Extensive TfW cancellations on Valley Lines - Sun 30/5

[father_jack]

I've noticed that as people go further into their service they often don't need to work the rounds of the clock any more, mortgage cut down, sprogs cleared off etc.

I had my 2021 P60 only on Friday last- compared to 2018 the 2021 overall basic is 20% less !!! And that extra pay was either flat rate rest day work or 120% Sunday work. With sometimes no rest day at all in the week, let alone the two days that I take now. I've not done a Sunday for nearly 2 years, at this stage if they tried to bring it the week in it would be a terrible upheaval. And I'm sure like I said at the start there are quite a few like me.

 

[Monty]

Like everybody in any line of work, nobody is obliged to work extra hours outside their contract if they don't want to. You can hardly blame drivers for exercising this right. It's no more "feeling like a day off" than me not turning up to my 9-5 job at the office on a Saturday.

This ultimately needs solving by bringing Sundays and Bank Holidays into the normal working week.

This 100%, I spend enough time at work as it is Covid or not it's still often in excess of 50 hours a week when you factor in enforced overtime, I'm not going to come in if I'm not obligated to. You don't like that take it up with the TOCs rather the constantly bitching about the staff who are merely working to their contracts. As others have said the unions are broadly in favour of bringing Sunday into the working week, usually means more jobs (so more potential members).

 

[Ianno87]

This 100%, I spend enough time at work as it is Covid or not it's still often in excess of 50 hours a week when you factor in enforced overtime, I'm not going to come in if I'm not obligated to. You don't like that take it up with the TOCs rather the constantly bitching about the staff who are merely working to their contracts. As others have said the unions are broadly in favour of bringing Sunday into the working week, usually means more jobs (so more potential members).

The "problem" this will give the TOCs (and thus DfT) is increasing the cost base of the staff. Presumably covering stuff on overtime works out cheaper than having a larger headcount so as not to rely on overtime.

 

[jamesst]

It’s not the big bad unions, it’s the big bad management. You’re just trotting out the same nonsense we’ve heard before which is just the flip side of what you’re railing against.

Er I actually wasn't railing against anything, my union wants Sundays in the working week at my toc whereas management don't. There literally is no flip side!

Cut the childish rolling eyes and dont be so dismissive of other peoples posts . You might even enjoy life more...

 

[Dai Corner]

Of course, in Wales the railway operations are nationalised and the Government is run by Labour which is the political arm of the trade union movement. 'Big bad Management' and 'big bad Unions' are one and the same.

 

[jamesst]

Of course, in Wales the railway operations are nationalised and the Government is run by Labour which is the political arm of the trade union movement. 'Big bad Management' and 'big bad Unions' are one and the same.

In all fairness the management and unions often have a lot more in common than people on this forum realise.

 

[PHILIPE]

1430 Manchester to Milford will be started at Crewe and no longer call at Manchester Stockport and Wilmslow. Sounds like the Crewe end to me.

One lone example in comparison with numerous ones elsewhere

 

[Dai Corner]

In all fairness the management and unions often have a lot more in common than people on this forum realise.

I don't work in the railway industry but understand the unions are consulted/ involved in management decisions to a greater extent than in many others. Everyone wants to run a safe, reliable and punctual railway in return for a fair wage or return on their investment.

 

[jamesst]

I don't work in the railway industry but understand the unions are consulted/ involved in management decisions to a greater extent than in many others. Everyone wants to run a safe, reliable and punctual railway in return for a fair wage or return on their investment.

Spot on!

 

[Bertie the bus]

A lot of people have been saying for weeks they just want things to get back to normal and there is no better indication of a return to normality than this sort of nonsense on the railway. Rejoice!

 

[jamesst]

A lot of people have been saying for weeks they just want things to get back to normal and there is no better indication of a return to normality than this sort of nonsense on the railway. Rejoice!

Soon be Christmas!!

 

[sw1ller]

I’m currently enjoying my booked long weekend.

I’ve hammered the overtime this and last year and helped out relentlessly by switching jobs last minute, staying on after my day to help with shunting and even helped get 3 drivers back to work.

Now I’m not allowed out my house because someone else has to work to make my day good. I was almost speechless....

 

[Snow1964]

Like everybody in any line of work, nobody is obliged to work extra hours outside their contract if they don't want to. You can hardly blame drivers for exercising this right. It's no more "feeling like a day off" than me not turning up to my 9-5 job at the office on a Saturday.

