Misuse of Spouse travel Pass

[MotCO]

I have told my rep about getting this statements but he’s response was that the company know about that already from my investigative statement as I did mention all that to them but them looking to get rid of me is what they will focus on doing because of all the policies they have stated that I came short of and didn’t abide by ... just don’t understand what he’s driving by, reading by he’s lines of word , he already saying it’s not worth fighting for

At the hearing, do not assume that the panel have read the previous report or know anything about the case. Even if they have read it, an oral presentation brings it to life, and makes it easier for you to stress certain points. You need to sell yourself like at an interview. It is your chance to state your side of the story, but keep it factual, relevant and don't waffle. You do need to prepare for this, to the extent of writing out a script or aide memoires, and even practice it reading it out aloud. This should make you more feel comfortable and confident. If the panel refuse to let you state your case, then this would not reflect well on them at any appeal or Tribunal.

Been trying to find other proof and evidence about the nature of our marriage but can’t find any as it was always an oral and confrontational matters and haven’t got any more physical evidence

It may be difficult to produce evidence - you hardly keep minutes of your meetings with your wife - but there may be anecdotes or other examples of how bad your marriage was. You are trying to paint a picture to build up your case. Evidence would be good, but anecdotes will help towards painting the picture.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just thinking out loud but would a statement from your estranged partner, if they are willing to give one, stating that you made them aware that pass could not be used for commuting and that you were not aware of the misuse be of any use?

Similarly, statements from any friends you may have stayed with who can confirm the relationship difficulties.

I'm not sure what weight a witness statement from someone who just defrauded the company to the tune of over £8,000 would carry, but my estimate is it would weigh less than the paper it's written on.

I’m afraid the problem here looks to be that your rep is not saying what you want to hear. His job is to represent you but you need to trust him to do the best job he can in very unfavourable circumstances. He* doesn’t think you’ve got a good defence case and I am inclined to agree, and in these circumstances he will need to use all his experience to try and derail the management case by finding fault with the procedural parts of it.

* Whoever represents you in the hearing.

I am inclined to think the OP's defence is weak too. Many posters here forget that a disciplinary and tribunal process must rest only on the balance of probabilities and it is not required for the accuser to prove anything at all. The absolute weakest thing about the OP's defence is the fact he has outlined perfectly, over a long period, how his wife should not have had the spousal pass in her possession. It is his responsibility to either withdraw it from her, or inform his employer/ATOC/whoever issued the pass.

Further, most spousal ATOC travel facilities are not a contractual benefit and can easily be withdrawn. It would certainly not be in the Union's interest to argue that when TOCs hand out passes, the TOC has no comeback if any party other than the employee abuses the pass - and certainly not to the tune of several thousand pounds!

The best hope of a defence here is procedural - the Union should be making sure all the internal procedures have been followed by management, as well as ensuring all the "breaches" of terms and conditions being levelled at him are kosher, and try to find something incorrect on their part.

At the hearing, do not assume that the panel have read the previous report or know anything about the case. Even if they have read it, an oral presentation brings it to life, and makes it easier for you to stress certain points. You need to sell yourself like at an interview. It is your chance to state your side of the story, but keep it factual, relevant and don't waffle. You do need to prepare for this, to the extent of writing out a script or aide memoires, and even practice it reading it out aloud. This should make you more feel comfortable and confident. If the panel refuse to let you state your case, then this would not reflect well on them at any appeal or Tribunal.



It may be difficult to produce evidence - you hardly keep minutes of your meetings with your wife - but there may be anecdotes or other examples of how bad your marriage was. You are trying to paint a picture to build up your case. Evidence would be good, but anecdotes will help towards painting the picture.

I would recommend that any picture he paints continues to rest on the premise that, for whatever reason, he was unable to withdraw the pass from his wife from whom he is estranged.

