First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[Buses in Bath]

53806 removed from the tracker so presumably taken out of service?

Yes 53806 and 53820 have been withdrawn

 

[aquae39]

Yes 53806 and 53820 have been withdrawn

The only upcoming withdrawn vehicles are Gemini B7TLs, is that it before the clean air zone effective date?

There is also a new regular service 32 from Bath bus station to Racecourse on coming timetable change as it says as a daily service. I wonder if a Bath zone ticket valid to Racecourse beyond Lansdown P&R.

 

[Buses in Bath]

The only upcoming withdrawn vehicles are Gemini B7TLs, is that it before the clean air zone effective date?

There is also a new regular service 32 from Bath bus station to Racecourse on coming timetable change as it says as a daily service. I wonder if a Bath zone ticket valid to Racecourse beyond Lansdown P&R.

I'm assuming they're trying to get them out as soon as possible. I would have thought that's why Bath has some Citylines 3&4 buses so that they can be withdrawn before the extra B9s come. The Bath Zone ticket will be valid to the racecourse.

 

[Whiteway215]

I believe (but open to correction of course) the current Bath allocation of CAZ non compliant buses are 32291 32329/30/38/43 32543/4/5 39005 66720/6.

 

[B7rleThrasher]

53806 has been purchased by a Bath Driver for future preservation

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe (but open to correction of course) the current Bath allocation of CAZ non compliant buses are 32291 32329/30/38/43 32543/4/5 39005 66720/6.

Saw 66720 tonight working the D2 as I got the shopping in at Sainsburys.

53806 has been purchased by a Bath Driver for future preservation

That's good.

Mind you, wasn't 46225 purchased by a driver? Don't know if it still exists.

 

[henairs]

Saw 66720 tonight working the D2 as I got the shopping in at Sainsburys.

That's good.

Mind you, wasn't 46225 purchased by a driver? Don't know if it still exists.

Hi Wazoo,
Out of curiosity would that be Sainsbury's Bath or Frome as both sites are close to D2 route.
Used to get food/drink in the Frome branch when passing through there whilst waiting for onward travel
off the 161/162 from Wells. First used to have around 7 routes around Frome a few years back, now its
down to just the D2. Bar the Wells route though I believe other operators run some services on the other
corridors.
All the best, not long for the jab now,
Cheers, Mike

 

[spw24]

Some recent repaints are 37334 into Mint Green for route 5 and 2 trainers are 66937 and 66992.

 

[Blackpudding]

Some recent repaints are 37334 into Mint Green for route 5 and 2 trainers are 66937 and 66992.

47551 also painted into Badgerline colours at Weston-s-Mare

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Hi Wazoo,
Out of curiosity would that be Sainsbury's Bath or Frome as both sites are close to D2 route.
Used to get food/drink in the Frome branch when passing through there whilst waiting for onward travel
off the 161/162 from Wells. First used to have around 7 routes around Frome a few years back, now its
down to just the D2. Bar the Wells route though I believe other operators run some services on the other
corridors.
All the best, not long for the jab now,
Cheers, Mike

Hi Mike

It was Frome - literally saw it dive into Critchill as I was walking out across the car park with my purchases.

When I moved nearby from the smoke, about 10 years ago, Frome had a sizeable outstation on the Buckland Road that operated a number of routes. They had the 267 (now the D2) and Faresaver have now come off that route so hopefully safe for a while.

The others are/were the 234 to Trowbridge and Chippenham (where Faresaver's competitive X34 saw First off), the 184 to Bath (now operated by Libra Travel only to Midsomer Norton), the local 30 (now Frome Bus) and 161/162 to Wells (now just a much reduced 161 to Shepton). A few years before, there was also the 53 to Warminster but that passed to/from Badgerline a few times on tender.

Hope you're keeping well.

Some recent repaints are 37334 into Mint Green for route 5 and 2 trainers are 66937 and 66992.

