Police checking travel

[PHILIPE]

I haven't heard anything yet of the Police apprehending Boris for travelling to a new vaccination Centre at Bristol for a photo shoot and getting in the way of the busy staff working there. Just heard of the visit on BBC TV. Surely the man should set an example as I'm certain the trip wasn't necessary.

Add a large entourage of security bods as well out on an unnecessary mission

 

[SteveM70]

Now that the fines have been dropped and an apology issued, how do Hancock and the Chief Constable explain their backing of the idiot officers?

“Based on information available.......uff uff uff......now a clearer picture.......however the wider issue is clear re enforcement”

That’s the normal way

 

[joncombe]

“Based on information available.......uff uff uff......now a clearer picture.......however the wider issue is clear re enforcement”

That’s the normal way

Yes I don't really understand this.

You need a valid reason to leave home. Exercise is a valid reason. The law allows you to travel in order to exercise and does not specify a distance.

The guidance suggests you should keep local, I.E. local village, town or part of city. However the guidance is not law. The fine those two women got was cancelled and they had travelled I think 7 miles. Now the Government seems to be suggesting they weren't following the "rules" and should have been fined. So should they have been fined or not. And if so, under what law?

As I said I am confused as I thought the police could only enforce the law not guidance. After all there is guidance I should not drink 50 pints of beer in a week, but if I did, I'd not expect the police to come knocking on the door.

In addition Boris was seen cycling in the Olympic park and Government are suggesting that was all OK. I am not clear if he cycled directly from Downing Street or travelled there by some either means first. Either way however he is not exercising in his local part of the city, which seems to be against the guidance as he is in another borough and would have had to travel through at least one other borough to get there. I don't know the total distance he cycled, but he could have cycled any distance within the borough of Westminster (e.g. by going round a loop multiple times).

As long as you travel for the purpose of exercise can you be legally fined (and the fine upheld) if you travel to exercise and under what distance? 1 mile? 5 miles? 50 miles? I suspect the answer is no.

 

[VauxhallandI]

My brother had a policemen at his home the other day. He has two houses one in Scotland and one in England.

The police said they “were just driving past” when they saw the Scottish parking permit in the window.

Well said small permit was on the hedge side of a small road on the outskirts of a small village in Cumbria.

Me thinks that was a lie and it was a nosey person ringing them up. My brother asked them where they had come from and it was 18 miles and 30 mins away

Anyway nothing to see as he has been there since mid December. They asked if he had been to Scotland.

Such resources these police have extra officers needed for years I’d say.

 

[bramling]

My brother had a policemen at his home the other day. He has two houses one in Scotland and one in England.

The police said they “were just driving past” when they saw the Scottish parking permit in the window.

Well said small permit was on the hedge side of a small road on the outskirts of a small village in Cumbria.

Me thinks that was a lie and it was a nosey person ringing them up. My brother asked them where they had come from and it was 18 miles and 30 mins away

Anyway nothing to see as he has been there since mid December. They asked if he had been to Scotland.

Such resources these police have extra officers needed for years I’d say.

Does sound like a snitching. One wonders what proportion of people snitching are driven by annoyance (or, perhaps more accurately, jealousy) over second homes, rather than genuine concern about virus spreading?

 

[VauxhallandI]

Does sound like a snitching. One wonders what proportion of people snitching are driven by annoyance (or, perhaps more accurately, jealousy) over second homes, rather than genuine concern about virus spreading?

Well there was a parking incident when dog walkers in two cars blocked in one of their cars. They were asked if they could just move a little so their car could get out and one them got out of a car and got all arsenal about.

Lovely country folk! However the neighbour did say he thought is was some grumpy farmers wife from up the road.

Maybe I won’t be rushing up there for a long weekend anytime soon...

 

[6862]

The police have reached a new low.

BBC News - Covid: Couple fined for seven-mile trip to care home https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55634751

Sorry can't embed link properly from my phone.

