Rail Freight Flows and News UK

[Freightmaster]

Hi Mark, do you know what is happening with the trials re Heinz in Wigan? Other websites saying potential flows from Hull docks.

Not heard anything more, but these things tend to take time (i.e. several months) to get going
following initial trial/interest from the customer.





MARK

 

[furnessvale]

Not heard anything more, but these things tend to take time (i.e. several months) to get going
following initial trial/interest from the customer.





MARK

I have wondered if this is the traffic for the Immingham to Trafford Park working showing on RTT.

 

[Donny_m]

'Bench it'???

slang term for sitting on a bench to watch trains.

 

[xotGD]

slang term for sitting on a bench to watch trains.

Thanks. Every day is a school day.

 

[markymark2000]

With thanks to someone on another forum, paths are now in place for a Freightliner Doncaster - Garston - Seaforth - Doncaster triangle intermodal flow.

11:14 4Z75 Doncaster Europort to Garston FLT

Realtime Trains - 441G 1114 Doncaster Ept (F'liners) to Garston F.L.T.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

19:18 4F71 Garston FLT to Seaforth CT

Realtime Trains - 420H 1918 Garston F.L.T. to Seaforth C.T.(Fliner)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

03:10 4E71 Seaforth CT to Doncaster Europort

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0310 Seaforth C.T.(Fliner) to Immingham A2 And B4 (Flhh)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I can also see a one way paths in place for Seaforth (03:10) or Trafford Park (04:28) to Tees Dock (09:14). Not sure though on more details though as it's only one way.

 

[palmersears]

With thanks to someone on another forum, paths are now in place for a Freightliner Doncaster - Garston - Seaforth - Doncaster triangle intermodal flow.

11:14 4Z75 Doncaster Europort to Garston FLT

Realtime Trains - 441G 1114 Doncaster Ept (F'liners) to Garston F.L.T.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

19:18 4F71 Garston FLT to Seaforth CT

Realtime Trains - 420H 1918 Garston F.L.T. to Seaforth C.T.(Fliner)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

03:10 4E71 Seaforth CT to Doncaster Europort

Realtime Trains - FRGT 0310 Seaforth C.T.(Fliner) to Immingham A2 And B4 (Flhh)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I can also see a one way paths in place for Seaforth (03:10) or Trafford Park (04:28) to Tees Dock (09:14). Not sure though on more details though as it's only one way.

For anybody thinking of braving the cold to see these at any point, they won't run this week. It's purely a planning exercise to see how the various paths look/whether the timings would work for all concerned if/when the service does start up. Watch this space...

 

[Buzz68]

I see Machen Quarry is starting to receive more regular flows now, having run the last 2 Saturdays and is running again today with 66591 from Stoke Gifford. This must be the first mid week flow for many years.

 

[ExRes]

No further info at the moment but Cloburn supply a lot of track ballast.

In other good news GBRF are purchasing 32 additional Ecofret container flats from WH Davis with possibly more to follow.

Latest from RGI, these wagons are triples, so that makes 96 beds altogether.

The first 8 of the two orders for 52 and 32 ecofret2 triples was moved from WH Davis Shirebrook to Gascoigne Wood Sdgs yesterday by DCR

 

[furnessvale]

Not such good news for railfreight as DfT gives permission for "trials" of 3000 25.25m long 60 tonnes weight HGVs on UK roads. The length is bad enough, but if the weight is allowed to spill over into other goods, it could be serious for bulks like aggregates, steel coils or a host of other goods.

"DfT is planning a major trial of around 3,000 25m artics on Britain’s roads this year and will drum up support for the trial by giving Denby Transport permission to use its Eco-Link B-double road train as a demonstrator from next month."

Denby Eco-Link to hit the road ahead of major trial of 25.25m artics

60-tonne B-double road trains to be trialled in the UK

www.commercialmotor.com

 

[AndrewE]

Not such good news for railfreight as DfT gives permission for "trials" of 3000 25.25m long 60 tonnes weight HGVs on UK roads. The length is bad enough, but if the weight is allowed to spill over into other goods, it could be serious for bulks like aggregates, steel coils or a host of other goods.

"DfT is planning a major trial of around 3,000 25m artics on Britain’s roads this year and will drum up support for the trial by giving Denby Transport permission to use its Eco-Link B-double road train as a demonstrator from next month."