Be good to see that mint one. Some of the B9s are looking a bit scruffy after 7 years since a repaint

47551 also painted into Badgerline colours at Weston-s-Mare

Some of the Darts on death row.... mind you, they owe nothing to First.

 

[Tommy Walters]

Some recent repaints are 37334 into Mint Green for route 5 and 2 trainers are 66937 and 66992.

69444 has also come back in BathCity blue, and fittingly carries the name "Nana Boateng", which was previously worn by 66727.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

69444 has also come back in BathCity blue, and fittingly carries the name "Nana Boateng", which was previously worn by 66727.

Nice touch by First.

 

[Private Baxter]

Some recent repaints are 37334 into Mint Green for route 5 and 2 trainers are 66937 and 66992.

Oh good, I often pass the 5 on my way to work, so look forward to seeing these in due course.

Hi Mike

It was Frome - literally saw it dive into Critchill as I was walking out across the car park with my purchases.

When I moved nearby from the smoke, about 10 years ago, Frome had a sizeable outstation on the Buckland Road that operated a number of routes. They had the 267 (now the D2) and Faresaver have now come off that route so hopefully safe for a while.

The others are/were the 234 to Trowbridge and Chippenham (where Faresaver's competitive X34 saw First off), the 184 to Bath (now operated by Libra Travel only to Midsomer Norton), the local 30 (now Frome Bus) and 161/162 to Wells (now just a much reduced 161 to Shepton). A few years before, there was also the 53 to Warminster but that passed to/from Badgerline a few times on tender.

Hope you're keeping well.

Be good to see that mint one. Some of the B9s are looking a bit scruffy after 7 years since a repaint

Some of the Darts on death row.... mind you, they owe nothing to First.

Indeed Frome used to be served quite well by First, but as you say nearly all gone now, whilst its outstation merged with Westbury. On the surface, the 267, now D2, has been improved, compared to even five years ago, with newer, bigger, branded buses, operating at an increased frequency, (pre Covid obviously), though whether it was ever truly successful is for debate.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh good, I often pass the 5 on my way to work, so look forward to seeing these in due course.


Indeed Frome used to be served quite well by First, but as you say nearly all gone now, whilst its outstation merged with Westbury. On the surface, the 267, now D2, has been improved, compared to even five years ago, with newer, bigger, branded buses, operating at an increased frequency, (pre Covid obviously), though whether it was ever truly successful is for debate.

The D2 was uplifted to half hourly when Discover was introduced but wasn't it reduced to hourly off peak not long before lockdown. The exit by Faresaver from the X67 will hopefully allow some stability from First on that route.

The decline of First over the last 20+ years to the east/south east of Bath has been quite something...sadly.

 

[swifty]

The decline of First over the last 20+ years to the east/south east of Bath has been quite something...sadly.

And to an extent between Bath and Bristol.... with all but the X39 having pretty much gone. Granted that’s now operated by deckers on high frequency but the Keynsham services have been decimated.

 

[Dai Corner]

And to an extent between Bath and Bristol.... with all but the X39 having pretty much gone. Granted that’s now operated by deckers on high frequency but the Keynsham services have been decimated.

First operate nearly all the trains between Bristol, Keynsham and Bath, of course.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Saw 47568 on rail replacement duties in Cardiff today.

Apologies for disappearing off the radar on this thread, I've moved to Gloucester (which is of course Stagecoach territory!) and of course with lockdown I have no reason to be in First territory (the Streetlite in Cardiff being the only exception as I was back in Cardiff collecting the rest of my belongings).

Do hope you're all well!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And to an extent between Bath and Bristol.... with all but the X39 having pretty much gone. Granted that’s now operated by deckers on high frequency but the Keynsham services have been decimated.

First operate nearly all the trains between Bristol, Keynsham and Bath, of course.

