Great Western Railway Heathrow Express Class 387 Refittment and Service Updates

[JN114]

Oh it’ll improve once the crews get used to it, I was very much referring to the here and now - we’re on what, day 5 of these running?

 

[T-Karmel]

Oh it’ll improve once the crews get used to it, I was very much referring to the here and now - we’re on what, day 5 of these running?

I see, that's fine. Thanks.

 

[paulravuslante]

So how do they want to operate single platform in Padd then? For my understanding that was always going to be a thing since introduction of 387s until (I think) end of 2021. That means that if it was not for COVID, 387s were already in service since June 2020 with single platform operation and stepping up all the time, like they did with 332s on a full timetable.
They'll be only safe if HEX won't return to full timetable until Elizabeth tunnels open fully. I hope coming back to normal won't take that long!

Single platform running for Hex at Pad was introduced with GWRs Dec 2019 timetable change. It was for the benefit of GWRs peak time operation.

 

[JN114]

Single platform running for Hex at Pad was introduced with GWRs Dec 2019 timetable change. It was for the benefit of GWRs peak time operation.

No it was to provide TfL with a second platform to use for Crossrail services, as the semi-fast Didcot services used to interwork with the now TfL Reading services; and that was impossible once those Readings transferred to TfL. HEx goes back to 2 platform operation once Crossrail services run through the core, that’s all already agreed and signed off; just waiting for it to happen.

 

[paulravuslante]

No it was to provide TfL with a second platform to use for Crossrail services, as the semi-fast Didcot services used to interwork with the now TfL Reading services; and that was impossible once those Readings transferred to TfL. HEx goes back to 2 platform operation once Crossrail services run through the core, that’s all already agreed

It sounded as if the poster I was replying to seemed to think it was linked with the introduction of the 387s to Hex though.

GWR are the ones using platform 6 due to TfL.

 

[T-Karmel]

It sounded as if the poster I was replying to seemed to think it was linked with the introduction of the 387s to Hex though.

GWR are the ones using platform 6 due to TfL.

What I said was supposed to mean that single platform was already in operation with 332s on their full timetable (between December 2019 and lockdown) and it will need to be in operation once again whenever HEX 387s start running full timetable until Elizabeth line start running AND goes underground in Paddington.

It is GWR using platform 6 indeed but it is caused by TfL Rail taking platform away from them.

 

[paulravuslante]

What I said was supposed to mean that single platform was already in operation with 332s on their full timetable (between December 2019 and lockdown) and it will need to be in operation once again whenever HEX 387s start running full timetable until Elizabeth line start running AND goes underground in Paddington.

It is GWR using platform 6 indeed but it is caused by TfL Rail taking platform away from them.

Ok but platform 6 was bring used by GWR in the week leading to Christmas this year. The increase in service / introduction of 387 to Hex makes no difference to the platform usage at Paddington now.

Incidentally the full Hex timetable has been postponed to 18th January.

 

[JonathanH]

Incidentally the full Hex timetable has been postponed to 18th January.

Are they really going to put it up to 4tph in the light of the extension of 'stay at home' restrictions? Recent experience appears to suggest that they review the service on a periodic basis and conclude that it makes sense to remain at 2tph.

 

[paulravuslante]

Are they really going to put it up to 4tph in the light of the extension of 'stay at home' restrictions? Recent experience appears to suggest that they review the service on a periodic basis and conclude that it makes sense to remain at 2tph.

All I know is I was briefed as running to T4 from today and then this morning was told it was all off. The split headcodes for TfL services are a symptom of this which should be corrected in a few days.

Looking at it another way, with it being so quiet, now is probably the perfect time to run a full service to try and iron out bugs / increase staff familiarisation.

 

[JonathanH]

Looking at it another way, with it being so quiet, now is probably the perfect time to run a full service to try and iron out bugs / increase staff familiarisation.

Yes, seems almost worth sending 4tph of 387s and 4tph of 345s to Heathrow to continue to iron out problems. However, the value of doing so would appear to depend on whether running the full service would actually provide useful experience / data to make things work better, over and above just running 2tph and having more slack to resolve problems as they arise. There would appear to be little benefit of just ending up with congestion at Heathrow or units delaying each other because they get stuck behind another failed unit.

 

[JN114]

We’ve just been told “as soon as practical” without a date on it - I think Jan 18th may be a tad ambitious.

 

[paulravuslante]

Yes, seems almost worth sending 4tph of 387s and 4tph of 345s to Heathrow to continue to iron out problems. However, the value of doing so would appear to depend on whether running the full service would actually provide useful experience / data to make things work better, over and above just running 2tph and having more slack to resolve problems as they arise. There would appear to be little benefit of just ending up with congestion at Heathrow or units delaying each other because they get stuck behind another failed unit.

You mentioned in the 345 thread that TfL seem to be struggling to come up with enough 9 car units for the current service pattern however. So a way to go before we run the full service. My money would be us attempting it at the May timetable change.

Incidentally the full Hex timetable has been postponed to 18th January.

Noticed this poster at Paddington which to me suggests that Hex will increase their service to 4tph from 1st February. On checking RTT website it shows 4tph from T5 starting on 25/01/21: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/HWV/2021-01-25/0604?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Horizon22]

Until about 10am today, the HeX service only had 2 fit 387s, so negative step-ups were being done at Paddington, resulting in trains leaving approximately 10 minutes late.

