Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[TheGrandWazoo]

As @GusB has said, the use of "berry buses" has gone on for years. If anything, they have often yielded preservation projects.

As for the Maidstone farm, I think that they have a number of ex Stagecoach B10Ms. I guess that they're getting on for 25 years old and so they're getting replaced by some robust, well built and well maintained B7RLEs

 

[Blindtraveler]

Got a ride on an MCV earlier today finally, nice kit indeed. Hope we get more of these or similar

 

[scotrail158713]

Got a ride on an MCV earlier today finally, nice kit indeed. Hope we get more of these or similar

Annoyingly I’ve still not caught one yet although I’m off to the Fort later this week so I will hopefully catch one at some point then. They look nice enough, but I’m curious to see what they’re like for myself.

 

[Busbuddy]

Lothian Buses cancelled this service for commercial reasons, citing low projected use post COVID19. Not everyone in Linlithgow wants to walk from the East & West extremities to travel by Rail, nor do they want to spend over an hour siting on the First Bus #38. With many having access to cars, this leads to more car journeys as a result. I would ask supporters of the route to contact Lesley Macinnes, convener of Edinburgh Council's Transport & Environment Committee to request they intervene. Environmental policy is not dictated by short term commercial reasons & this decision flies in the face of the aims of the COP26 talks being held in Scotland in November.

 

[overthewater]

Just to point out some important facts:

A: The council has no control over what Lothian buses do, if they did someone would get into serious trouble with the law.
B: More importantly, Edinburgh City Council has no control outside Edinburgh, It would be up to West Lothian Council, who a very unlikely would pay for such a service. They wouldn't even help keep the old 631 going.
C: Can you prove that many of the car users are heading to Edinburgh City centre? Has a detailed study taken place like in the case of the L1 town service?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are there not local buses in Linlithgow that can be used to connect with the train?

 

[scosutsut]

Your 6 days late?

Not going to happen in a month of Sundays when two commercial alternatives exist, irrespective if you don't like them.

 

[DunsBus]

The X38 and the EX2 were struggling even before Covid, so cancelling them was the most logical (and sensible) thing to do.

Both of these services are dead. They won't be returning in any shape or form.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Even before Covid hit usage on the EX2 was very poor and it's future was in doubt. Lothian made huge losses in the 2019/20 financial year, so cuts to poor used services were inevitable.

As has been noted already the Linlithgow isn't in the Edinburgh City Council area, so a direct service to Linlithgow is nothing to do with them, it's West Lothian council you'd need to get in contact with. However with budgets for the 2021/22 financial year generally being cut i can say pretty confidently that the council will likely not even consider started such a service.

Supported services are intended to fill gaps where no other public transport alternatives are available, Scotrail already provide a regular and direct train service to Edinburgh, and the local buses within Linlithgow cover all the areas the EX2 did.

Are there not local buses in Linlithgow that can be used to connect with the train?

Indeed, within Linlithgow the route of the EX2 is already covered by other services that link to the train station.

 

[scotrail158713]

How many people regularly used it? It's unfortunate if you were one of the few who did, but whenever I saw the EX2 it was almost empty.

 

[Busbuddy]

Just to point out some important facts:

A: The council has no control over what Lothian buses do, if they did someone would get into serious trouble with the law.
B: More importantly, Edinburgh City Council has no control outside Edinburgh, It would be up to West Lothian Council, who a very unlikely would pay for such a service. They wouldn't even help keep the old 631 going.
C: Can you prove that many of the car users are heading to Edinburgh City centre? Has a detailed study taken place like in the case of the L1 town service?

Lothian Buses is the largest municipal bus company in the United Kingdom. the City of Edinburgh Council (through Transport for Edinburgh) owns 91%, Midlothian Council 5%, East Lothian Council 3% and West Lothian Council 1%. So saying Lothian Council has no control is misleading.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Lothian Buses is the largest municipal bus company in the United Kingdom. the City of Edinburgh Council (through Transport for Edinburgh) owns 91%, Midlothian Council 5%, East Lothian Council 3% and West Lothian Council 1%. So saying Lothian Council has no control is misleading.

Lothian Buses are not a municipal bus company in the true historical context but rather an "arms length" private company, they're run independently from the council, thus the council don't have control over where they operate, yes they can have influence, but ultimately the decision comes down to the management at Lothian not the council leaders.

 

[GusB]

Some posts have been moved from this thread as a separate thread is not warranted:

EX2 Linlithgow to Edinburgh

Lothian Buses cancelled this service for commercial reasons, citing low projected use post COVID19. Not everyone in Linlithgow wants to walk from the East & West extremities to travel by Rail, nor do they want to spend over an hour siting on the First Bus #38. With many having access to cars...

www.railforums.co.uk

I do so with some hesitation because the EX1/2 debate has been done to death already. I would politely suggest that the OP of the EX2 thread does a little bit of prior reading - please use the search facility and select "this thread" as the place to start your search.

As always, please be civil in your posts, even if you disagree with others' opinions.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Lothian Buses is the largest municipal bus company in the United Kingdom. the City of Edinburgh Council (through Transport for Edinburgh) owns 91%, Midlothian Council 5%, East Lothian Council 3% and West Lothian Council 1%. So saying Lothian Council has no control is misleading.

Not sure why you've highlighted 'Lothian' in the council's names? They're entirely separate councils and don't have any real control over the company?

 

[Auld reekie]

Does anyone know if the 45 will be returning to its normal service?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Does anyone know if the 45 will be returning to its normal service?

Most likely will once the timetables go back to Monday - Friday times

 

[Auld reekie]

Most likely will once the timetables go back to Monday - Friday times

Thanks.