The 318/319 and the 337 (as was) have been messed around far too much in recent times, perhaps since 2013/4? Mind you, the 349 was in competition with First and that's now their service but operated by Abus on their behalf. The A4 has also mopped up much of the Bath to Keynsham trade. What might happen with RATP in Bath in future, given they've sold their other non London ops, is something to watch perhaps?

The trains have less impact given the frequency and the location of Temple Meads which is why the X39 does so well.

I've moved to Gloucester

We shall pray for your soul

 

[-Colly405-]

Some recent repaints are 37334 into Mint Green for route 5 and 2 trainers are 66937 and 66992.

37334 - citylines style or more like the Darts were?

 

[Whiteway215]

I believe 44523 may have been transferred back to Bath from Hengrove. Wasn't it transferred together with 44520 because of special working of the U2? I forget the actual reason.

 

[sk688]

And to an extent between Bath and Bristol.... with all but the X39 having pretty much gone. Granted that’s now operated by deckers on high frequency but the Keynsham services have been decimated.

They do still have the 178,17,18 and 19 running tbh , and there's plenty of services in the Kingswood/south Glos areas between Bath and Bristol

I do wish they'd reinstate the 37 to at least an hourly frequency though

 

[freetoview33]

37334 - citylines style or more like the Darts were?

Just plain mint at the moment no branding has been applied.

 

[ValleyLines142]

We shall pray for your soul

Thanks

Where I am seems decent enough.

 

[Private Baxter]

37334 - citylines style or more like the Darts were?

I expect all LH and HE buses will adopt that style eventually, unless of course they change the image again halfway through!! Either way, the coloured front urban buses will I expect become a thing of the past in Bristol.

 

[swifty]

The 318/319 and the 337 (as was) have been messed around far too much in recent times, perhaps since 2013/4? Mind you, the 349 was in competition with First and that's now their service but operated by Abus on their behalf. The A4 has also mopped up much of the Bath to Keynsham trade. What might happen with RATP in Bath in future, given they've sold their other non London ops, is something to watch perhaps?

The trains have less impact given the frequency and the location of Temple Meads which is why the X39 does so well.

The 318/319 and 17/17A/17B, 18/19/19A/19B have been messed around far too much over the last decade, and in fact the Willsbridge - Keynsham route. First registering an extended 42 to force the withdraw of the Wessex 532/3 was nothing more than a spoiler and has left them with a headache between Kingswood and Keynsham via Oldland with constant fiddling ever since. Fair enough First seem to have made the 17 work eventually, but not after countless changes and the eventual withdraw of the 17A from Oldland, having replaced the extended 42.

The services along the A431 are also questionable, it sustained both the 319 and 332 for over a decade, but once they were renumbered as the 19 and 37 and timetabled to run within minutes of each other the resulting downward spiral of cuts and decline in service started, and granted were in difficult times but there's hardly a usable service now.

If we look back to 2010 routes 337 Keynsham to Bath (2 an hour) and 349 Keynsham to Bristol (3* an hour) with an evening service. *The 178 also ran between Keynsham, via Chandag, to Bristol once an hour with an evening service.
In 2020 pre-Covid the 18 Keynsham to Bath (1 an hour) and 349 Keynsham to Bristol (2* an hour) with no evening service (yes there's the 39 but it only follows the old main road through Keynsham.) *The 178 also still runs but now missing out Chandag with no evening service and scheduled within minutes of the 349 to/from Bristol. The main service to Bath is now the RATP A4 running early to late every 30 minutes having doubled in frequency, presumable the premium Airport fares help to sustain this. In between the 38/338 Bath to Bristol via Keynsham through service has been tried and lost.

I'll admit there have been some green shoots of improvement around Keynsham from First during Covid, I'm guessing from the grants available, with the 349 now having a late evening service (interworked with the X8?) and the 17 serving the south Keynsham 349 loop all weekend.