A couple have been fined £60 for driving 20 minutes to see a relative in a care home.
Carol and David Richards from Bridgend travelled seven miles to Porthcawl to visit her mother Decima Minhinnick, 94.
Mrs Richards said she was "mortified" they were stopped by police while returning on Sunday from what she said was a compassionate visit.
South Wales Police defended the fine, citing Covid rules which say people should stay at home.
The couple said they did not believe they breached lockdown rules and have made a complaint to the Independent Office for Police Conduct.

 

[SteveM70]

One man’s “pedantic and inflexible” is another man’s “accurate and consistent”

I’m not close to the Welsh law and guidance, but ultimately it’s not the police’s job to make the rules, it’s their job to enforce them. If what they did is against the defined rules, then they’re bang to rights. If it’s against guidance, we’re into murkier waters

 

[py_megapixel]

If it’s against guidance, we’re into murkier waters

We're not.

If it's law, then they should be enforcing it. No question.

If it's guidance, but not law, then they should not be enforcing it. Again, no question.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just seen on BBC Wales TV a report of a black man dying in custody last Friday in a Cardiff police station and that approx 300 Black Lives Matter demonstrated in a protest today. I saw a police presence but what do you think they were doing ? Standing watching !!!
In addition to the numbers there they must have travelled to get there.

 

[devon_metro]

My brother had a policemen at his home the other day. He has two houses one in Scotland and one in England.

The police said they “were just driving past” when they saw the Scottish parking permit in the window.

Well said small permit was on the hedge side of a small road on the outskirts of a small village in Cumbria.

Me thinks that was a lie and it was a nosey person ringing them up. My brother asked them where they had come from and it was 18 miles and 30 mins away

Anyway nothing to see as he has been there since mid December. They asked if he had been to Scotland.

Such resources these police have extra officers needed for years I’d say.

Travel to attend to a property or perform maintenance would be a valid reason to travel between Scotland and England anyway!

 

[Wychwood93]

What chance they nip into 10 Downing Street at around 17.00 - it seems that many people who are there around that time are non-resident? Today we had a serving Police Officer, a certain Priti Patel and another chap I hadn't seen before. Get Derbyshire Police on the case!

 

[initiation]

Good spot from the 5pm conference from this barrister on twitter. Priti going on about how everyone knows the rules so obey them... Then goes on to say outdoor recreation is allowed. Ffs

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/1349053559745216521?s=19

Home Secretary: "The rules are very simple and clear... only leave home for a very very limited number of reasons... outdoor recreation but in a very very restricted and limited way" Outdoor recreation was removed as a reasonable excuse for leaving home in lockdown regulations

He also points out the 'rules' have changed on average every 4.5 days since this started.

 

[Ediswan]

Good spot from the 5pm conference from this barrister on twitter. Priti going on about how everyone knows the rules so obey them...

Mastermind 2030. Specialist subject "The English lockdown rules as applicable on 12th January 2021". Any bets on the score for that round ?

 

[Butts]

I wonder how people in the UK would feel about a curfew being imposed ?

It would certainly simplify things immensely.

As I understand it Paris has a curfew in force and the normally militant French seem to be largely complying.

 

[py_megapixel]

I wonder how people in the UK would feel about a curfew being imposed ?

It would certainly simplify things immensely.

As I understand it Paris has a curfew in force and the normally militant French seem to be largely complying.

What would be the point though? Presumably all you'd do is force people who would usually partake in e.g. exercise in the late evening or early morning to do it during the day instead, making it more crowded.

 

[HLE]

Just seen on BBC Wales TV a report of a coloured man dying in custody last Friday in a Cardiff police station and that approx 300 Black Lives Matter demonstrated in a protest today. I saw a police presence but what do you think they were doing ? Standing watching !!!
In addition to the numbers there they must have travelled to get there.

And yet those protesting in Westminster against lockdown rules were arrested.

Maybe the police do have a racism problem. Seems in this instance to be the complete opposite way round to how BLM portray it.

I wonder how people in the UK would feel about a curfew being imposed ?

It would certainly simplify things immensely.

As I understand it Paris has a curfew in force and the normally militant French seem to be largely complying.

