What procedures are followed when a person is hit by a train?

[Lockwood]

I was on scene at a fatality years ago. From our side, it was a lot of waiting around for the go ahead from NR to leave the platform and BTP telling us we really were not needed. We weren't given much if a briefing beyond "these lines are turned off. Those ones are still live. Don't touch those ones.". It was amazing how many slip and trip hazards there were.

I learned a lot more visually about human anatomy that day than I did from any text book, and those images are ones that I am not sure I will ever completely unsee.

My understanding was that there was a further cleanup of "debris" at first light the next morning, and a further clear up a couple of days later after more bits were observed.

It is a shame that people feel that they have no other option than that, and feel so desperate that they will turn to such dramatic means. In this one, it sounded like there was no way the person could have survived as they had taken extremely deliberate action to end their own life.

There have been studies which show no correlation between discussions of suicidal ideation and suicide attempts - these conversations can help. The underfunding and overworking of NHS mental health staff is a separate problem that needs to be addressed, and the thresholds for access should be reevaluate to stop the thing of "not being sick enough" to gain access to services.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

There are dedicated teams in Network Rail to try and prevent suicide and these work closely with the TOC and local communities. Target areas include places of economic deprivation and known hotspots that acquire a macabre reputation. When a full service is running, a fatality in a strategic area at a busy time can cost millions and the impact ripples around the network.

Interestingly, there is work going on in NR to mitigate the risk when the Furlough Scheme ends due to the economic impact this will have and the resulting impact on mental health, families, debt, self worth etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

I was at Finsbury Park last summer and, as a creature of habit, I took up a position at the north end of the platform, mainly to have a look at the various web of points and crossings. Not long after, a young staff member sheepishly approached and very gently asked if I was alright, and if so, would I mind moving back towards the main part of the station as some drivers were worried by people stood at isolated ends of platforms.

I had no real reason to be there other than that I was an enthusiast, it was far from the madding crowd and I like my own company when travelling, so of course I complied, but I was rather touched by the treatment and contacted Great Northern to greatly encourage it. Such an approach might well give several people a chance to "think again".

I had a very similar experience also at Finsbury Park a couple of years ago. I was wasting a bit of time before heading into Kings Cross to catch my LNER home so had wandered to a quieter island platform (but still close to the middle of the platform) where there were no trains due to call for a while (but there were fast trains coming through) mostly to be out of the way and enjoy observing the comings and going of trains and people from a position of relative peace and quiet. Then a minute or two later a member of staff who popped out of one of the station buildings wandered over to say: "Hello, you alright?", to which I explained what I was up to and they just responded: "Oh you're an enthusiast? Well have a good one mate!" and wandered off again. It was only a bit later I realised that my behaviour had most likely triggered them to come over and make sure I was actually okay and not potentially suicidal rather than just being friendly whilst going about their other duties. As with yourself I very impressed at the caring approach and the attention being paid.

 

[Buffer_mutt]

I've had an incident on the end of a platform I was working as a dispatcher.

Because it happened at the end of the platform no one really saw it happen and the remains were well clear of the platform.

Radio the gate line staff to not let anyone else onto platform, inform the ticket office so they aren't selling tickets for trains that aren't moving now.
An announcement asking for passengers to vacate the platforms and make their way to the ticket hall, and a walk around to guide any stragglers off the platforms as well. (Inform them of the reason if they refuse to move)

Start to arrange alternative taxi travel to clear the passengers currently on station.

Prepare for a barrage of calls from controls asking if the above has already been done and asking if I'm alright to continue staffing the station.