This is a particularly bad time to be involved with a Gross Misconduct charge. The railways are under the political microscope following the utter collapse in demand due to the virus, and in the future the railways will become cheaper to run and with fewer staff.

 

[Horizon22]

Thank for all your advice guys.

to be honest where ever have turned to hasn’t helped on this case.

my union hq were only advicing resigning is my option to take but they all not sounding convincing trying to fight this will yield results

they not sounding like building up a good defence for me but only seeing the charges I am facing with no one considering my circumstances and with that try to help me build a defence case.

which is why I really can’t decide on what step to take because there no one sounding like they can fight this for me within the union even though yes! This happened but my circumstances were way above me which has led to this


This was actually the case!

I bought the car she was using, she got me restricted using my car so she decide to get a car of her own before I can take mine but couldn’t drive the long distance journey so I help to go with her so I can collect my own car back and I can use it to commute to work... we only met up along the way to the destination as well we didn’t start or end a train journey together

I'm sorry to hear this. I'm also not that happy to tell you a similar situation happened twice at my TOC which had clamped down on two employees for (I believe) substantially lower fares uncovered by their partner/spouse; one resigned before the hearing, the other one went into the hearing and was summarily dismissed. It's a situation taken very seriously as a substantial misuse of staff privileges and many TOCs will have something along these lines listed in their code of conduct.

Ultimately the passes are your responsibility as they are issued through your employment. I know its tough to take, but if you do not have a really strong defence, the union advice might be the best way forward.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Given the union position, (and your own words, and the statements posted), my advice would now be to eventually resign, but you can make it slightly more beneficial for yourself.

1) Seek a delay to the hearing - as long as you can negotiate. If you are feeling stressed or depressed, you may want to consider speaking to your GP and being signed off work for a little while, which is also a credible and evidenced reason for a delay.

2) Shortly before the hearing, send an offer of immediate resignation, but written in such a way that (if you genuinely do) appears regretful and that you are disappointed your career at that company has had to conclude in such a manner.

This will literally buy you a little bit more time (and wages) to find something else and prepare yourself, and also give you some thinking time as to whether you really will decide to resign. A 2 week delay is still 2 weeks additional salary.

 

[WesternLancer]

Given the union position, (and your own words, and the statements posted), my advice would now be to eventually resign, but you can make it slightly more beneficial for yourself.

1) Seek a delay to the hearing - as long as you can negotiate. If you are feeling stressed or depressed, you may want to consider speaking to your GP and being signed off work for a little while, which is also a credible and evidenced reason for a delay.

2) Shortly before the hearing, send an offer of immediate resignation, but written in such a way that (if you genuinely do) appears regretful and that you are disappointed your career at that company has had to conclude in such a manner.

This will literally buy you a little bit more time (and wages) to find something else and prepare yourself, and also give you some thinking time as to whether you really will decide to resign. A 2 week delay is still 2 weeks additional salary.

I very much disagree with this line of approach - for what it's worth. Better advice on course of action up thread.

 

[ukkid]

Its unfortunate the OP didn't get independent legal advice a long time ago and doesn't appear to have been able to delay the hearing.
If they're not happy with the outcome on Monday they can and shy still seek some legal advice.

 

[LCC106]

I definitely disagree with Tazi Hupefi! If the OP goes off sick and then resigns, any request for a reference may be met with a FACTUAL response from HR that he went off sick then resigned whilst facing disciplinary proceedings. It’s a myth that they cannot give a bad reference. They can give a factual one such as I mention here. Please do not resign. Remember as has been said several times before IF the outcome is dismissal you will have a right to appeal against the decision!

 

[najaB]

It’s a myth that they cannot give a bad reference.

No, it's not entirely myth. Employers aren't allowed to make subjectively negative comments on a reference.

They can give a factual one such as I mention here.

Because they are allowed to make objectively true statements of fact.

