Flexible Rail Season Tickets - 2/3 days per week to be introduced by June 2021

[Watershed]

Apologies if this question has been answered up-thread, but I didn't see it and the FAQ on Nation Rail Enquiries does not address it either.

Is the 28-day period set in stone? i.e. I plan to use my ticket 2 days a week, but stuff happens at work resulting in the 8 days being burned up in, say, 3 weeks. Can I purchase another Flexi straightaway even though the 28 day period of the previous ticket has yet to expire?

Yes, you aren't limited to getting one per 28 days.

Conversely, if you end up not using your 8 tickets within the 28 days (or indeed even before the 28 days are up) you can get a refund. You'll be refunded the difference between the cost of the "Flexi Season" and the relevant number of Anytime (Day) Returns, less a £10 admin fee.

 

[FenMan]

Yes, you aren't limited to getting one per 28 days.

Conversely, if you end up not using your 8 tickets within the 28 days (or indeed even before the 28 days are up) you can get a refund. You'll be refunded the difference between the cost of the "Flexi Season" and the relevant number of Anytime (Day) Returns, less a £10 admin fee.

Thank you for the very quick reply. Good.

 

[janb]

For Bootle to Manchester, it's £144.20 (£18.02 per day) against £20.60 for an anytime day return. So around 11.7% off from Bootle. A rather smaller reduction for a different fare which is also valid.

If I know that I will be going in to the office two days a week for the next four weeks it will be worth it. But if I have leave booked it won't. So it's not total simplicity (my Flexi expires: I buy a new one). And if Merseyrail turn out not to be keen on smart cards (I don't know that they're not, but they can be idiosyncratic over all-railway products: one for another thread I think) then that may be the decider to stay with day tickets.

According to Northern, Flexi Season tickets | Eight Flexible All-Day Tickets - Northern (northernrailway.co.uk)

Can I use Flexi Seasons on Merseyrail services?

Flexi Season tickets are not valid for travel on Merseyrail services. Tickets to Liverpool stations, will be available for sale, but will not be allowed for onward travel on Merseyrail services.

So TPE responsible for Bootle to Manchester flow presumably shouldn't have created that fare.

 

[XAM2175]

You'd almost want the Flexi season price to be a "base" price, and then subsequent journeys in the month to be charged per day above this at a diminishing rate, capping at the cost of the monthly ticket.

*That* would be "flexible".

Thumbs up to this. Capping is both a convenience and a reassurance for the passenger - but I'm not holding my breath to see it on a large scale since it would take an even bigger chunk out of the money-up-front pool the railway have come to rely on.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

According to Northern, Flexi Season tickets | Eight Flexible All-Day Tickets - Northern (northernrailway.co.uk)

Can I use Flexi Seasons on Merseyrail services?

Flexi Season tickets are not valid for travel on Merseyrail services. Tickets to Liverpool stations, will be available for sale, but will not be allowed for onward travel on Merseyrail services.

So TPE responsible for Bootle to Manchester flow presumably shouldn't have created that fare.

And presumably Northern, who are responsible for the Freshfield to Manchester flow, shouldn't have created the Freshfield (via Wigan) fare. Or at the very least, one part of Northern should have talked to another part.

 

[Watershed]

According to Northern, Flexi Season tickets | Eight Flexible All-Day Tickets - Northern (northernrailway.co.uk)



So TPE responsible for Bootle to Manchester flow presumably shouldn't have created that fare.

Even a flexi season issued to Liverpool Stations would be valid on Miseryrail, between any of the 4 relevant stations on the Loop/Link. It would be alarming if they decided to engage in an aggressive commercial practice by claiming such ticket holders need to pay again.

 

[infobleep]

The season ticket calculator is confusing.
Take Guildford to Portsmouth & Southsea or Harbour.

It tells you the cost per day if you only travel on the number of days selected.

I would like to see a comparison of the products regardless of the number of days I travel. So day return costs z, 8 in 28 costs x, weekly costs y, monthly costs v and annual costs u.

I selected 5± days for 1 month.
Tickets: Monthly Season
Cost per day: £22.03
Total period cost: £477.00
Monthly Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £22.03. Total period cost is £477.00
£477.00 per month
Anytime Day Return
Cost per day: £23.10
Anytime Day Return ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £23.10.
£23.10 per day
Minimise ticket options
Weekly Season
Cost per day: £24.84
Total period cost: £537.79
Weekly Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £24.84. Total period cost is £537.79
£124.20 per week
Annual Season
Cost per day: £229.47
Annual Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £229.47.
£4968.00 total

Maybe I just need to get my head around the new way of calculating.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Just ran a quick check based on 3 day a week travel between Rowley Regis and Worcester:


Annual Season
Cost per day: £9.11
Annual Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £9.11.

£1420.00 total


Flexi Season
Cost per day: £10.32
Total period cost: £1486.80
Flexi Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £10.32.