Nope. Not for me anyway even if I'd have a valid reason for being out. Work.

 

[birchesgreen]

I wonder how people in the UK would feel about a curfew being imposed ?

It would certainly simplify things immensely.

As I understand it Paris has a curfew in force and the normally militant French seem to be largely complying.

What good would a curfew do this time of year? The streets arn't exactly thronging in the dark and all it would do is make life more difficult for shift workers and the like.

Plus the idea of "curfew" seems very un-British to me.

 

[Butts]

What good would a curfew do this time of year? The streets arn't exactly thronging in the dark and all it would do is make life more difficult for shift workers and the like.

Plus the idea of "curfew" seems very un-British to me.

It also seems very un-French as well - why are they doing it ?

 

[island]

One man’s “pedantic and inflexible” is another man’s “accurate and consistent”

I’m not close to the Welsh law and guidance, but ultimately it’s not the police’s job to make the rules, it’s their job to enforce them. If what they did is against the defined rules, then they’re bang to rights. If it’s against guidance, we’re into murkier waters

The Welsh regulations have two categories of reasons to leave your house. One is an exhaustive list of ten reasons such as attending a place of worship, voting in an election, or travelling to the other part of one’s support bubble. These are always allowed. The second category is “a purpose that is reasonably necessary and there is no reasonably practicable alternative”, and there is a non-exhaustive list of examples such as food shopping, working, viewing a property to buy or rent, or going to the bank. Visiting a relative in a care home isn’t in the “always allowed” category or on the list of examples of ”reasonably necessary”, and even if one was to argue that the visit was reasonably necessary, there is a reasonably practicable alternative of calling or video-calling the person.

I think the Heddlu were right this time.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Must be seen to be doing something...

Spain (and the Canaries) have a 10pm-6am curfew in place, not sure why or what it aims to achieve.

The Welsh regulations have two categories of reasons to leave your house. One is an exhaustive list of ten reasons such as attending a place of worship, voting in an election, or travelling to the other part of one’s support bubble. These are always allowed. The second category is “a purpose that is reasonably necessary and there is no reasonably practicable alternative”, and there is a non-exhaustive list of examples such as food shopping, working, viewing a property to buy or rent, or going to the bank. Visiting a relative in a care home isn’t in the “always allowed” category and there is a reasonably practicable alternative of calling or video-calling them.

I think the Heddlu were right this time.

Obviously I am being presumptions here - but surely the family called the care home to check to see if they were allowed (and to book?) a visit. The care home could have at least highlighted this was not permitted, or may not be permitted, under current regulations?

Perhaps that's wishful thinking.

 

[island]

Obviously I am being presumptions here - but surely the family called the care home to check to see if they were allowed (and to book?) a visit. The care home could have at least highlighted this was not permitted, or may not be permitted, under current regulations?

Perhaps that's wishful thinking.

That would no doubt have been helpful of them, but the responsibility for following the law lies ultimately on the individual.

 

[MDB1images]

Yes I don't really understand this.

You need a valid reason to leave home. Exercise is a valid reason. The law allows you to travel in order to exercise and does not specify a distance.

The guidance suggests you should keep local, I.E. local village, town or part of city. However the guidance is not law. The fine those two women got was cancelled and they had travelled I think 7 miles. Now the Government seems to be suggesting they weren't following the "rules" and should have been fined. So should they have been fined or not. And if so, under what law?

As I said I am confused as I thought the police could only enforce the law not guidance. After all there is guidance I should not drink 50 pints of beer in a week, but if I did, I'd not expect the police to come knocking on the door.

In addition Boris was seen cycling in the Olympic park and Government are suggesting that was all OK. I am not clear if he cycled directly from Downing Street or travelled there by some either means first. Either way however he is not exercising in his local part of the city, which seems to be against the guidance as he is in another borough and would have had to travel through at least one other borough to get there. I don't know the total distance he cycled, but he could have cycled any distance within the borough of Westminster (e.g. by going round a loop multiple times).