 

[matt_world2004]

Some employers only confirm dates of employment in their reference . No matter how good you are. TfL is one. I think some TOCs do as well

 

[LCC106]

Sorry, I should have elaborated, they can indeed give an objective factual reference.

Some employers only confirm dates of employment in their reference . No matter how good you are. TfL is one. I think some TOCs do as well

Correct.

 

[Horizon22]

I definitely disagree with Tazi Hupefi! If the OP goes off sick and then resigns, any request for a reference may be met with a FACTUAL response from HR that he went off sick then resigned whilst facing disciplinary proceedings. It’s a myth that they cannot give a bad reference. They can give a factual one such as I mention here. Please do not resign. Remember as has been said several times before IF the outcome is dismissal you will have a right to appeal against the decision!

Not really. They'll just factually state that the employee left on XX date after resigning. That's why people resign before disciplinaries regularly as they can see the "writing on the wall".

 

[MissPWay]

IME

Not really. They'll just factually state that the employee left on XX date after resigning. That's why people resign before disciplinaries regularly as they can see the "writing on the wall".

It’s all irrelevant anyway, the railway is a small incestuous world and managers from different companies tend move about and know one another.

There’ll just be an “off the record,” conversation between friends.

I have a huge amount of sympathy with the OP. This is basically coming down to a gamble and and an assessment of the odds unfortunately.

 

[Horizon22]

IME


It’s all irrelevant anyway, the railway is a small incestuous world and managers from different companies tend move about and know one another.

There’ll just be an “off the record,” conversation between friends.

I have a huge amount of sympathy with the OP. This is basically coming down to a gamble and and an assessment of the odds unfortunately.

Will have nothing to do with the manager(s) - it's about the case in point which will the company will see as them being defrauded of thousands of pounds. And there are hundreds of managers, you put a lot of faith in a large network of managers all conspiring with each other when I am aware of staff who have been effectively sacked at one TOC moving onto another one just months later! I do have sympathy with the OP too, but my - admittedly anecdotal evidence - (see my post above #123) suggests that company's take a very dim view of spousal passes being abused and give little credence to extenuating circumstances. It was drilled into us after several staff lost their jobs.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Not really. They'll just factually state that the employee left on XX date after resigning. That's why people resign before disciplinaries regularly as they can see the "writing on the wall".

It's perhaps worth amplifying a bit on this. Someone who resigns before a disciplinary hearing will have a reference saying (if they're lucky) that they resigned: if they're unlucky it will say that they resigned before a disciplinary hearing.

What about someone who goes through the disciplinary hearing and is summarily dismissed? Their reference will say just that - that they were summarily dismissed. And it will be much harder to get a new job if your reference says that you were sacked, rather than that you quit.

 

[najaB]

And it will be much harder to get a new job if your reference says that you were sacked, rather than that you quit.

For the OP - yes, if the worst happens and you were dismissed it would be harder to get a new job, but harder does not mean impossible.

I know I only represent a single data point, but I was dismissed in somewhat similar circumstances to those you find yourself in. But because I had a very good service record, and my direct manager was willing to give a personal (not professional!) reference it actually only took me a little over two months to find a new job. I don't doubt that the fact that when he spoke with my now current boss the message was "We didn't want to fire him, but we had to..." played a big part in that.

What kind of relationship do you have with your manager? Do you think they would be willing to give a personal reference?

 

[Tallguy]

It's perhaps worth amplifying a bit on this. Someone who resigns before a disciplinary hearing will have a reference saying (if they're lucky) that they resigned: if they're unlucky it will say that they resigned before a disciplinary hearing.

What about someone who goes through the disciplinary hearing and is summarily dismissed? Their reference will say just that - that they were summarily dismissed. And it will be much harder to get a new job if your reference says that you were sacked, rather than that you quit.

How do you know that if someone is dismissed their reference will say exactly that? Many companies don’t want to risk opening a can of worms so they just give a simple reference of dates employed and job title.

