First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[KendalKing]

Like I said it was unconfirmed becoming trainers. Olive Grove just lost a load of B7s to Eastern Counties so maybe as they were refurbished, they could be replacements, albeit a small number of them

Both 66881 & 66884 are in the new training livery.

 

[freetoview33]

I think the only saving grace of the 37 might be Oldfield School. No doubt First would like the current staggered start and finish times to continue longer term as it would mean they could effectively run routes to serve the place. Whether or not the numbers stack up for the school travel either once the OS1-5 route subsidy ends, i have no idea.

The 18 between Keynsham and Kingswood is an interesting one. First have gone to astonishing lengths to prevent anybody else (including us) being in that part of the world, yet they've clearly lost interest in the 42 in that area as well. Perhaps that end will become one of the "spokes" that radiate out from the Kingswood hub when the WECA grand masterplan is put in to motion.

Very true if WECA get what they want it will be an extremely different network to now

 

[ValleyLines142]

Speaking of routes that could be killed off I am surprised that Service 5 (Downend - City Centre, via. St. Paul's) continues to run: I can't recall seeing that many people on it at the best of times so I would be surprised if deckers do well on that route. Although I am not sure how well the 48A does for passengers between Old Market and UWE Frenchay I personally wouldn't be that surprised if we one day saw:

- 5: Withdrawn.
- 24: Some journeys used to reconstitute the former Service 25 via. St. Paul's. (Can't recall when this last ran).
- 48A: Revised route. Same as 48 to Downend (Badminton Road), then to Bromley Heath (Quaker's Road / Wedgewood Road) via. Four Acres Road and Quaker's Road.

UWE Frenchay to St. Mathias is covered by the Bath / Keynsham to Cribbs Causeway route I believe?

Or am I being silly?
Dave

The 5 has just seen Geminis branded. 37334 has just received full branding for it now.

As for the 48A, it's more to create a direct link between Fishponds and UWE. If anything, I think the 48A technically only needs to run as far as Fishponds and not the City Centre, as the Metrobus is obviously the quickest route between UWE and there.

 

[WelshBluebird]

In terms of routes to get axed, we have to remember that despite Bristol being fairly well served in terms of bus routes as a whole (at least compared to other places I have lived it is, the usual complaints are more regarding the ability to keep to time due to traffic which is another matter!), there are parts of the city pretty poorly served and reliant on one or two routes to have any service at all. The talk of the 5 is a good example as it is the only service in St Paul's. Whilst other services could be diverted to also serve the area, but at what cost to those services in terms of timekeeping (especially as some of the services that could serve St Paul's currently use either Gloucester road and Stokes Croft or the M32 as a more direct route into / out of the city centre) and the areas that they serve (i.e. the suggestion of changing the 24 earlier).

With the comments some people have made of the WECA plans, is there a public link to some of the things being suggested there?

 

[Citistar]

In terms of routes to get axed, we have to remember that despite Bristol being fairly well served in terms of bus routes as a whole (at least compared to other places I have lived it is, the usual complaints are more regarding the ability to keep to time due to traffic which is another matter!), there are parts of the city pretty poorly served and reliant on one or two routes to have any service at all. The talk of the 5 is a good example as it is the only service in St Paul's. Whilst other services could be diverted to also serve the area, but at what cost to those services in terms of timekeeping (especially as some of the services that could serve St Paul's currently use either Gloucester road and Stokes Croft or the M32 as a more direct route into / out of the city centre) and the areas that they serve (i.e. the suggestion of changing the 24 earlier).

With the comments some people have made of the WECA plans, is there a public link to some of the things being suggested there?

Have a look at the strategy document here. It suggests fewer routes running more frequently across the central area with connections to suburban areas or further afield. Whilst respondents to the consultation were in favour of this, i somewhat doubt many would be impressed if a through bus journey were turned in to a connecting one.

 

[cnjb8]

Both 66881 & 66884 are in the new training livery.