As long as you travel for the purpose of exercise can you be legally fined (and the fine upheld) if you travel to exercise and under what distance? 1 mile? 5 miles? 50 miles? I suspect the answer is no.

I copied and pasted the following onto my phone when the latest lockdown commenced.
Its on Gov.Uk.........(mods feel free to sort out the quote below)

"You should follow this guidance immediately. This is the law.

Leaving home
You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:

shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person.

go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home

exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one

seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)

attend education or childcare - for those eligible

If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay local - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work. Stay local means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.

If you are clinically extremely vulnerable you should only go out for medical appointments, exercise or if it is essential. You should not attend work"

 

[takno]

It also seems very un-French as well - why are they doing it ?

As an avid European I'd have to say it sounds like exactly the sort of thing the French would do. I wouldn't expect to see anybody complying with it, but it doesn't surprise me at all to see them having one

None of which really covers off exactly what the point of one would be. As others have said you are just squeezing more peoples exercise and use of shops into a shorter space of time and making trouble for shift workers. It's not like the police can just safely assume that anybody out on the streets is game for getting shot.

 

[Butts]

As an avid European I'd have to say it sounds like exactly the sort of thing the French would do. I wouldn't expect to see anybody complying with it, but it doesn't surprise me at all to see them having one

None of which really covers off exactly what the point of one would be. As others have said you are just squeezing more peoples exercise and use of shops into a shorter space of time and making trouble for shift workers. It's not like the police can just safely assume that anybody out on the streets is game for getting shot.

I think a sensible measure to reduce footfall would be to shutdown all the "click and collects" and restrict takeaways to delivery only as well.

It was great going to work back in the early stages of the pandemic walking through empty thoroughfares.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I think a sensible measure to reduce footfall would be to shutdown all the "click and collects" and restrict takeaways to delivery only as well.

It was great going to work back in the early stages of the pandemic walking through empty thoroughfares.

Would this actually have any effect on transmission of the virus, though?

That's what the aim of the restrictions are. Not to just put restrictions in place for the sake of it, contrary to popular belief.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Travel to attend to a property or perform maintenance would be a valid reason to travel between Scotland and England anyway!

Yes and in fact they only exchanged a week or three before so there were a couple of trips made to set up the home

 

[Butts]

Would this actually have any effect on transmission of the virus, though?

That's what the aim of the restrictions are. Not to just put restrictions in place for the sake of it, contrary to popular belief.

I can see it coming up here in the not to distant future (for the sake of it Nicola)

 

[WelshBluebird]

Would this actually have any effect on transmission of the virus, though?

That's what the aim of the restrictions are. Not to just put restrictions in place for the sake of it, contrary to popular belief.

Given that click and collects mean that at least some people in retail and hospitality have to be in work, and at least some employers in those markets have had large outbreaks in the workplace (a fair few haven't been made public I'd imagine), it stands to reason that there is a liklihood such workplaces being open is spreading the virus.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just seen on BBC Wales TV a report of a black man dying in custody last Friday in a Cardiff police station and that approx 300 Black Lives Matter demonstrated in a protest today. I saw a police presence but what do you think they were doing ? Standing watching !!!
In addition to the numbers there they must have travelled to get there.

Here is an extract from Wales on Line

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/hundreds-protest-after-24-year-19612715

Hundreds of people protested outside Cardiff Bay police station tonight following the death of Mohamud Mohammed Hassan, after he was released from police custody.

Flares were set off and police stood guard outside the station while the protest took place.

Mr Hassan, 24, died on Saturday night and it was stated in the Senedd today that witnesses had reportedly been shocked by his condition following his release, saying his tracksuit was covered in blood and that he had severe injuries and bruising..

Officers have said the death of Mr Hassan was "sudden and unexplained". The force said he had been taken into custody following a disturbance on Newport Road in Roath on Friday night. He left custody at around 8.30am on Saturday morning.

Hundreds of protestors gathered outside Cardiff Central Library on Tuesday, January 12, chanting and carrying placards.

Many protesters said they were angry at the police and wanted answers.