This ultimately needs solving by bringing Sundays and Bank Holidays into the normal working week.

I don’t really see how a company and its Directors can sign a contract (or franchise) with the Government to operate trains 363 days a year, then only employ staff for about 311 days a year, and hope the remaining days can be worked by volunteers

Maybe someone can reconcile this for me, as I can’t figure the logic of how this sort of contract is allowed to be signed.

 

[duncanp]

This ultimately needs solving by bringing Sundays and Bank Holidays into the normal working week.

I agree, and perhaps this might happen with the advent of Great British Railways.

Any staff who are recruited after a given date should be obliged to work on whatever day they are rostered. Sundays and Bank Holidays should be treated like any other day for the purposes of sick pay, pension contributions, annual leave entitelement, rest days.. etc

Existing staff should not have their contracts changed, so they should have no cause for complaint, although they could be given the option of changing to the new contracts voluntarily.

 

[colchesterken]

Could it be all about money?. Before I retired from working in the call centre, they had to allocate working Sundays, we were well paid overtime and were always oversubscribed

 

[LowLevel]

I agree, and perhaps this might happen with the advent of Great British Railways.

Any staff who are recruited after a given date should be obliged to work on whatever day they are rostered. Sundays and Bank Holidays should be treated like any other day for the purposes of sick pay, pension contributions, annual leave entitelement, rest days.. etc

Existing staff should not have their contracts changed, so they should have no cause for complaint, although they could be given the option of changing to the new contracts voluntarily.

The problem tends to be the additional remuneration which is of course as you say pensionable etc. I don't want to lose out on money so for my newly booked Sundays I would expect my annual salary to increase to the same level (if not more for the inconvenience of losing a guaranteed weekly day off) that it is taking into account additional Sunday working. That means a several thousand pounds per annum pay increase per worker - whereas at the moment the company pays out say £150 per shift to whoever happens to work it. They also have to cover annual leave on Sundays which becomes paid.

I'd sell my Sundays for £3,000 per year. Other people who for example want to play cricket every week might want double that.

 

[Robertj21a]

There's never going to be a solution to this. The Unions will demand silly money to work Sundays and won't agree to new starters being on contracts different to existing staff.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I can't blame a driver wanting a day off once in a while, that's fair. The TOC should bring the day into the working week and then they wouldn't have to pay overtime rates and/or regularly beg people to come in, although they'd have to take on a small additional sick pay/pension costs.

 

[Ianno87]

I don’t really see how a company and its Directors can sign a contract (or franchise) with the Government to operate trains 363 days a year, then only employ staff for about 311 days a year, and hope the remaining days can be worked by volunteers

Maybe someone can reconcile this for me, as I can’t figure the logic of how this sort of contract is allowed to be signed.

It's effectively a risk-based approach. You save some money in staff costs, but a risk once in a while that you can't cover the timetable and pay a one-off penalty. Effectively the "price" paid for days like today is a performance penalty offset against the ongoing saving in staff cost. A TOC is, after all, a business (at least in pre-Covid land they were)

Same practice in retail - supermarkets rely alot on overtime too for flexibility, covering leave etc and keeping the level of "fixed" staffing cost down.

 

[Dai Corner]

It's effectively a risk-based approach. You save some money in staff costs, but a risk once in a while that you can't cover the timetable and pay a one-off penalty. Effectively the "price" paid for days like today is a performance penalty offset against the ongoing saving in staff cost. A TOC is, after all, a business (at least in pre-Covid land they were)

Same practice in retail - supermarkets rely alot on overtime too for flexibility, covering leave etc and keeping the level of "fixed" staffing cost down.

The TOC in this case isn't really a business though; it's more like a Government Department. Any penalty payment would effectively be from one part of the Welsh Government to a slightly different part.

 

[Envoy]

I think they are doing planned engineering work over this holiday weekend. Buses replace trains between Radyr & Pontypridd.

 

[Jez]

One lone example in comparison with numerous ones elsewhere

Does it really matter? The point is there are numerous cancellations across the TFW network today which should not be allowed to happen if they want to run a reliable service people can depend on. Its a very poor service and will lead to lots of complaints both on twitter and the complaints team.

 

[nanstallon]

Well, I shall not be selling my car, then!