Ah thank you

 

[Whiteway215]

The last non compliant (with Bath LEZ) single deckers 66720 and 66726 reported withdrawn from Bath today.
Only about eight or nine deckers left to remove from Bath, reportedly to be replaced by B9s from Aberdeen, and that should mean the city’s allocation will all be compliant.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 18 between Keynsham and Kingswood is an interesting one. First have gone to astonishing lengths to prevent anybody else (including us) being in that part of the world, yet they've clearly lost interest in the 42 in that area as well. Perhaps that end will become one of the "spokes" that radiate out from the Kingswood hub when the WECA grand masterplan is put in to motion.

What is the WECA masterplan? Is it to have some direct Centre to Kingswood service and a range of connecting spokes to various places so there's half a dozen vehicles parked up on Moravian Road/Cecil road all waiting to connect?

EDIT: typed this then saw your reply!!!

I think 48A is fairly safe. There is an established link between UWE campuses at Frenchay and Glenside which is probably as or more important than the route running through to the centre.

I reckon 48 could well be more in danger than 48A. 5 could be extended to Emersons Green to cover the demand between there and Downend on a more realistic frequency, with Y2 being returned to a sensible headway in order to provide the primary Downend service. It would save an awful lot of buses, which may become a fashionable move in the near future.

Absolutely right - the 48A is really a route that links the UWE campuses AND also with the student housing areas in Fishponds. Hadn't really thought of the 48 being under threat and it seems incredible to consider it but then again, the unthinkable may have to be considered!

The last non compliant (with Bath LEZ) single deckers 66720 and 66726 reported withdrawn from Bath today.
Only about eight or nine deckers left to remove from Bath, reportedly to be replaced by B9s from Aberdeen, and that should mean the city’s allocation will all be compliant.

Wonder if that's the end of the road for them. Again, two vehicles that were fortunate enough to get a recent(-ish) refurb whilst stuff like 66723/4 look dreadful (though not for much longer). Feeling like a bit of an era ending with these 667** going but then again, some of us remember quite a few eras going (and before anyone makes a jibe, I can't recall the end of horse trams, thank you!).

Thanks for the update @Whiteway215

Like I said it was unconfirmed becoming trainers. Olive Grove just lost a load of B7s to Eastern Counties so maybe as they were refurbished, they could be replacements, albeit a small number of them

To be fair, you'd understand that FSY might not realise that the 6688* are in better shape internally than their existing ones. They're just some 16 year old buses.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Have a look at the strategy document here. It suggests fewer routes running more frequently across the central area with connections to suburban areas or further afield. Whilst respondents to the consultation were in favour of this, i somewhat doubt many would be impressed if a through bus journey were turned in to a connecting one.

Thanks for the links! It is kind of funny because turning through buses into connections does match a lot of what First has been doing in recent years anyway (as the document does correctly note as the main way to reduce congestion in the city centre is to split services that cross through the city centre - and First has done that in Bath too - a great example there are the uni services in Bath which were split). So it is actually interesting that the document suggests basically doing the opposite in terms of the cross city centre services but with the same goal in terms of the wider network! But agreed that may not go down well, especially as amongst the general public bus connections are viewed as a lot less dependable than say rail connections (which again, to be fair the document does touch on). No idea how you change that though as my experience has been outside of the city centres that perception is often a reality (having to wait an hour for the next bus because you missed the connection by 1 minute is not fun in my experience!).

 

[carlberry]

The only upcoming withdrawn vehicles are Gemini B7TLs, is that it before the clean air zone effective date?

There is also a new regular service 32 from Bath bus station to Racecourse on coming timetable change as it says as a daily service. I wonder if a Bath zone ticket valid to Racecourse beyond Lansdown P&R.

I don't know if it's been mentioned anywhere else. It appears the new service 32 is to get people to the new mass vaccine centre at the Racecourse when it starts operating on Monday.