Given the union position, (and your own words, and the statements posted), my advice would now be to eventually resign, but you can make it slightly more beneficial for yourself.

1) Seek a delay to the hearing - as long as you can negotiate. If you are feeling stressed or depressed, you may want to consider speaking to your GP and being signed off work for a little while, which is also a credible and evidenced reason for a delay.

2) Shortly before the hearing, send an offer of immediate resignation, but written in such a way that (if you genuinely do) appears regretful and that you are disappointed your career at that company has had to conclude in such a manner.

This will literally buy you a little bit more time (and wages) to find something else and prepare yourself, and also give you some thinking time as to whether you really will decide to resign. A 2 week delay is still 2 weeks additional salary.

I am so glad that you and Horizon22 are not legal advisors. In my opinion your advice is some of the worst possible. Why are you suggesting someone resigns when they don’t have to And the disciplinary they face May not result in dismissal? Unbelievable.

Nor should you be suggesting that the OP gets signed of sick under potentially false pretences immediately Before the scheduled hearing.

There is no guarantee the OP will be dismissed, whilst there are clear grounds for the misconduct proceedings there is a chance that dismissal will not happen. We need to be providing the OP with support at this time, not telling him to Jack his job in over a process that may not result in his dismissal And making potentially false sickness claims. The OP is under enough scrutiny already without you suggesting doing things that have the potential to backfire spectacularly. Remember that the HR manager of the relevant TOC May be reading this thread......

I have been through non railway disciplinary actions and not been fired. I fought it and won.

I wish the OP every success and luck on Monday and hope he will come back here and tell us the result.

And don’t resign.

 

[Haywain]

Remember that the HR manager of the relevant TOC May be reading this thread...

That really is highly unlikely and in any event should have no impact on the disciplinary process. The role of HR is to advise the manager taking the hearing on policy and process but not to decide the outcome. This is in the same way that a magistrate in a court is advised by a legal advisor.

 

[Tallguy]

That really is highly unlikely and in any event should have no impact on the disciplinary process. The role of HR is to advise the manager taking the hearing on policy and process but not to decide the outcome. This is in the same way that a magistrate in a court is advised by a legal advisor.

Exactly. So the relevant HR manager is reading this thread, identifies the case by the circumstances and before the disciplinary says to the relevant manager that ‘X has been on an online forum seeking advice. Some people have been telling him to resign and it looks like the union have abandoned him and he hasn’t taken legal advice elsewhere. Should be easy to get rid of him and no comeback on us via an employment tribunal.......go ahead and sack him’.

Or, ‘X has been on the big rail forum on the web, he has been given a lot of positive advice, has spoken to Lawyers, the union etc, if we want to avoid a tribunal then probably best to resolve this by withdrawing the spouse pass and issue a final written warning. ‘

Don’t think that these things don’t happen, they do.

 

[MissPWay]

Exactly. So the relevant HR manager is reading this thread, identifies the case by the circumstances and before the disciplinary says to the relevant manager that ‘X has been on an online forum seeking advice. Some people have been telling him to resign and it looks like the union have abandoned him and he hasn’t taken legal advice elsewhere. Should be easy to get rid of him and no comeback on us via an employment tribunal.......go ahead and sack him’.

Or, ‘X has been on the big rail forum on the web, he has been given a lot of positive advice, has spoken to Lawyers, the union etc, if we want to avoid a tribunal then probably best to resolve this by withdrawing the spouse pass and issue a final written warning. ‘

Don’t think that these things don’t happen, they do.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but this is a very very high stakes game of poker with outcomes:

1: OP has hearing + is dismissed + unsuccessfully appeals = unemployed in pandemic + cannot work in rail industry.

2: OP has hearing + is dismissed and successfully appeals = Good outcome.

3: OP is not dismissed.

3: OP resigns and can continue to work on rail industry elsewhere.

It’s not like being dismissed from a shop and then going to work in another shop. It’s like being dismissed from Tesco and being unable to work in retail + Tesco tries to reclaim their contributions to your pension.