Denby Eco-Link to hit the road ahead of major trial of 25.25m artics

60-tonne B-double road trains to be trialled in the UK

www.commercialmotor.com

It's bad news for the rest of us (taxpayers) too. Road "wear" is proportional to at least the fourth power of the axle weight, so unless they go to 4-axle rear bogies this is going to create the need for a lot of repairs.
I remember a TV programme about 30 years ago that went into it in quite a lot of detail. It explained that the real killer (of tarmac) is the time it is allowed to recoil before being loaded again. At that time double rear axles with four wheels on each was the norm: with higher-rated "Super-single" tyres the industry moved to the same or a bigger weight... on 6 tyres instead of 8 on 2 axles, giving 3 compressions in quick succession instead of 2, and much heavier compressions into the bargain. They saved costs, the rest of us pay for it.

 

[AndrewE]

p.s. I now see that it's a sort of a road train.
I wonder whether the device (shown on Tomorrow's World) that locked up the 5th wheel when braking ever went into production? It will really be needed on these .

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I wonder if anyone considered the implications for pedestrians and cyclists through the use of these monsters. The article is full of support for the concept, but it is a road hauliers publication.

 

[furnessvale]

I wonder if anyone considered the implications for pedestrians and cyclists through the use of these monsters. The article is full of support for the concept, but it is a road hauliers publication.

As with all previous weight and size increases, road hauliers will claim that these new HGVs are meant to be used on long distance motorway work. They will then fight like hell to ensure no restrictions are placed on their general use on all other roads.

 

[ABB125]

As with all previous weight and size increases, road hauliers will claim that these new HGVs are meant to be used on long distance motorway work. They will then fight like hell to ensure no restrictions are placed on their general use on all other roads.

Although, to be fair, if they were restricted to motorways only, they would be absolutely no use to anybody (since to get from the motorway to the distribution centre, they will have to travel across non-motorway roads... ).
Plus there are some places that might warrant the use of extra-large lorries, but aren't connected to the motorway network (Plymouth, for example).

However, personally I don't think larger lorries are needed.

 

[furnessvale]

Although, to be fair, if they were restricted to motorways only, they would be absolutely no use to anybody (since to get from the motorway to the distribution centre, they will have to travel across non-motorway roads... ).
Plus there are some places that might warrant the use of extra-large lorries, but aren't connected to the motorway network (Plymouth, for example).

However, personally I don't think larger lorries are needed.

Very sensible comment but perhaps I should have emphasised ALL other roads. They have consistently fought tooth and nail against ANY restrictions over and above existing individual weight limits.

 

[ABB125]

Very sensible comment but perhaps I should have emphasised ALL other roads. They have consistently fought tooth and nail against ANY restrictions over and above existing individual weight limits.

Of course; it's only to be expected!

 

[The Planner]

Not such good news for railfreight as DfT gives permission for "trials" of 3000 25.25m long 60 tonnes weight HGVs on UK roads. The length is bad enough, but if the weight is allowed to spill over into other goods, it could be serious for bulks like aggregates, steel coils or a host of other goods.

"DfT is planning a major trial of around 3,000 25m artics on Britain’s roads this year and will drum up support for the trial by giving Denby Transport permission to use its Eco-Link B-double road train as a demonstrator from next month."

Still need around 35 to replace a single aggregate train.

 

[Danor97]

Some jumbo coal services likely to run again next week Redcar to Scunny...

 

[furnessvale]

Still need around 35 to replace a single aggregate train.

Yes, but given the thin margins in aggregates, that is a BIG difference from requiring 75 HGV drivers to do the job

 

[ExRes]

Yes, but given the thin margins in aggregates, that is a BIG difference from requiring 75 HGV drivers to do the job

How long and for what distance can an HGV driver work though? I have no idea, but a quick look on google says 210-250 miles and 4 hours from Boston to Carlisle which is obviously by car, could 1 HGV driver do that or would it require 2, which would mean 70 drivers, or a stop en route? DCR have one change of driver for their aggregate train over that route

 

[markymark2000]

How long and for what distance can an HGV driver work though? I have no idea, but a quick look on google says 210-250 miles and 4 hours from Boston to Carlisle which is obviously by car, could 1 HGV driver do that or would it require 2, which would mean 70 drivers, or a stop en route? DCR have one change of driver for their aggregate train over that route

4hrs would be fine for HGVs but a break would have to be taken before and after the load. In sure Google has like a 60 speed limit on motorways whereas HGVs would only be going 56mph. More opportunity for delays as well could incress that journey time. Based off the 4hrs though, that would be ok.

Very simply put, HGV driving hours are 4.5hrs driving then 45 min break.

 

[furnessvale]

How long and for what distance can an HGV driver work though? I have no idea, but a quick look on google says 210-250 miles and 4 hours from Boston to Carlisle which is obviously by car, could 1 HGV driver do that or would it require 2, which would mean 70 drivers, or a stop en route? DCR have one change of driver for their aggregate train over that route

Long distance flows would probably still be safe but shorter distances are vulnerable.

