Anybody been invited to the Newport factory to actually sit in it and test out whether the seats have a better cushion? It really would be useful to let some people go and view the train and make comments before they proceed to roll out any more.
It can’t do Fainsa any good to hear all the criticism of their Sophia seats & is likely to lead to competing companies winning orders in future. It would be clearly be in Fainsa’s interests to try and improve the seat base and this would surely have no impact on the fitting size wise into these trains.
I'm not sure how much effect it has, there are basically 4 options now in the UK, the Fainsa Comrail (ironing board), Fainsa Sophia, FISA Lean (used on Flirts) and Kiel (used on GA 720s and LNWR 730s) and the Fainsa Comrail seems to be winning most orders.
As long as it's a cheaper product then the competition, I doubt it will struggle.
Not good that they would always go for cheapos! I wonder how many people would purchase a car with hard uncomfortable seats?
Yes but passengers aren't buying the train as their own property are they?
Maybe if the TOCs frequently offered prices of about 1p per mile like Ryanair often does (Cardiff to Manchester for £1.69 anyone?
), then I would understand this argument, but the Anytime Single between the two is £79, so I think a bit more quality is a reasonable expectation.And we all know who's the one that pushes for trains to be a cheep as possible.
Indeed - though we should remember that in this case, it was the Welsh Assembly who pushed for a more premium option then the cheapest Fainsa ironing board. I suspect there would be less chance of that happening in England (and you only have to look at the seats fitted to the Northern 195/331 fleet to see that).
“Better than the Sophia” is damning with faint praise. It’s a bit like asking if you’d rather have the flu or Covid - actually you want neither.
Again, both subjective. Personally I'd disagree with both of you. But a goodness knows this thread is filled with enough seat wibble as it is without us going around in circles yet again.
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It's the Senedd or Welsh Parliament these days not the Welsh Assembly.
If they're the same as the ones on the 195s - which I see no reason for them not to be - then they're supplied by iFE, if that information is of any use to you.
That's a point I often bring people up on, but they were still an Assembly when they ordered those seats.
Railfuture Wales were planning a visit to the Newport factory before COVID hit and the event was cancelled although I think the funding decision to switch to Sophias would have been made before the visit took place even without COVID. At the Modern Railways 4th Friday Club virtual Rail in Wales and the West conference it was revealed that a class 197 mock up exists so there would probably have been something to look at even before the first class 197 was completed.
What's happened to Grammer? Are they just too expensive for today's TOCs?
The problem is that the people buying the trains have alot more to think about than is it going to be nice to travel on and are under presure to reduce costs.
Could be that the regulations changed, the 398 tram trains were pictured using them so it may just be regulations.
Price will always be a concern, the Welsh railways are already heavily subsidised, I'm sure if they had a bigger money pot the people who chose the fleets would have picked an entirely Stadler Flirt fleet.
I believe one of their seats is to be used on the TfW tram fleet by the looks of things, the same design as on some Stadler FLIRTs in Germany.
I'm sure they're still going strong. The specification for seats British trains these days is so unique (ie uncomfortable) many seat manufacturers don't bother designing a seat specially for UK use.
Or you could take the more optimistic approach, and take into account that a tram train is being fitted with intercity seats with armrests and tables, rather than suggesting the Intercity fleet has tram seats - because it doesn’t. Trams don’t usually look like that.I believe one of their seats is to be used on the TfW tram fleet by the looks of things, the same design as on some Stadler FLIRTs in Germany.
View attachment 91666
EDIT: Seems it has been changed, and the trams will now use the Fainsa Sofia tat, the same seats as on the class 800...
Pictures in here: https://tfwrail.wales/metro/trains
You know things are bad when a literal tram has the same seats as your long-distance fleet lol.
EDIT: Seems it has been changed, and the trams will now use the Fainsa Sofia tat, the same seats as on the class 800...
Pictures in here: https://tfwrail.wales/metro/trains
You know things are bad when a literal tram has the same seats as your long-distance fleet lol.
My thoughts exactly, trams and commuter trains are all it's good (enough) for, but yet the same company supposedly wants to put it on long-distance routes of over six hours, where a significant amount will be doing well over half of that...Finally an appropriate use for the Sophia!
The company that ordered them didn't want the Sophias; they wanted the Fainsa Comrail (ironing board)* and that's what they ordered originally. The TfW board decided to pay extra to have Sophias instead.
Probably more a case of "how much many do we reasonably have?", again the routes many of these will be used on are subsidised... Although I would have liked them to be ordered about a 5-10 years ago so future electrification is not put of they are currently what the routes need, a cheap enough train which is good on emissions, good on acceleration and have low passenger boarding time.