 

[cadder toad]

Hi Hanson - I have some experience but in a different industry. I think you have a good case. You didn't seek to do harm to the company. An error of ommission not commission. You want to keep your job and you regret the situation arising is what I pick up from your posts.

If your union rep cant go on Monday then ask for a delay, adjournment/postponement. It is unfair for you not to have representation. You did what you could to get representation but its not available.

As for evidence - there's evidence from you. You don't need corroboration. What you say is important and will be listened to. Answer questions honestly and straightforwardly. Don't elaborate or justify. If they want to know more they will ask. (Its your rep's job to justify and elaborate as appropriate)

If it goes wrong you can appeal as others have said.

Good luck and try not to stress.

I can't grasp what the union position is. Are they saying resign or are they saying they'll give you advice on Monday? Either way you need time to understand your reps advice. Remember the union will know the HR people and possibly the managers involved better than a solicitor - that's one of the reasons for joining a union.

 

[philthetube]

Remember that the HR manager of the relevant TOC May be reading this thread......

That really is highly unlikely and in any event should have no impact on the disciplinary process. The role of HR is to advise the manager taking the hearing on policy and process but not to decide the outcome. This is in the same way that a magistrate in a court is advised by a legal advisor.

To be honest the manager reading this thread would probably be a good thing.

If your union rep is that bad, can you find someone else to take, maybe a friend who used to be a rep, or possibly even a rep from another union who you get on with.

 

[Hanson]

Guys, another thought that I am worried about now... really in a bad state at the moment.

My spouse is so apologetic now and just want to pay all the money back as she’s a nurse and don’t won’t to be prosecuted for the misuse of the pass as she think it will affect her employment been a registered nurse. Don’t know if this is going to be the case

please help me what can I do to help out, as I’m seeing myself out of job soon and won’t work deal with same thing with spouse

please help, there hasn’t been any letter sent through yet but due to the sum of the travel period the money must have to be repaid

 

[najaB]

please help me what can I do to help out, as I’m seeing myself out of job soon and won’t work deal with same thing with spouse

Don't panic! You're already doing what you can do.

Try to get a delay to the hearing, if they insist on going ahead on Monday make sure that one of the first things you say is that you were unable to get the necessary advice because of the pandemic, and restate that you asked for a delay but it wasn't granted. That may well, in itself, give you grounds to appeal if things don't go your way.

Then follow the advice you've already been given.

Try to find someone you trust to accompany you to the hearing.

If the facts aren't in question, don't challenge them. Rather, state that yes, your spouse did misuse the pass, and yes it was your responsibility to get it back from her or tell the TOC to cancel it - but bring whatever evidence you can to show that your state of mind and the state of the relationship meant that you simply forgot to do so.

Apologise and offer to pay them back for the losses.

Explain what you're doing about the relationship.

 

[LCC106]

Would those with more knowledge suggest (with the change of attitude from the spouse) that she write a statement explaining the state of their marriage, that husband was not complicit, that she didn’t realise the seriousness of the matter and would be willing to make payments at an agreed rate to cover the costs of any losses? If so, should she write in her letter that she would be willing to attend the disciplinary hearing if they adjourn to enable her to explain her side and answer any questions?

 

[MotCO]

I know it may be easier said than done, but try to disregard the implications for your wife for the time being. You have 48 hours or so before your hearing, just try to focus on that - afterwards you can address your wife's issues.

I think the general consensus is that you may be found to have committed a gross misconduct; your focus must be on setting out the mitigation to minimise the punishment.

If the facts aren't in question, don't challenge them. Rather, state that yes, your spouse did misuse the pass, and yes it was your responsibility to get it back from her or tell the TOC to cancel it - but bring whatever evidence you can to show that your state of mind and the state of the relationship meant that you simply forgot to do so.

Apologise and offer to pay them back for the losses.