For example, Peak district to various locations in the Manchester area. Currently, the road competition works on how many round trips each lorry can fit in a day. The simple act of opening the Chapel byepass reduced the round trip time by, perhaps an hour, which really hammered the rail traffic. It took a lot of work by the newly privatised FOCs to regain some of that traffic.

 

[Oxfordblues]

On a brighter note, GBRf have started a new service of aggregates from Portbury to Acton: News - GB Railfreight Limited

 

[squizzler]

Not such good news for railfreight as DfT gives permission for "trials" of 3000 25.25m long 60 tonnes weight HGVs on UK roads. The length is bad enough, but if the weight is allowed to spill over into other goods, it could be serious for bulks like aggregates, steel coils or a host of other goods.

I think one of the few benefits of leaving the EU is that there is no need to allow the continental lorries anymore. In fact there is good argument that we are free to set our own limits on size to suit our highway network.

The only positive is that the lorry trade is likely to be awash with secondhand equipment for quite a few years, in the UK at least, and it will be a while before any of the firms are in a position to re-equip.

 

[Geeves]

The extra long HGV comes around every few years and its yet to take off. As said above the UK roads are simply not suitable except for the major motorways. Even if they did have two trailers what happens at the depot? It wont be a simple case of backing up to the bay as is the case of most modern warehouses. Maybe it would be okay for pallet loads loaded from the side but thats not really going to upset the railway.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The extra long HGV comes around every few years and its yet to take off. As said above the UK roads are simply not suitable except for the major motorways. Even if they did have two trailers what happens at the depot? It wont be a simple case of backing up to the bay as is the case of most modern warehouses. Maybe it would be okay for pallet loads loaded from the side but thats not really going to upset the railway.

My concern is mission creep. A 'trial using motorways and direct connections to specific depots via specific roads only', expands to the inclusion of motorway standard dual carriageway trunk roads, then all trunk roads, and so on until they are permitted everywhere. 3,000 lorries seems a rather large number for a 'trial'. That level of investment cannot be discarded after 12 months.

As for 'what happens at the depot' the road-train could arrive at a distribution warehouse, detach the rearmost trailer which is then put into a bay by a tug, and the front trailer is put into a bay by the main tractor unit.

 

[Geeves]

Yes thats true but what loads are these curtain side trailers going to be carrying? It wont be bulk loads which is the majority of what is carried on the railway today. Yes on paper alone it looks like a large amount but its not when you consider the likes of Eddie Stobart have ordered 5000 truck cab and trailers in 5 years.

 

[furnessvale]

Yes thats true but what loads are these curtain side trailers going to be carrying? It wont be bulk loads which is the majority of what is carried on the railway today. Yes on paper alone it looks like a large amount but its not when you consider the likes of Eddie Stobart have ordered 5000 truck cab and trailers in 5 years.

Once the size and weight has been decided. who is to say what sort of body is placed on the HGV?

Stone and steel coil hauliers, to name but two, would love the 60tommes GVW allowed under this "trial".

 

[squizzler]

Perhaps this trial is a last ditch attempt to encourage EU goods traffic back onto the "land bridge"? I don't know what types of lorries are allowed in Ireland, but we do know only half the usual number of lorries is going through Holyhead. Maybe the government feel obliged to allow bigger types of lorries we never felt the need to allow before onto our roads. Talk about a "race to the bottom".

The other thing that occurs is that the industry seems to be going about a driver shortage in a self defeating way. Almost anyone can drive, but few are willing to get into lorry driving. I suspect the size of these lorries sets a very high barrier to entry, as they necessitate very stringent training. Lorry bosses then think that if the lorries were bigger, the driver shortage might be ameliorated. But then these even bigger lorries require even higher standards of driving than the previously largest ones and the pool of drivers willing to take them on is even smaller, so the driver shortage gets worse, and so the lorry business wants bigger lorries to increase driver productivity. And so on.

 

[Greybeard33]

The other thing that occurs is that the industry seems to be going about a driver shortage in a self defeating way. Almost anyone can drive, but few are willing to get into lorry driving. I suspect the size of these lorries sets a very high barrier to entry, as they necessitate very stringent training. Lorry bosses then think that if the lorries were bigger, the driver shortage might be ameliorated. But then these even bigger lorries require even higher standards of driving than the previously largest ones and the pool of drivers willing to take them on is even smaller, so the driver shortage gets worse, and so the lorry business wants bigger lorries to increase driver productivity. And so on.

No problem, we can just hire in some drivers from the EU like we always have before. Oh, wait....