It was just before Christmas and I remember feeling terrible afterwards for a few weeks with "if only I'd have seen them at the end of the platform, maybe I could have prevented it with a chat"

 

[Intermodal]

I had a very similar experience also at Finsbury Park a couple of years ago. I was wasting a bit of time before heading into Kings Cross to catch my LNER home so had wandered to a quieter island platform (but still close to the middle of the platform) where there were no trains due to call for a while (but there were fast trains coming through) mostly to be out of the way and enjoy observing the comings and going of trains and people from a position of relative peace and quiet. Then a minute or two later a member of staff who popped out of one of the station buildings wandered over to say: "Hello, you alright?", to which I explained what I was up to and they just responded: "Oh you're an enthusiast? Well have a good one mate!" and wandered off again. It was only a bit later I realised that my behaviour had most likely triggered them to come over and make sure I was actually okay and not potentially suicidal rather than just being friendly whilst going about their other duties. As with yourself I very impressed at the caring approach and the attention being paid.

I had a very similar experience when I was about 14. I was going to meet my friends and was alone at my local station, unstaffed apart from a booking office. As teenagers often do, I sat down on the floor, cross-legged near the edge of the platform (but not dangerously close).

The guy in the booking office saw me on the CCTV, closed his booking office and came down to check I was okay, which of course I was. I only realised when I was a bit older why he went to such effort to come and see me. Very compassionate.

 

[mpthomson]

Following the discussion about impulsive acts there's a fascinating film from 2006 called The Bridge, which is a documentary looking at suicides involving the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. One of the more poignant comments made by the director since, and one that I've heard from a few patients in the past who've jumped from height and survived (I'm a mental health professional) is that as soon as they jumped they realised that they didn't want to die.

 

[seagull]

The one I had started off badly when the train came to a stand right in a GSM-R dead zone, so that although I could hear the signalman he couldn't hear me. Had to dig out the mobile phone in a hurry.

In addition having dealt with the effects of a partner who very nearly ended her life through depression caused by a bereavement, it really hit hard. Strangely not straight away though. I was fine for a few days, apart from a couple of sleepless nights because of a constant heart thumping loudly and anxiety.

It was a little thing: met someone socially, as was trying to get out and about, got talking, the usual "oh, never met a train driver before", and then a question, asked in all innocence by him: "always thought it to be a good job, but have you ever had someone jump in front? Must be dreadful."
I just burst into tears instantly, felt such an idiot, but it was what I needed to start getting it out of my system. Counselling definitely helped too, as did getting back to work, though not an easy first day or two.
And now I am fine with talking about it to others.

 

[Intermodal]

It was a little thing: met someone socially, as was trying to get out and about, got talking, the usual "oh, never met a train driver before", and then a question, asked in all innocence by him: "always thought it to be a good job, but have you ever had someone jump in front? Must be dreadful."

I haven't even been driving that long, but I was surprised how common this question is. I've been asked it more times than I could count already. I would never dream of asking someone who is ex-military if they have ever killed someone or about traumatic things that they may or may not have seen.

 

[Highlandspring]

I believe the suicide rate in front of moving trains on Christmas day is quite low.

You jest but I once dealt with a fatality on Christmas day.

The noise that goes off in control rooms and signal boxes is similar to the Star Trek red alert klaxon.

It is the same sound effect. I've always wondered whether they have to pay an annual royalty or if it was just a one off fee to a sound effects library. The local leisure pool near me also uses it before the wave machine starts, which was a bit disconcerting the first time I heard it.

 

[LowLevel]

I haven't even been driving that long, but I was surprised how common this question is. I've been asked it more times than I could count already. I would never dream of asking someone who is ex-military if they have ever killed someone or about traumatic things that they may or may not have seen.

A couple of years ago a train I was travelling on as a normal passenger (I am a guard in my day job) hit and killed a person, it was an accident, not a suicide. I was travelling with a bunch of other traincrew on a day out and we offered any help needed to the guard but he was an old hand and had everything in hand so we settled down to wait for things to be sorted out.

I was waiting in a queue to use the bog (everyone wants to use the bog when the train isn't moving, I'm assuming out of boredom) and the driver came back to use the toilet. I asked how he was doing and he said he was OK, there were two of them up front, a DI and an already qualified man who had changed companies and they had looked after each other. I, naturally, offered him to jump the queue when the chap behind me, some sort of travelling sales rep started off with "ooh, you're the driver are you? How fast were you going when you hit him then? Must have been a hell of a bang".