The first one to run to time was the 1025 departure: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C98849/2021-01-12/detailed

As for HeX going up to 4tph, we're in fairly similar restrictions to March so again I doubt there would be much sense in it, other than giving the 387s more in service time.

 

[paulravuslante]

You mentioned in the 345 thread that TfL seem to be struggling to come up with enough 9 car units for the current service pattern however. So a way to go before we run the full service. My money would be us attempting it at the May timetable change.


Noticed this poster at Paddington which to me suggests that Hex will increase their service to 4tph from 1st February. On checking RTT website it shows 4tph from T5 starting on 25/01/21: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/HWV/2021-01-25/0604?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The date on the notice for changes to TfL Rail services to Heathrow has slipped to 15th February now.

 

[cakefiend]

Out of interest, what's the reason for only 8-car sets being cleared through to Heathrow?

 

[swt_passenger]

Out of interest, what's the reason for only 8-car sets being cleared through to Heathrow?

12 car are too long for the platforms?

 

[cakefiend]

12 car are too long for the platforms?

I was more meaning why a single set (4-car) can't run.

 

[swt_passenger]

I was more meaning why a single set (4-car) can't run.

Sorry, in which case I don’t know.

 

[Energy]

I was more meaning why a single set (4-car) can't run.

I believe it is the ETCS software hasn't been certified for 4 car yet.

 

[cakefiend]

I believe it is the ETCS software hasn't been certified for 4 car yet.

That makes sense, thank you.

 

[Horizon22]

HeX are planning to go back to 4tph from late February / early March. Not sure why unless forced as I can't imagine the passenger numbers require it.

 

[matt_world2004]

HeX are planning to go back to 4tph from late February / early March. Not sure why unless forced as I can't imagine the passenger numbers require it.

Perhaps passengers are generally unwilling to pay £30 for a service that is every 30 minutes and for an 15 mile journey. I would guess a 15 minute frequency increases the value of the proposition considerably

I have been doing a lot of work at Ealing Broadway and Hayes and Harlington this week. You can roughly see the loadings when the hex goes through the station. I have never noticed more than 4-5 passengers on it and it has averaged about 2.

 

[Horizon22]

Perhaps passengers are generally unwilling to pay £30 for a service that is every 30 minutes and for an 15 mile journey. I would guess a 15 minute frequency increases the value of the proposition considerably

I have been doing a lot of work at Ealing Broadway and Hayes and Harlington this week. You can roughly see the loadings when the hex goes through the station. I have never noticed more than 4-5 passengers on it and it has averaged about 2.

Maybe, but I just generally think that the demand isn't there for the airport in total. Perhaps the TfL services have more people but I haven't seen evidence of that.

 

[Ianno87]

HeX are planning to go back to 4tph from late February / early March. Not sure why unless forced as I can't imagine the passenger numbers require it.

I wonder if Heathrow Express can access (from Heathrow Airport) forecast future flight bookings, so can tailor demand accordingly.

 

[Horizon22]

I wonder if Heathrow Express can access (from Heathrow Airport) forecast future flight bookings, so can tailor demand accordingly.

That's a good possibility, there's obviously a lot of discourse about post-March being when restrictions are planned to at least be a reduced. Still I think they'd be pretty much the only service running 100% frequency.

 

[matt_world2004]

Maybe, but I just generally think that the demand isn't there for the airport in total. Perhaps the TfL services have more people but I haven't seen evidence of that.

I reckon they could probably improve the yield by having cheaper walk up prices.

There are usually less than 20 passengers on the tfl rail when it comes into Hayes. A significant amount appear to be Heathrow airport employees (and thus not paying the full fare) or people travelling west of Hayes and Harlington based on the difficulties they have carrying cases across the footbridge.

 

[Horizon22]

I reckon they could probably improve the yield by having cheaper walk up prices.

There are usually less than 20 passengers on the tfl rail when it comes into Hayes. A significant amount appear to be Heathrow airport employees (and thus not paying the full fare) or people travelling west of Hayes and Harlington based on the difficulties they have carrying cases across the footbridge.

That seems odd - why wouldn't they be on the Reading or GWR services?

 

[matt_world2004]

That seems odd - why wouldn't they be on the Reading or GWR services?

They are getting the first train from Heathrow to Hayes and getting first train west from Hayes . I guess a significant amount of them are going to Slough or reading and would be quicker taking a bus/coach. But because neither of those are on the tube map they are ignored.

 

[Horizon22]

They are getting the first train from Heathrow to Hayes and getting first train west from Hayes . I guess a significant amount of them are going to Slough or reading and would be quicker taking a bus/coach. But because neither of those are on the tube map they are ignored.

Ah right sorry I misunderstood - yes that's quite likely and a change at Hayes probably quicker than a bus. HeX obviously doesn't stop there so they've only the one option. I was more considering the numbers of passengers going west from Paddington or Ealing Broadway to the airport and whether there's justifiable demand for 4tph.

 

[JN114]

I expect the reasons are likely more around politics/contracts, than 4tph being “needed” per se.