 

[Private Baxter]

Wonder if that's the end of the road for them. Again, two vehicles that were fortunate enough to get a recent(-ish) refurb whilst stuff like 66723/4 look dreadful (though not for much longer). Feeling like a bit of an era ending with these 667** going but then again, some of us remember quite a few eras going (and before anyone makes a jibe, I can't recall the end of horse trams, thank you!).

Thanks for the update @Whiteway215


To be fair, you'd understand that FSY might not realise that the 6688* are in better shape internally than their existing ones. They're just some 16 year old buses.

It's a pity they are off soon. I feel they should have a couple more years to go, but guess that isn't possible with certain requirements. I know, it seems odd to think of these as elderly. I too remember when they arrived with much fanfare in late 2004 as being state of the art. There was a launch ceremony on Wells Cathedral Green in January 2005 involving 66724, which was adorned with a ribbon for some months after. The Bath ones meanwhile spent half their life working the X39, much longer than intended.

You mention 66723/4 looking dreadful (which they do) but not for much longer. I expect you are implying that they too will be off soon (along with 66732), but dare I believe that they are getting a refurb and sticking around on the 72 for a couple more years??!! Not much has been announced about that route. Yeah, wishful thinking I'm sure!

 

[Adam Bryant 1]

Between 2 and 3pm the four 4's per hour from Henbury got quite full (with distancing over the summer) so when it goes back to like now 2 per hour it should be quite full.
With the Keynsham thing, if I am being honest in the current climate I think the following would be totally possible.

18 - Keynsham - Kingswood - U.W.E - Cribbs Causeway (Hourly whole route, half hourly Kingswood to U.W.E if demand is there) - Branded as Citylines East and a sister route to the 17.
19 - Bath - Kelston - Kingswood (Hourly) (or even number it the 9 and have it part of Bath City)
37 - Withdrawn
Leave the Bath - Keynsham section to the A4

The current service on the 18/19 works well. The only things that need improving are the reintroduction of the Saturday service on the 18 and possibly extending it from UWE to Bristol Parkway via Filton to reinstate the link to Filton which has been lost by rerouting the 19 via Harry Stoke and Parkway North. The half-hourly service between Kingswood and UWE is provided by the 18 and 19.
Withdrawing the 37 completely won't go down well with the people of Hanham and Longwell Green, judging by a couple of angry letters I've seen in a local newspaper. They want the service increased from the current stupidly timed 2 journeys each way on weekdays only.
Obviously, at the present moment there is no demand for buses due to the national lockdown but the demand will increase again once everybody is allowed out.

 

[Whiteway215]

Both 66881 & 66884 are in the new training livery.

66882/3/6 reported undergoing conversion at Thorntons.

 

[-Colly405-]

The current service on the 18/19 works well. The only things that need improving are the reintroduction of the Saturday service on the 18 and possibly extending it from UWE to Bristol Parkway via Filton to reinstate the link to Filton which has been lost by rerouting the 19 via Harry Stoke and Parkway North. The half-hourly service between Kingswood and UWE is provided by the 18 and 19.
Withdrawing the 37 completely won't go down well with the people of Hanham and Longwell Green, judging by a couple of angry letters I've seen in a local newspaper. They want the service increased from the current stupidly timed 2 journeys each way on weekdays only.
Obviously, at the present moment there is no demand for buses due to the national lockdown but the demand will increase again once everybody is allowed out.

By Filton, do you mean the MOD roundabout (in Stoke Gifford) or actual Filton (where the 19 has never gone!)? Don't forget that Stagecoach 10 and 11 operate half-hourly between UWE and Parkway via the MOD roundabout.

 

[freetoview33]

By Filton, do you mean the MOD roundabout (in Stoke Gifford) or actual Filton (where the 19 has never gone!)? Don't forget that Stagecoach 10 and 11 operate half-hourly between UWE and Parkway via the MOD roundabout.