It was all I could do not to swing for him. I don't know what planet some people are on. I can quite happily cope with some gallows humour after the event if it's instigated by the people involved but in the middle of sorting out the aftermath it seemed ridiculously insensitive.

 

[Dave W]

... the chap behind me, some sort of travelling sales rep started off with "ooh, you're the driver are you? How fast were you going when you hit him then? Must have been a hell of a bang".

Some people are really, really weird.

Like seagull, I too had a partner who came very close to ending her own life on more than one occasion. At the time I went into autopilot. Recovery position, call ambulance, sit in waiting room, call her family, keep a straight face. I went back to work the next day as she was in ICU because there was little else I *could* do. Then I sat back in a spare half hour and I was a wreck. It took a very long time to unpick but I'm now at a stage where I can involve myself in discussions like this. Lots of counselling helped.

This is pure backslapping so apologies for the sycophancy, but I am heartened by the open and positive nature of this thread. We've all got our foibles, I think.

 

[Puppetfinger]

I would just like to say thank you to everyone on this thread who has shared their personal experiences of this very difficult and awful subject.

It has taught me a few things, both from a railway operations and 'human beings' subject, thank you. That which you have taught me and made me realise might make all the difference to someone in the future now.

 

[Dieseldriver]

I haven't even been driving that long, but I was surprised how common this question is. I've been asked it more times than I could count already. I would never dream of asking someone who is ex-military if they have ever killed someone or about traumatic things that they may or may not have seen.

I find it utterly disgusting. I also find it disgusting how many people think it’s a laughing matter. Downright disrespectful to the Driver, the person who lost their life and their loved ones, other railway staff and emergency services.

 

[AntoniC]

I would just like to say thank you to everyone on this thread who has shared their personal experiences of this very difficult and awful subject.

It has taught me a few things, both from a railway operations and 'human beings' subject, thank you. That which you have taught me and made me realise might make all the difference to someone in the future now.

No problem at all,
I have no problem tellling people at my Mental Health episode because I feel that it should be talked about, but not in a preachy way and because I am not embarrased about it.
I will openly talk to people at work (and those who know me off the Forum) find it hard to believe that I changed from being an outgoing and extrovert person to someone who nearly gave up on life and *nearly* became an alcoholic to cope with it - luckily I have been teetotal for 9 1/2 years.

 

[IanXC]

As per my earlier post, Dignity has the contract with Network Rail and subcontracts the collection of the body to local funeral directors who are not allowed on the infrastructure. Dignity is called by the Network Rail National Operations Centre in Milton Keynes, who also liaise with the BTP Force Control Room to get the incident categorised as quickly as possible. As an aside I've always wondered why the railway is responsible for arranging removal of the body from their property whereas if someone hung themselves from a tree in your garden you wouldn't be expected to sort it yourself but it'd be dealt with entirely by the police/Coroner/Procurator Fiscal. Incidentally the railway uses the same process where a person dies on the infrastructure but not as a result of being hit by a train, e.g. where someone dies on board a train, jumps off a bridge or hangs themselves (both of which are surprisingly common).

The site is only a potential crime scene if the BTP categorisation based on the driver's initial account points that way. Categorisation usually takes place very quickly once the duty Inspector has reviewed the information from the fatality hotline and from evidence at the scene. It's a nightmare when it's categorised as unexplained or suspicious but thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

I've always assumed it was a matter of timing, the railway arranging it themselves being to expedite matters.

 

[furnessvale]

You jest but I once dealt with a fatality on Christmas day.

I was not really jesting. It is one of my stock answers to people demanding ultimate safety from our railway system.

It is also why I said "low" rather than non existent. Ballast trains are still moving and people still jump off viaducts etc, on what can be a very depressing day for some poor souls.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Some members may find this Twitter thread useful, it concerns the aftermath of the fatality at Winchester last night from the perception of a train stranded a couple of miles south of the incident.

https://twitter.com/RexKram55112378/status/1390395585195388932

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It is horrible having to deal with some of the aftermaths of "incidents" , having seen both major rail incidents and persons hit by trains , and there was a sort of badge of (misplaced) honour in BR days when the remit told to us trainees was to get there before the Police, remove the body and remains, (carefully marking the spot) and keep the trains moving. You would be allegedly judged by senior management on your performance.