All of the above routes are intrinsically linked in their operation and flows and without starting with a blank canvas I can't see how they can ever truly make them attractive services. It's certainly not as easy as it looks on paper when you start to think about it, the 37 effects the 19, which effects the 19A etc.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The 318/319 and 17/17A/17B, 18/19/19A/19B have been messed around far too much over the last decade, and in fact the Willsbridge - Keynsham route. First registering an extended 42 to force the withdraw of the Wessex 532/3 was nothing more than a spoiler and has left them with a headache between Kingswood and Keynsham via Oldland with constant fiddling ever since. Fair enough First seem to have made the 17 work eventually, but not after countless changes and the eventual withdraw of the 17A from Oldland, having replaced the extended 42.

As someone whose usual office since 2012 has been just off Keynsham Road (so right on the Willsbridge - Keynsham main road), and who until COVID used to commute there from both Bath (which is where I lived) and Bristol (where my partner lived), I can't disagree with anything there. Just keeping up with the changes to the buses was a total nightmare. Even where there weren't route changes - the times changed so frequently that it just wasn't feasible. As soon as I'd figure out a commute that worked involving a bus, the timetable or route would change - and so I would often just prefer to deal with the walk from and to Keynsham and get a train instead (even if it meant a 20 min walk in the rain and a further 20 min wait for a train). Until COVID - I had settled on the 18 from Bath and the 37 from Bristol (and walking down just to top bit of Keynsham Road) as the timings just about were ok. But I have no doubt that after COVID I'll have to rethink my journey again!

The main service to Bath is now the RATP A4 running early to late every 30 minutes having doubled in frequency, presumable the premium Airport fares help to sustain this.

What are the fares like for Keynsham - Bath on the A4? They have nothing on their website apart from the airport fares.
I've never bothered catching the A4 just because of that reason really!

 

[Buses in Bath]

What are the fares like for Keynsham - Bath on the A4? They have nothing on their website apart from the airport fares.
I've never bothered catching the A4 just because of that reason really!

They're actually really good. They do 10 singles for £20.00 which are valid between Bath and Highridge

 

[freetoview33]

I think there is a way to sort out all the mess around Kingswood, Keynsham and Bath but as said it would involve services changing majorly, but I don't think it's a lost cause.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think there is a way to sort out all the mess around Kingswood, Keynsham and Bath but as said it would involve services changing majorly, but I don't think it's a lost cause.

Agree with all that and from @swifty and @WelshBluebird

FWIW, I was always of the view that the 349 needed to be addressed and perhaps it will when Abus exits, improving the rolling stock (which is rather tired in those Spectras) and the branding? At the risk of "playing buses" and not knowing the state of travelling patterns, something like a 15 min headway along the Bath Road coordinated with the X39. Then into Keynsham town centre e.g. a half hourly K1 that is essentially the 349, and a half hourly K2 that runs to through to Chandag and one per hour heading onward to Radstock in place of the 178.

I think the 17 has now covered the Hanham end and keep the A4 as it is.

As for the A431 route, that's been a mess. Perhaps a half-hourly headway between the 19 and 37 could be found?

 

[Private Baxter]

Agree with all that and from @swifty and @WelshBluebird

FWIW, I was always of the view that the 349 needed to be addressed and perhaps it will when Abus exits, improving the rolling stock (which is rather tired in those Spectras) and the branding? At the risk of "playing buses" and not knowing the state of travelling patterns, something like a 15 min headway along the Bath Road coordinated with the X39. Then into Keynsham town centre e.g. a half hourly K1 that is essentially the 349, and a half hourly K2 that runs to through to Chandag and one per hour heading onward to Radstock in place of the 178.

I think the 17 has now covered the Hanham end and keep the A4 as it is.

As for the A431 route, that's been a mess. Perhaps a half-hourly headway between the 19 and 37 could be found?

I had thought that the Keynsham corridor(s) would be redrawn at some point, and yes, rebranded too. After all it is the one section that really hasn't been touched, and as others have said, a bit of a mess. Dare I suggest also a new numbering system, hopefully not K.... but rather use the 30s, but we'll see.