And the m1 extension will call at both (admitting mod and Sainsbury's) but as said you have 10 and 11

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

Not seen noted yet in these pages is that some of the scarlet-fronted Streetdecks have lost their service 90 route branding. At least 35141/43/47/49 are like this and having been freed from their south Bristol shackles are regularly plying their trade on the 75 and 76 routes.

 

[Private Baxter]

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

Not seen noted yet in these pages is that some of the scarlet-fronted Streetdecks have lost their service 90 route branding. At least 35141/43/47/49 are like this and having been freed from their south Bristol shackles are regularly plying their trade on the 75 and 76 routes.

Hello! Yes indeed, I think most of those which had 90 branding now display south Bristol, and as you rightly say appear quite frequently on the 75 (which technically is a south Bristol route). A precursor perhaps to what might come soon?

 

[Citistar]

The 75, 76, 90, 91, 92 and 96 all interwork across Hengrove depot at the moment. There are something like 50 vehicles used across all the services on weekdays and very few of them spend all day on the same route.

 

[-Colly405-]

Hello! Yes indeed, I think most of those which had 90 branding now display south Bristol, and as you rightly say appear quite frequently on the 75 (which technically is a south Bristol route). A precursor perhaps to what might come soon?

It's semantics but I really don't see how the 75, which goes further north than every other City route except the 73 (and the m1 if that counts!), spends slightly more time north of the Centre than south of it, and is in a number series with the other Horfield routes, can be technically a south Bristol route!

 

[carlberry]

It's semantics but I really don't see how the 75, which goes further north than every other City route except the 73 (and the m1 if that counts!), spends slightly more time north of the Centre than south of it, and is in a number series with the other Horfield routes, can be technically a south Bristol route!

It also goes further south than anything except the 92! However, as Citistar said, they all appear to be inter working at present and it's just as likely to have a Park and Ride bus on it as a South Bristol one.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

Hello! Yes indeed, I think most of those which had 90 branding now display south Bristol, and as you rightly say appear quite frequently on the 75 (which technically is a south Bristol route). A precursor perhaps to what might come soon?

Ah yes, I’ve seen a few running around with ‘South Bristol’ branding on, though the ones listed were devoid of any branding, just a plain scarlet front end.

 

[Private Baxter]

The 75, 76, 90, 91, 92 and 96 all interwork across Hengrove depot at the moment. There are something like 50 vehicles used across all the services on weekdays and very few of them spend all day on the same route.

I didn't realise that, but it makes sense. I wonder if at some point many of those buses will get new colours and citylinesouth branding? At least those in the 90s anyway

It's semantics but I really don't see how the 75, which goes further north than every other City route except the 73 (and the m1 if that counts!), spends slightly more time north of the Centre than south of it, and is in a number series with the other Horfield routes, can be technically a south Bristol route!

Because it covers a decent area of south Bristol!
But you're right, it is as much a north Bristol route as it is a south Bristol one, and, and has more in common with other routes in the 70s series.
I hadn't realised however, as the poster below mentions, that it goes further south than all but the 92!

Ah yes, I’ve seen a few running around with ‘South Bristol’ branding on, though the ones listed were devoid of any branding, just a plain scarlet front end.

I see what you mean. Those that originally worked the 376 in Wells were repainted into urban with red fronts, with caption "proudly serving South Bristol" as opposed to a service number like the rest. I hadn't realised some have had their 90 removed!

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

I hadn't realised some have had their 90 removed!

In certain lighting conditions it is possible to discern the outline of where the vinyl graphics were attached, don't know if that is an adhesive residue or what. Anyway,
there was a most unexpected sighting earlier today of 44520 working a service 70 . It was later displaced onto its more usual haunt of the 93x Hengrove shuttle.

Also noted was Bath Unibus 35131 stretching its legs on an X39.

35145 can be added to the list of de-branded service 90/South Bristol Streetdecks.