 

[PHILIPE]

Does it really matter? The point is there are numerous cancellations across the TFW network today which should not be allowed to happen if they want to run a reliable service people can depend on. Its a very poor service and will lead to lots of complaints both on twitter and the complaints team.

How can you stop it happening ? Sundays are voluntary and if a driver decides he doesn't want to work then that's it.

 

[Robertj21a]

How can you stop it happening ? Sundays are voluntary and if a driver decides he doesn't want to work then that's it.

But not a very positive approach to encouraging train use?
As others have said, I'll stick to the car!

 

[Jez]

How can you stop it happening ? Sundays are voluntary and if a driver decides he doesn't want to work then tat's it.

Im aware Sundays are voluntary but a passenger wont care about that! They will only see a cancelled train and the inconvenience to them not being able to get from A to B without delays/problems, some many not be able to travel at all as it will disrupt plans too much. We are being told we are now allowed to travel for leisure so there should be an acceptable level of service.

Ive just had a look at twitter and as I predicted lots of complaints about todays shambles.

 

[dk1]

I'll stick to the car!

You’ve never mentioned that before

 

[Cardiff123]

How can you stop it happening ? Sundays are voluntary and if a driver decides he doesn't want to work then that's it.

Im aware Sundays are voluntary but a passenger wont care about that! They will only see a cancelled train and the inconvenience to them not being able to get from A to B without delays/problems, some many not be able to travel at all as it will disrupt plans too much. We are being told we are now allowed to travel for leisure so there should be an acceptable level of service.

Ive just had a look at twitter and as I predicted lots of complaints about todays shambles.

As has been said, Sundays need to be brought into the working week, along with sick pay, annual leave, made pensionable etc.
TfW made a big fanfair when they took over from ATW that within 4/5 years of them taking over, they'd be offering "a true 7 day service". Obviously you cannot guarantee that if you're relying on volunteers to run the service on Sundays. It's not 1981 or 1991, when nothing was open on Sundays, and there was just a skeleton service running that BR only needed some volunteers to run. It's obvious TfW are going to need to bring Sundays into the working week sooner rather than later, especially if we're to believe the predictions that people will be travelling by train possibly more for leisure purposes in future than for work/commuting.

Thing is, over the past 16 months we've had this thing called Covid, the original operator of the W&B franchise walked away, passenger numbers and revenue collapsed, training of new recruits had to be suspended, staff have been shielding/self isolating due to Covid etc. TfW have only been running the service directly themselves for under 4 months. I can't imagine sorting out Sunday working has been top of their agenda.

 

[craigybagel]

Im aware Sundays are voluntary but a passenger wont care about that! They will only see a cancelled train and the inconvenience to them not being able to get from A to B without delays/problems, some many not be able to travel at all as it will disrupt plans too much. We are being told we are now allowed to travel for leisure so there should be an acceptable level of service.

Ive just had a look at twitter and as I predicted lots of complaints about todays shambles.

So do prey tell what your solution is?

Negotiations are taking place to bring Sundays inside, but this takes time. TfW have also been undergoing a large recruitment campaign over the last few years, which will make Sundays in the week possible (and also provide a bigger pool of willing volunteers in the meantime), but Covid has delayed that training.

To return to topic: IIRC TfW have Sundays as the above, compelled but not in the working week: so it's not possible to just refuse to do the turn, it must be covered by someone else for the day to be given off. However they do (or did) operate a one-time per year "golden ticket" whereby a member of staff could guarantee that Sunday off - and it may be that several of those are being redeemed at once.

This is correct. So there are plenty of traincrew working today who are contractually obligated to do so. The golden ticket doesn't make too much difference as it is treated in the same way as annual leave is on other days, in that only a certain amount can take it at a time. My own depot only permits 1 driver per Sunday, for example.

However, drivers on their annual leave block weeks either side of a rostered Sunday don't have to work it, plus many depots are short staffed owing to Covid delays. Normally three spaces this leaves would be filled with volunteers working overtime, but given the circumstances not many want to work today - and how many of the people complaining here would be happy to be forced in breach of their contract to come into work on a day like today?

 

[RHolmes]

But not a very positive approach to encouraging train use?

It’s not meant to be.

Traincrew and other railway staff cannot just give up their lives to work 24/7 for the benefit of others, they’re people too remember!