I have seen some of these issues at close hand , and I am fortunate in that it never impacted personally afterwards , and not being a particularly religious person , always said a short silent prayer and did what was possible.

 

[sw1ller]

I was asked to inspect the line after a driver had heard a noise but seen nothing. Stopped next to the driver who explained where he thought it was exactly (as did the signaller but I wanted to make sure the driver was good too). Crept forward and about 15-20 car lengths behind the back of his train I could confirm he had indeed hit someone. Very obvious even from my cab (and even though I’m not a doctor) there was nothing I could do to help. As it was only a double track line and both lines were blocked by my train and the other train, I initiated an “urgent” call. I didn’t want to be the one to tell the other driver he had infact hit someone. (An emergency call would have sounded in his cab too and he’d have heard my conversation). Signallers were on high alert already anyway and emergency service were on scene within 2 minutes (already on scene but couldn’t find anything). After speaking with the signaller, I calmly asked the single passenger if they could move to the rear carriage which they did, I didn’t tell him why. Just didn’t want him to glimpse anything. We then informed our other 2 passengers and 5 members of staff from a different TOC (it was 11pm and they knew their train home was now gonna be very late) about what was going on. I was then checked by two lovely paramedics and two brilliant police officers to make sure I was ok. (Still had 90 minutes of driving to get back to my depot so I suppose they needed to make sure I was fit to drive, it was quite a shocking scene). After two hours we had a little outburst from one passenger who started to panic and cry but calmed her down as we were about to set off. I was then told to change ends 3 times as they kept changing their minds on which way I could go. Dropped the passengers off at the next station and then empty stock back to base, where I had to deal with 1 wrong routing, p-way taking possession of the line too early and having to give it back up to let me trough (15 mins delay) a track circuit failure and then a long wait at a red where my GSMR decided to fail. When it goes wrong it’s usually all at once for me.

 

[relay_man]

As a bit of a side note, I one dealt with a woman who wanted a taxi to a well know suicide spot from Heathrow airport. I took her to to the chapel and sat her down for 3/4 of an hour as she explained how she had considered a train but got too scared. I summoned the police by text message and requested a silent approach. If you want to be able in the UK to request the emergency services by text message, set it up by texting the word REGISTER to 999 and follow the prompts. Text sometimes even works when voice calls can't be made.

 

[CAF397]

Never hit a person, but I've been the train directly behind a fatality once. Followed the train all the way from the junction it joined at. Held at a red signal protecting the station it was calling at. After a few minutes, thought something was strange as usually it had moved away and the signal would clear. I 'SGd' the signaller on the GSMR, and got wait sent back. A few minutes later the signaller rang me to tell me the train had hit someone as they departed the station. No emergency call was made.

Also been the train in front 3 times - that's really unsetting knowing that the person would have been around at the time. You rack your brain trying to remember if you saw them, and if you did were they acting suspiciously, then you feel guilt to your colleague behind who hit them. But in all 3 cases I genuinely never saw anything amiss.

Had to pick the train involved in a fatality up twice too, and see the driver face to face. That's not a great thing to have to do.

 

[malc-c]

I've not read through all three pages, but it's nice to hear that so many of you who have been in that dark place have manged to come back form it and post on this topic. It's also pleasing to see the thread is still running and the admin have not removed it.

Personally, I've had depression for years... and on more than one occasion have found myself standing on a platform at 2am waiting for a train....how I got there I can't remember... but even though at the time I felt worthless and had no way out, and what point there was with continuing my existence, something stopped me stepping off that platform when the freight train came through... For some reason I thought of the impacted my action would have on the drivers life... why, when you are in that frame of mind that you are so focused on yourself and your own shortcomings you would think of another person I have no idea.....

There is of course the impact it can have on others who witness these things. My wife was at Stevenage a few months back when someone jumped in front of a train from the platform as it passed through. Thankfully she didn't see the resulting mess, but the sound of the impact still haunts her to this day.