Total period cost is £1486.80

£82.60 per Flexi Season

So if i am reading that correctly - the so called money saving Flexi ticket is actually more expensive than a standard season ticket for less days traveled?

 

[Haywain]

So if i am reading that correctly - the so called money saving Flexi ticket is actually more expensive than a standard season ticket?

You are reading it correctly. Perhaps this will start to get people realising just how cheap an annual season ticket is.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Well, that's predictably dire.

Charlbury–Paddington:

"Flexible Season" £509.60 = £63.70 per day
Monthly season £698.90 = £36.80 per day (assuming 19 working days)
SOR £72.80
SOS outbound £36.40 + SOS with Network Card for return journey £24 = £60.40

So there's no circumstances in which a Flexible Season saves you money. You might as well just travel on singles using a Network Card for the return journey -and that's without considering Advances.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Even a flexi season issued to Liverpool Stations would be valid on Miseryrail, between any of the 4 relevant stations on the Loop/Link. It would be alarming if they decided to engage in an aggressive commercial practice by claiming such ticket holders need to pay again.

Merseyrail have introduced their own flexi ticket, for use on Merseyrail only.
You can buy 3 journeys for travel over 7 days, at zero discount from the daily ticket.
The "benefit" is to reduce queuing time at ticket offices!
Flexi Ticket (merseyrail.org)

With just one visit to the ticket office you can buy 3 return journeys valid for travel over 7 days with a Merseyrail Flexi-Ticket and benefit from the following:​

• Greater ability to socially distance by queueing once to buy three return journeys
• A new ticket designed for those who are making a few journeys per week

 

[Wolfie]

Reading to London £351.20 = £43.90 per day, a 12.5% discount on the SDR £50.20.
Anyone making three peak journeys per week will save money with a season, 7DS £121.60.
With a Network Railcard a slightly cheaper option than the Flexi Season is PAYG peak single out plus SDS back with Network Railcard £25.10 + £17.55 = £42.65.
Anyone able to travel offpeak in one direction will save money using PAYG, PAC £25.10 + POC £10.90 = £36.00

Cue STs are underpriced and attempts at bloody big rises for them?

Merseyrail have introduced their own flexi ticket, for use on Merseyrail only.
You can buy 3 journeys for travel over 7 days, at zero discount from the daily ticket.
The "benefit" is to reduce queuing time at ticket offices!
Flexi Ticket (merseyrail.org)

They can stick it that where the sun doesn't shine. Effectively making them an interest free loan for no benefit to you.

You are reading it correctly. Perhaps this will start to get people realising just how cheap an annual season ticket is.

.. and HMT seeking to change that?

 

[35B]

Just ran a quick check based on 3 day a week travel between Rowley Regis and Worcester:


Annual Season
Cost per day: £9.11
Annual Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £9.11.

£1420.00 total


Flexi Season
Cost per day: £10.32
Total period cost: £1486.80
Flexi Season ticket, The cost per day for this ticket is £10.32.

Total period cost is £1486.80

£82.60 per Flexi Season

So if i am reading that correctly - the so called money saving Flexi ticket is actually more expensive than a standard season ticket for less days traveled?

I checked my journey using the default values, and that bottom line comparison relies on you entering the right number of days per week travel. So, for a monthly Grantham - London Terminals (£920.10), it tells me on the default search of 3 days/week that the price per day is £70.83 on a season costing £920.10/month, or £122.66 on a flexi-season, where my cost of travel for a month would be £1472 on a flexi season.

On this route (and ignoring the infuriating hassle over through fares into Z1 on many tickets), that gives me quite an interesting choice between 3 options:
1. Buy a "traditional" season;
2. Buy a flexi-season; and
3. Try to buy AP tickets and keep my fares down.

For context, planned in advance and on a day when I'm willing to fix my journeys precisely, I've got AP tickets for Wednesday at a mere £29 return...

 

[Wolfie]

I checked my journey using the default values, and that bottom line comparison relies on you entering the right number of days per week travel. So, for a monthly Grantham - London Terminals (£920.10), it tells me on the default search of 3 days/week that the price per day is £70.83 on a season costing £920.10/month, or £122.66 on a flexi-season, where my cost of travel for a month would be £1472 on a flexi season.

On this route (and ignoring the infuriating hassle over through fares into Z1 on many tickets), that gives me quite an interesting choice between 3 options:
1. Buy a "traditional" season;
2. Buy a flexi-season; and
3. Try to buy AP tickets and keep my fares down.

For context, planned in advance and on a day when I'm willing to fix my journeys precisely, I've got AP tickets for Wednesday at a mere £29 return...

Re your last para, that may of course get harder if demand ramps back up.