Explain what you're doing about the relationship.

I agree with najaB, but be aware there are some potential holes in your defence, for which you need to prepare your answers. For example:

• Are you still living in the same house as your wife? That on the face of it does not suggest a broken marriage, so you may need to set out reasons for that. It may be lack of options, lack of money etc, but you need to have an answer.
• If you are living under the same roof, you need to demonstrate how separate your lives are. Do you eat separate meals etc? If not, why not?
• We have already discussed the train journeys to buy a second car - again, prepare your answers.

(We don't need to know the answers to these questions, but you should prepare your answers for the hearing on Monday.)

You need to demonstrate that you had told your wife of the limitations on the use of the pass, that you had no knowledge that she was using it inappropriately, and that you had no control over your wife. (But beware of the follow up question - if you could not control the actions of your wife, why did you not ask your wife to return the pass?)

Good Luck.

 

[Tallguy]

Guys, another thought that I am worried about now... really in a bad state at the moment.

My spouse is so apologetic now and just want to pay all the money back as she’s a nurse and don’t won’t to be prosecuted for the misuse of the pass as she think it will affect her employment been a registered nurse. Don’t know if this is going to be the case

please help me what can I do to help out, as I’m seeing myself out of job soon and won’t work deal with same thing with spouse

please help, there hasn’t been any letter sent through yet but due to the sum of the travel period the money must have to be repaid

Your Union may have been useless but there are those of us on here who will help you as much as we possibly can.

As najaB has stated, you can ask for a 14 day adjournment citing the Pandemic as the reason you have been unable to get the advice you need. If that is granted then great it gives you breathing room to go back to your Union and insist on speaking with their Lawyers - it isn’t the decision of a local rep to decide these things, your Union membership entitles you to legal advice and that is what you need. I suggest you will find it difficult to get specialist legal advice over the weekend and at such a late stage.

If the hearing does go ahead, as has been suggested, be contrite, take details of the relationship breakdown with you, potentially talk about how other things overtook you due to the relationship failure and you forgot to recover the pass or get it cancelled. Don’t challenge the facts, listen more than talk and above all stay calm.

Take someone you trust with you if you can. This situation can be recovered And you can come out of this with your job in tact.

I know it may be easier said than done, but try to disregard the implications for your wife for the time being. You have 48 hours or so before your hearing, just try to focus on that - afterwards you can address your wife's issues.

I think the general consensus is that you may be found to have committed a gross misconduct; your focus must be on setting out the mitigation to minimise the punishment.



I agree with najaB, but be aware there are some potential holes in your defence, for which you need to prepare your answers. For example:

• Are you still living in the same house as your wife? That on the face of it does not suggest a broken marriage, so you may need to set out reasons for that. It may be lack of options, lack of money etc, but you need to have an answer.
• If you are living under the same roof, you need to demonstrate how separate your lives are. Do you eat separate meals etc? If not, why not?
• We have already discussed the train journeys to buy a second car - again, prepare your answers.

(We don't need to know the answers to these questions, but you should prepare your answers for the hearing on Monday.)

You need to demonstrate that you had told your wife of the limitations on the use of the pass, that you had no knowledge that she was using it inappropriately, and that you had no control over your wife. (But beware of the follow up question - if you could not control the actions of your wife, why did you not ask your wife to return the pass?)

Good Luck.

MotCO makes some wise comments. Get yourself prepared. And good luck to you, please let us know how it goes, we are fighting your corner.

 

[WesternLancer]

Good luck @Hanson. some good advice on here in recent posts.

Perhaps as a request to those of us on the forum trying to help ahead of Monday - we need to focus on help for Hanson up to that point and not get distracted off into things like loss of pension / what references might be like / how it might not come up OK etc - as that will just be adding to the OPs stress over next few days and will not serve to help with immediate issue.