 

[Private Baxter]

In certain lighting conditions it is possible to discern the outline of where the vinyl graphics were attached, don't know if that is an adhesive residue or what. Anyway,
there was a most unexpected sighting earlier today of 44520 working a service 70 . It was later displaced onto its more usual haunt of the 93x Hengrove shuttle.

Also noted was Bath Unibus 35131 stretching its legs on an X39.

35145 can be added to the list of de-branded service 90/South Bristol Streetdecks.

My guess is that they are simply changing them all over to aforementioned "Proudly Serving South Bristol" rather than anything more interesting. Either that or it is an acknowledgement that they now stray off the the 90 every day and so not really appropriate.

 

[freetoview33]

In certain lighting conditions it is possible to discern the outline of where the vinyl graphics were attached, don't know if that is an adhesive residue or what. Anyway,
there was a most unexpected sighting earlier today of 44520 working a service 70 . It was later displaced onto its more usual haunt of the 93x Hengrove shuttle.

Also noted was Bath Unibus 35131 stretching its legs on an X39.

35145 can be added to the list of de-branded service 90/South Bristol Streetdecks.

It will be interesting to see as it has been suggested that the 75/76 will be the next services to be branded once the 5 is finished. So watch this space.

 

[Tommy Walters]

Looks as if the new Bath 32 (or the Vaccine Express as I'll refer to it) is in the hands of P&R deckers, as was to be expected. 35114/5 making up the first day's allocations.

Not sure how long the remaining ex-70/1 Streetdecks will be in Bath for. Think the re-engined E400Hs are a bit rubbish reliability wise, so could be a while!

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

It will be interesting to see as it has been suggested that the 75/76 will be the next services to be branded once the 5 is finished. So watch this space.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how a brand is developed for cross-city routes that don’t easily lend themselves to a ‘regional’ brand such as ‘CitylinesEast’, possibly using the route number as a brand in the manner of the 1/2 or 73. ISTR one of the early Gemini B7s carrying a prototype branding for the 75/76, a dark turquoise/teal colour IIRC, 37001 springs to mind as the vehicle involved but happy to be corrected on that. At any rate it wasn’t rolled out any further.

 

[freetoview33]

Yes, it will be interesting to see how a brand is developed for cross-city routes that don’t easily lend themselves to a ‘regional’ brand such as ‘CitylinesEast’, possibly using the route number as a brand in the manner of the 1/2 or 73. ISTR one of the early Gemini B7s carrying a prototype branding for the 75/76, a dark turquoise/teal colour IIRC, 37001 springs to mind as the vehicle involved but happy to be corrected on that. At any rate it wasn’t rolled out any further.

Indeed it was 37001, I am thinking it will be along the lines of Citylines 75 + 76 more than likely in a blue colour but maybe deeper than what was seen on 37001. The more time goes on the more I am thinking the Streetdecks might be centralised onto the 75+76 (As someone on here suggested).

 

[DaveHarries]

Indeed it was 37001, I am thinking it will be along the lines of Citylines 75 + 76 more than likely in a blue colour but maybe deeper than what was seen on 37001. The more time goes on the more I am thinking the Streetdecks might be centralised onto the 75+76 (As someone on here suggested).

Seeing as I don't live or work on the 75/76 routes then those routes are more than welcome to the Streetdecks AFAIAC! On the other hand they may decide to get some new(er) vehicles (as per Service 73?) for the 75/76 which I could see being branded as Citylines [.....] and leave the Streetdecks on the 70/71.

Dave

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

The 75, 76, 90, 91, 92 and 96 all interwork across Hengrove depot at the moment. There are something like 50 vehicles used across all the services on weekdays and very few of them spend all day on the same route.

Interesting, thanks for that. Are you aware of, or able to post, the reasons behind this interworking? Although it is more than a good few years since I retired from driving out of Lawrence Hill I don’t remember a great deal of interworking apart from split turns or closely-related routes such as the 6/7, 8/9 or 44/45. Certainly routes such as the 1, the (old) 41 and the full-length 43 were pretty well self-contained.