 

[Watershed]

Merseyrail have introduced their own flexi ticket, for use on Merseyrail only.
You can buy 3 journeys for travel over 7 days, at zero discount from the daily ticket.
The "benefit" is to reduce queuing time at ticket offices!
Flexi Ticket (merseyrail.org)

Which would be entirely unnecessary if they moved into the 21st Century and started selling e-tickets for their flows. As is now possible with virtually all operators, you can then simply buy your ticket on your phone whilst walking to the platform.

 

[35B]

Re your last para, that may of course get harder if demand ramps back up.

Indeed, but friends have made relying on AP tickets work for 2-3 day/week commuting.

The point is both the general caveat emptor that applies to these tickets, and that on some flows, sensible use of point to point tickets can provide better value than season tickets.

 

[benk1342]

As I dreaded, this represents an 18.5% price increase for two- or three-day-a-week commuters vs the existing carnet product from Welwyn Garden City to London Terminals.

1x Peak Carnet @ £8.60 + 1x Off-Peak Carnet @ 6.20 = £14.80 per day
Flexi Season = £17.55 per day

With no evening-peak restrictions to WGC, this Peak/Off-Peak carnet combo was a very popular choice for many people - it was even better value than an annual season for four-day commuters.

And this is in the Transport Secretary's home constituency! If the carnet is withdrawn, I expect his office will be receiving some irate calls and emails when people realise.

 

[dk1]

It's the staff manning the TOC Twitter desks this morning I feel sorry for

 

[ess]

Are there any examples of child fare flexible seasons available?

 

[Watershed]

Are there any examples of child fare flexible seasons available?

There might have been some before, but the Flexi Season is not available with a child discount. It is, however, available with a 16-17 Saver discount!

 

[JamesT]

Are there any examples of child fare flexible seasons available?

From https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/flexi-season.aspx

Season Tickets are available in First Class and Child options, while Flexi Season ticket comes in Standard class only as it is aimed at commuters travelling during peak-times, Monday to Friday, 2-3 days a week.

 

[Haywain]

HMT seeking to change that?

HMT?

Are there any examples of child fare flexible seasons available?

Flexi seasons are specifically NOT available for child fares.

 

[717001]

As I dreaded, this represents an 18.5% price increase for two- or three-day-a-week commuters vs the existing carnet product from Welwyn Garden City to London Terminals.

1x Peak Carnet @ £8.60 + 1x Off-Peak Carnet @ 6.20 = £14.80 per day
Flexi Season = £17.55 per day

With no evening-peak restrictions to WGC, this Peak/Off-Peak carnet combo was a very popular choice for many people - it was even better value than an annual season for four-day commuters.

And this is in the Transport Secretary's home constituency! If the carnet is withdrawn, I expect his office will be receiving some irate calls and emails when people realise.

Peak Great Northern / Thameslink carnets aren't showing as available for 28/6 on their websites.

Have you looked at TfL Contactless Single am / Off-Peak Carnet pm?

There might have been some before, but the Flexi Season is not available with a child discount. It is, however, available with a 16-17 Saver discount!

Believe rationale is that younger school pupils will normally need to attend M-F, but older school / college students may not.

 

[benk1342]

Peak Great Northern / Thameslink carnets aren't showing as available for 28/6 on their websites.

Have you looked at TfL Contactless Single am / Off-Peak Carnet pm?

Ah good spot - if they only withdraw the Peak Carnet, but leave the Off-Peak in place, then that may be an acceptable bodge.

 

[35B]

HMT?

HM Treasury

 

[island]

Even a flexi season issued to Liverpool Stations would be valid on Miseryrail

no it won’t, because the seller has specifically said it won’t Be

between any of the 4 relevant stations on the Loop/Link. It would be alarming if they decided to engage in an aggressive commercial practice by claiming such ticket holders need to pay again.

Making a customer aware upfront of the places where a ticket is and isn’t valid is the very opposite of an aggressive commercial practice.

 

[thejuggler]

Just priced a couple of West Yorkshire trips with Northern and an 8 trip flexi is the cost of 7 open returns.

 

[kristiang85]

I must say I'm quite disappointed. The cost per journey of the flexi ticket for my route is more than double than what I pay for going off peak + Gold card. So looks like I'll just commute off peak then (luckily my work will be OK with that).

 

[Watershed]

no it won’t, because the seller has specifically said it won’t Be

Making a customer aware upfront of the places where a ticket is and isn’t valid is the very opposite of an aggressive commercial practice.

That's not what operators like TPE are saying:

Can a Flexi Season ticket be used on multiple operators?

Yes, the Flexi season can be used on any train operator’s services between the origin and destination on the ticket.

More fundamentally, how could a ticket to Bootle not be valid on Merseyrail?

 

[AM9]

I must say I'm quite disappointed. The cost per journey of the flexi ticket for my route is more than double than what I pay for going off peak + Gold card. ...

That's because the cost of providing capacity just for the peaks is that much more than providing an off-peak service all day. Simple economics.