 

[OmniCity999]

Lothian Buses is the largest municipal bus company in the United Kingdom. the City of Edinburgh Council (through Transport for Edinburgh) owns 91%, Midlothian Council 5%, East Lothian Council 3% and West Lothian Council 1%. So saying Lothian Council has no control is misleading.

Im by no ways an expert in councils, however this much is true. There is no such thing as "Lothian Council"...

Edinburgh Council
East Lothian Council
West Lothian Council
Midlothian Council

Are all entirely separate and are in no way connected, their all different authorities in different jurisdictions. Their separate councils, different budgets, different councillors and different aims.

(Similar to East Ayrshire Council, North Ayrshire Council and South Ayrshire Council)

That being said, Lothian Buses ownership is split between four authorities. This doesn't mean they have any say in what the company does, in anyway. Council owns the company, company operates the services, Council does Council things like not fixing roads.

By all means, they could request services etc but the company can say no. Its a commercial operation that just happens to be owned by the four councils.

An arms length company - pretty much a modern interpretation of municipal ownership.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Im by no ways an expert in councils, however this much is true. There is no such thing as "Lothian Council"...

Edinburgh Council
East Lothian Council
West Lothian Council
Midlothian Council

Are all entirely separate and are in no way connected, their all different authorities in different jurisdictions. Their separate councils, different budgets, different councillors and different aims.

(Similar to East Ayrshire Council, North Ayrshire Council and South Ayrshire Council)

That being said, Lothian Buses ownership is split between four authorities. This doesn't mean they have any say in what the company does, in anyway. Council owns the company, company operates the services, Council does Council things like not fixing roads.

By all means, they could request services etc but the company can say no. Its a commercial operation that just happens to be owned by the four councils.

An arms length company - pretty much a modern interpretation of municipal ownership.

Absolutely true as things stand at present.

However I think confusion arises because there was a Lothian Regional Council with some responsibility for subsidising unprofitable bus routes in the final decades of last century. At deregulation in the mid 1980s I believe this "Lothian Council" chose to keep hold of the bus company shares and have taken dividends when available.

 

[OmniCity999]

Absolutely true as things stand at present.

However I think confusion arises because there was a Lothian Regional Council with some responsibility for subsidising unprofitable bus routes in the final decades of last century. At deregulation in the mid 1980s I believe this "Lothian Council" chose to keep hold of the bus company shares and have taken dividends when available.

I believe thats how it happened, DunsBus knows the full ins and outs*. Soon after, the dividends were "properly" divided.

* i wont tag them as their probably fed up of me doing so now...

 

[DunsBus]

I believe thats how it happened, DunsBus knows the full ins and outs*. Soon after, the dividends were "properly" divided.

* i wont tag them as their probably fed up of me doing so now...

When Lothian Region Transport plc was formed in 1986 it was from what had previously been Lothian Region's public transport department. The shares in LRT plc were owned by the council, but it had no say in the company's day-to-day operation. The division of shares happened when Lothian Region was split up in 1996, based on the mileage operated in each of the successor Council areas at the time.
LRT was unique in being a municipal with plc status and I believe that this was to safeguard against any potential sell-off.

 

[CN04NRJ]

When Lothian Region Transport plc was formed in 1986 it was from what had previously been Lothian Region's public transport department. The shares in LRT plc were owned by the council, but it had no say in the company's day-to-day operation. The division of shares happened when Lothian Region was split up in 1996, based on the mileage operated in each of the successor Council areas at the time.
LRT was unique in being a municipal with plc status and I believe that this was to safeguard against any potential sell-off.

Soon to all change with the proposed merger with Edinburgh Trams?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they'll have to bypass the Transport Act 1985 to do this and thus have direct control over the new entity?

 

[takno]

Soon to all change with the proposed merger with Edinburgh Trams?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they'll have to bypass the Transport Act 1985 to do this and thus have direct control over the new entity?

Looks like part of the ongoing war the council transport department have with their own annoyingly-succesful independent company. I imagine their latest kill-it-with-consultants scheme will fail as usual because they're too incompetent to pull it off. The upshot if anything will be a successful arms-length company that owns and runs both the trams and buses

 

[DunsBus]

Looks like part of the ongoing war the council transport department have with their own annoyingly-succesful independent company. I imagine their latest kill-it-with-consultants scheme will fail as usual because they're too incompetent to pull it off. The upshot if anything will be a successful arms-length company that owns and runs both the trams and buses

If I'm correct, the company name was changed from Lothian Buses plc to Lothian Buses Ltd a few years back, when Transport for Edinburgh was created. It subsequently took over the 91% share which City of Edinburgh Council had in the company.

 

[eoff]

If I'm correct, the company name was changed from Lothian Buses plc to Lothian Buses Ltd a few years back, when Transport for Edinburgh was created. It subsequently took over the 91% share which City of Edinburgh Council had in the company.

Indeed, here are some relevant documents from Companies House.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC096849/filing-history/MzA5MTQxNTk1MGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC096849/filing-history/MzA5MTQxNTk1MmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

 

[Bus9120UK]

Someone who lives near ADL Falkrik has sent this image to me, the first one has now got it's registration plate - SJ21 MYG

 

[ScotRail158725]

Someone who lives near ADL Falkrik has sent this image to me, the first one has now got it's registration plate - SJ21 MYG
View attachment 94368

There was about 30 outside the ADL factory last night. SJ21 MYD, MYL, MYT all theres from what i could see. some have been registered for a few weeks now

 

[OmniCity999]

There was about 30 outside the ADL factory last night. SJ21 MYD, MYL, MYT all theres from what i could see. some have been registered for a few weeks now

some are already at Seafield.

 

[Ricky Kane]

Any news on 1076 & 181

 

[Blindtraveler]

Do we know which depots and roots are destined for these