due to the costs and TOCs advertising is very localised.

You probably wouldn't know you could get a train from Blackpool until you saw a nicely branded Avanti train in the platform as there's very little inside the station to let you know. And a jingle isn't going to change that

I completely agree that a jingle won't change it - but a well built brand will, and a bell jingle can be (admittedly a very small part) of that. The reason the Trainline has an established identity is because they have built that brand - given time, willing and a decent concept, any company can do the same. I happen to think that GWR's branding is pretty strong for a TOC - the dark traditional colour scheme matches the '5 go' advertising well - it's just a shame that the interior of the trains really does not. I'm not in advertising, but I'm sure a suitable noise could be found (a seagull?) that would similarly emphasise seaside holidays nicely on announcements. The example I gave above of from a ship is a good example of how a simple tone helped build up the quality feel of the brand.

 

[Horizon22]

I always liked the jingle at New Street back in the 2000s as per this video

There never seemed to be a particular standard for it nationwide though, different places had different jingles and apart from in some locations where they indicate a manual announcement being made they're nearly extinct I think. Even Worksop Station used to have it's own little jingle until recently

I think the British habit of spamming you to death with announcements has rendered them unnecessary because it is more unusual for a station to be quiet.

I once sat at Derby Station at gone 10 at night waiting to work a train forward and I could see no one else on the platform. There was just a constant stream of audio bollocks playing to no one in particular. Security. Engineering work this weekend. Mind out, it's wet (it wasn't). Don't struggle on the stairs, there's lifts.

That's the jingle I most recognise as well and remember it well at New Street - did the redevelopment put an end to this or was it already on its way out?

 

[RailAleFan]

I'd love to see/hear audio alert and CIS style consistency across the UK network.

I had the SNCF jingle as my SMS alert tone on an old mobile phone for years!

How about the 4 notes of "age of the train"?

I'll never forget the The Olympic Audio Logo scene from Twenty Twelve...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not familiar with Nestle advertising. Do I presume this is something like the 'Intel inside' ident?

Yep, that sort of thing, a very short jingle right at the end of the advert. Nestle use it to bring their various brands together (as almost nothing is sold purely as "Nestle").

That's the jingle I most recognise as well and remember it well at New Street - did the redevelopment put an end to this or was it already on its way out?

It went when they switched to Atos Annie, I think. Don't quite know when that was.

The old "Bri-tish Rail" one was the first 3 tones of that.

I worked on a ship that had a lovely deep 'bong' as the start of all of its announcements. It sounds silly, but it matched the dark colour scheme of the carpets, the subdued lighting, and the brushed aluminium signage very nicely, building up a real feel of a quality product. Subtle, clever branding like this really works, and isn't at all intrusive, in fact quite the reverse

I think there's something in that - the fairly restful Mk3 "strum" might well help put the listener in a more calm mood than the piercing Pendolino "electronic doorbell".