To all those in the industry who have contributed to this thread, I thank you. It's been in interesting insight to what is really a common occurrence, and to the drivers who have detailed personal instances and experiences my thoughts are with you - regardless of how hard you are, there will be some impact on your life.

 

[adc82140]

I haven't even been driving that long, but I was surprised how common this question is. I've been asked it more times than I could count already. I would never dream of asking someone who is ex-military if they have ever killed someone or about traumatic things that they may or may not have seen.

This is interesting. I work in the health service, and did a fairly long stint in A&E. I was never asked if I saw people die (I did, lots of times. Many at the end of their natural lives, but a fair few that still play on my mind years later). So why would people think it's OK to ask a train driver this?

 

[Lockwood]

I was never asked if I saw people die (I did, lots of times. Many at the end of their natural lives, but a fair few that still play on my mind years later).

My dad asked me if I've seen many dead people. So, I started to list them (in abstract and unidentifiable). He then asked me to stop part way through.

Something I used to get, but don't now is "what was the worst thing you've seen?". Sometimes that questions comes from people as genuine curiosity about that side of life, others it is just morbid pleasure. I would say that the incident in my earlier post is by far the most gruesome I've seen, and with any luck the most gruesome I will ever see.

 

[adc82140]

My dad asked me if I've seen many dead people. So, I started to list them (in abstract and unidentifiable). He then asked me to stop part way through.

Something I used to get, but don't now is "what was the worst thing you've seen?". Sometimes that questions comes from people as genuine curiosity about that side of life, others it is just morbid pleasure. I would say that the incident in my earlier post is by far the most gruesome I've seen, and with any luck the most gruesome I will ever see.

For the "worst thing you've seen" I tend to steer the conversation towards the funniest or oddest thing I've seen. Better for all parties I think. A description of things inserted in various places usually does the trick, and satisfies curiosity.

There are some things I've seen on shift that have never been discussed beyond telling my wife, including my involvement with the aftermath of a high profile child neglect case.

To bring this back on topic, I guess some drivers would want to talk it out, others would prefer not to.

 

[O L Leigh]

This is interesting. I work in the health service, and did a fairly long stint in A&E. I was never asked if I saw people die (I did, lots of times. Many at the end of their natural lives, but a fair few that still play on my mind years later). So why would people think it's OK to ask a train driver this?

I think it's the only thing they can think to ask about the job other than "how do you steer?". I dislike this question too and find that the perceptions of the travelling public, together with their reactions, can be quite baffling to me.

I had a fatality at a station very early in my career which was a clear-cut suicide. There was something weird about seeing it all through a little square window that I found somehow distanced myself from the reality of the situation. I had stopped and made the emergency call (which was, for the record, a shambles) and then, once I'd nothing much more to do except sit tight and wait for the cavalry, my brain immediately started questioning whether or not I had just imagined the whole thing. Then I remembered that there were people waiting for a following train who must have witnessed it, so I looked back along the platform and they were all still standing there totally impassive as though nothing untoward had happened. It was only when the police arrived (civils first, BTP later) that I had any independent verification. Looking back at the incident I think that the feeling of distance probably helped my recovery in that I didn't really feel as though I was in any way connected to it.

A while later I was caught up in a colleague's fatality where I was held for an extended period of time. Having experienced the procedures for myself I told the passengers what had happened and that we'd be in for a wait of at least an hour, probably longer. Of course, it wasn't long before someone was pounding on my door demanding that the train be moved because he was going to be late for a meeting. I explained again what had happened, to which he replied "Well he's f***ing dead, isn't he? So what's the problem?". So I punched him very hard square in the middle of the face and told him to show some f***ing respect.*

* May not be true.

 

[adc82140]

You say your emergency call was a shambles. But in that situation would it be any other way for anyone?

When I did my undergraduate training, one of the first things thrown at us was roleplay using professional actors playing the part of patients. Mine was briefed to be a newly diagnosed cancer patient who broke down in front of me. It was rather realistic.