 

[Horizon22]

How do you know that if someone is dismissed their reference will say exactly that? Many companies don’t want to risk opening a can of worms so they just give a simple reference of dates employed and job title.


I am so glad that you and Horizon22 are not legal advisors. In my opinion your advice is some of the worst possible. Why are you suggesting someone resigns when they don’t have to And the disciplinary they face May not result in dismissal? Unbelievable.

Nor should you be suggesting that the OP gets signed of sick under potentially false pretences immediately Before the scheduled hearing.

There is no guarantee the OP will be dismissed, whilst there are clear grounds for the misconduct proceedings there is a chance that dismissal will not happen. We need to be providing the OP with support at this time, not telling him to Jack his job in over a process that may not result in his dismissal And making potentially false sickness claims. The OP is under enough scrutiny already without you suggesting doing things that have the potential to backfire spectacularly. Remember that the HR manager of the relevant TOC May be reading this thread......

I have been through non railway disciplinary actions and not been fired. I fought it and won.

I wish the OP every success and luck on Monday and hope he will come back here and tell us the result.

And don’t resign.

Again (for the 3rd time), I go from my own experience whereby I have seen colleagues in the same position and they have been summarily dismissed. And that is not something you want on your record for potentially years to come.

I have seen and heard of plenty cases whereby a good Union rep will actually advise resigning because it is cut and dry that the alleged offence a) took place and b) is clearly defined in the company's code of conduct. It is quite possible that the OP is in this unfortunate situation. You don't need to be a "legal adviser" to recommend this. I have also been in disciplinary situations and won, but the facts were much more poorly ill-defined and my case was much much stronger. Why would a resignation "backfire spectacularly"? I agree that if it is believed that the gross misconduct charge is severely overtrumped you'd have lost your job when you might have just got a warning, but the Union rep evidently doesn't think it is.

If he wants to fight it, by all means ask for an adjournment and it is right they have the time to collate all the information & facts. But it is a gamble to take when the company clearly has evidence of wrong-doing. The only mitigating factor is the breakdown in the relationship, but sadly I don't think that would be enough to persuade a senior manager without strong evidence as @MotCO mentions. I'm all for wishing colleagues well but there's no point just blindly wishing "good luck" when the OP is very, very close to losing their job and that reality needs to be faced head-on.

 

[WesternLancer]

Again (for the 3rd time), I go from my own experience whereby I have seen colleagues in the same position and they have been summarily dismissed. And that is not something you want on your record for potentially years to come.

I have seen and heard of plenty cases whereby a good Union rep will actually advise resigning because it is cut and dry that the alleged offence a) took place and b) is clearly defined in the company's code of conduct. It is quite possible that the OP is in this unfortunate situation. You don't need to be a "legal adviser" to recommend this. I have also been in disciplinary situations and won, but the facts were much more poorly ill-defined and my case was much much stronger. Why would a resignation "backfire spectacularly"? I agree that if it is believed that the gross misconduct charge is severely overtrumped you'd have lost your job when you might have just got a warning, but the Union rep evidently doesn't think it is.

If he wants to fight it, by all means ask for an adjournment and it is right they have the time to collate all the information & facts. But it is a gamble to take when the company clearly has evidence of wrong-doing. The only mitigating factor is the breakdown in the relationship, but sadly I don't think that would be enough to persuade a senior manager without strong evidence as @MotCO mentions. I'm all for wishing colleagues well but there's no point just blindly wishing "good luck" when the OP is very, very close to losing their job and that reality needs to be faced head-on.

I just don't think this point helps at this stage. Only thing achieved by resigning is maybe getting a 'least worse' reference. That, in my view, is not beneficial outcome enough to make it worth resigning instead of putting up your best case at the hearing monday or when it is deffered to, and when a solicitor may be able to be engaged to help too.

 

[najaB]

I just don't think this point helps at this stage.

It helps in as much as it lays out a possible course of action that the OP could take, and the pros and cons of taking it.