Are signallers given this sort of training to help them in this situation?

 

[Highlandspring]

Are signallers given this sort of training to help them in this situation?

No they’re not, it’s just left to their personal empathy and human nature. Some are better at dealing with this sort of thing than others. They tend to be a bit forgotten about in disucssion of these incidents but it can be quite traumatic for a signaller to deal with a fatality even when they haven’t witnessed it (although I’ve known signallers who have witnessed a fatality from the box) and speaking with the driver who has just hit someone and trying to reassure them can often be the hardest bit. What do you say to someone who has just struck a child on a level crossing at 100mph?

Network Rail does have a procedure for managing staff who’ve been involved in traumatic incidents but it‘s a bit perfunctory; more or less just ask them if they feel ok and if they say no send them home with the phone number for the OH counselling service.

 

[Dieseldriver]

You say your emergency call was a shambles. But in that situation would it be any other way for anyone?

When I did my undergraduate training, one of the first things thrown at us was roleplay using professional actors playing the part of patients. Mine was briefed to be a newly diagnosed cancer patient who broke down in front of me. It was rather realistic.

Are signallers given this sort of training to help them in this situation?

It’s something I’ve always considered to be lacking in the training of operational staff on the railway. I have always thought we should receive some kind of ‘crisis’ training in how to manage serious incidents (derailment, collision, fire on train, fatalities etc).
As it stands the focus tends to purely focus on the rule book instructions and communication relevant to an incident and doesn’t really go into the psychological side of how you may react and methods of controlling yourself.
One thing I think is important to focus on when communicating in an emergency is speaking deliberately slowly and as calmly as possible.
Another tip I have is to imagine scenarios in your head and think about ‘what would I do if’.... Another good thing about this is it can help you keep your route knowledge fresh (what’s the name of the crossing I’ve just hit the imaginary car on? What line am I on? Which two identifiable landmarks am I between? Who’s the controlling Signaller?)

 

[O L Leigh]

It’s something I’ve always considered to be lacking in the training of operational staff on the railway. I have always thought we should receive some kind of ‘crisis’ training in how to manage serious incidents (derailment, collision, fire on train, fatalities etc).
As it stands the focus tends to purely focus on the rule book instructions and communication relevant to an incident and doesn’t really go into the psychological side of how you may react and methods of controlling yourself.
One thing I think is important to focus on when communicating in an emergency is speaking deliberately slowly and as calmly as possible.
Another tip I have is to imagine scenarios in your head and think about ‘what would I do if’.... Another good thing about this is it can help you keep your route knowledge fresh (what’s the name of the crossing I’ve just hit the imaginary car on? What line am I on? Which two identifiable landmarks am I between? Who’s the controlling Signaller?)

I consider myself very lucky to have had a very good instructor driver and we talked through a lot of "what if?" scenarios while I was doing my hours, including train fire and fatality. This meant that I'd already formulated a number of plans in my own mind about what I would/wouldn't do in certain situations, including not getting out to the cab to go back and look if I ever ran someone over. I don't know if this was something he was told he should do or whether it was something he just did off his own initiative, but I'm very grateful to him for this.

I'm not so sure about the calm and measured approach to communication, though. Clearly I do agree that you have to make sure that you give the correct information in a clear manner in order that the cavalry can be dispatched, but you're likely to be in shock and therefore I see no harm in being a bit shambolic. Let me explain.

I had a near miss at a crossing with a berk with earphones on his head. Only by ducking back through the gate at the last instant did he manage to save his own life, because I was not going to be able to stop and no amount of blasting the horn was going to get past whatever sh*te he was blaring into his skull. Mindful of how bad my previous emergency call had been I made sure to take a deep breath and do this one right, and so I calmly and clearly called it in. I can only assume that doing this had given the impression to the signaller that I was OK because it never got passed on to the TOC control because I never got a welfare check. In fact, when I did see a manager on a platform about an hour or so later who asked how I was, when I told him about the near miss it was clear from his face that he hadn't got a clue what I was talking about.